Ep.66 Live, Somatic Art with Plants and Giulia Mattera

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Hello! Hello! Hello! Everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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and this is such a good episode. I have a fantastic guest for you that you’re really going to enjoy.

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And I found this guest actually on another website that I’m on. And when I saw her work. It was called Flower Bodies. I just knew I had to talk to her because that sent me to her. Instagram and her Instagram had all these amazing interspecies projects.

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So she is a live artist. She creates live art or performance, art and somatic performance. Art, in particular. Her name is Giulia Mattera.

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And what I love about what she’s doing is that she has moved the entire laboratory into the garden in order for her to go to where her collaborators are, which are, of course, all of the nonhuman world. So this is Episode 66 of live art with plants and Giulia Mattera, and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do.

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Welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla, gardenia, nature inspired mentor and leadership coach. In this podcast I share ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways in which plants can help you lead a naturally conscious life.

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Ciao, Giulia benvenuta! Welcome, welcome.

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Ciao! Thank you. So I am so looking forward to this conversation, and I already have a whole list of things I want to talk about. But before we start I’d love for you to tell people who is Giulia.

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Okay, thank you for inviting me first.st So I’m Giulia Mattera. I’m a performance artist. And specifically, I work with live arts, somatic practices related to ecology

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and the idea for humans to collaborate with non-humans.

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so to create

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experiences for the wider community towards

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alternative sustainable futures.

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You know, multi-species, futures.

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I I’m already loving it as a person who was a dancer for many years, and who.

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thanks to the last few years of working with for those in the video, the plant that I’m pointing to right now, which is no name. Dresenia has finally come back into her body. As a matter of fact, I took out. I have a bag of dance shoes.

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and I took out like my bag of dance shoes, which, of course, is all kinds of dance and performance work. And I’m like.

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Oh, I’m going to have fun with these again. So how did you get into this? How did you get into this type of performance work? And specifically with the non-human?

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So when I found out about performance art.

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I almost couldn’t believe it, because I felt like I finally came home. And

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I’ve always

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taught like use, my brain in a way that was very much thinking about performances before I actually knew it was a thing.

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So you know, what’s

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I was like? Oh, I could do this, but I didn’t know it was a performance. So when I found out it was, you know there were performances, and it was. You know, it’s an art form. I couldn’t believe it. And I was like, Okay, maybe that’s my thing.

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And then I really felt the need to align the performance practice with my beliefs.

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And

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you know.

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as I told you before, my granddad is a gardener, and I never really thought about it before the last few months.

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but that might have been an influence to me.

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And I started working, you know, trying to find ways in which I could

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create a methodology which I’m still working on, of course.

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to collaborate with the non-human through performance. So it was, you know, more things coming organically together. So I moved my artist studio in a garden.

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So this idea of how can we actually work directly with non-human

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where they are instead of bringing them inside?

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And

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you know where they would be? Well, it’s quite complicated this, because, of course, we have brought all the. You know I have plants in my home as well. So it’s like, you know

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how.

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how can we also, you know, and also the idea of the garden, or you know the allotment.

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how we want to call it in English. It’s also this idea of practically creating a different, an alternative, sustainable way

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of living in the future in the future, which is also now it’s not like a faraway, distant future. But it’s also this idea of

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foraging and growing your own food, and how this creates a very subjective relationship and experience. And I think you said the word I was going to ask you about which is relationship, because it sounds like what you started with, I mean for those of us that are not educated in the performance arts. Originally we think of performance as this thing on a stage.

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Right? You. You go. And you see people doing things on a stage. And then, just recently in the plant consciousness commentary that I do. We’ve hit a few different papers all around performance and performative arts and and other kin performance and how to bring

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plants.

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No brain is the wrong word, how to recognize plants as the performers that they are and their interactions with us as humans, so that already starts to expand. The notion that performance is not about a stage performance is about

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a kind of being while being observed, and it’s this, you know, complex piece, but that

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plants have been performers for as long as we’ve been performers, right? Because at any point plants are always around. We’ve just thought of them as decoration. And now, as we recognize their personhood, we realize that the disservice that we’re doing to the plants. And so the question becomes, How do? And I’m just assuming here, like for me, it even triggers. This curiosity of How do I

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like you said, move things out into the garden in order for me to say I’m coming to you now, like I’m recognizing that I’ve brought you into my spaces for so long.

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How do I come to you? And what comes from that performance when I come out to you? You’ve had a few really interesting performances like that, like sow ritual that was literally in the woods. Can you tell us a little bit more about where that came from, and what it even is?

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Yes, and also thank you for this. You know, for sharing this idea behind performance. Because I some I mean most of the times. I use the the word live art, because it makes it clear that it’s not. You know. It’s part of the performing arts. But it’s not staged.

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So what I’m interested in is creating this setting and then going into it without knowing what could happen. Of course I have to think what might happen and have to be prepared. But there is especially the interaction with the participants which I don’t really like to call audience, but participants.

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whether than being human or non-human.

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So, for example in the performance. So ritual I was. Yes, I was living in the woods, so it was a part of a series of performances for the change of season.

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and it was for the beginning of summer.

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So the summer sauce is.

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and I was invited in this residency called Polynadia, which is an amazing place in the woods in Abruzzo region in Italy.

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and I started thinking about, and I had, you know, I was asked to work with soil

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and with the soil and metal knowledge. You know, it’s like.

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okay, how so? The the sun and the solstice and I started thinking about all these ritualistic ways of dealing with this with the change of season. So the

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there is a lot of

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knowledge that we’re losing about traditional ways of

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celebrating the change of seasons

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which might help, you know, contemporary people very much as well, because we’re still part of this of this universe.

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And I believe we need to come back to this idea of being part of a bigger network, an ecosystem.

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So so Rachel was this, I was in the woods, basically without a watch, without speaking for 3 days.

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and the participants could join me in the woods through a walk. It wasn’t an Ike. I wouldn’t say it’s a they were hiking. It was more a walk in the woods, like 3 4 kilometers walking

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from the starting point of the Residency.

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and they were giving this map.

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and the map was

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was made out of drawings

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and numbers. So I made these drawings of plants. So it’s also of plants, or like there was a fence in the drawing.

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And the funny thing, there is a funny thing. So there was this field of grain, and I was working with Harriet. That is an artist. But she was working at the Residency at the time.

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and we were like, Okay, you know, you get to walk through this field of grain, so you cannot miss it. It’s huge, it’s massive. You just see it. So we were going for this walk and trying to pinpoint. So I was going up and down every day walking

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these 4 kilometers to the site of the performance, and I was trying to

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pinpoint, which might have been the the main things to see and recognize.

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So I’m like, you cannot miss the the field of rain. It’s it’s big.

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And then, the day before the performance, we didn’t even know it was part of the, you know, the field was part of the

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of the Residency area. So it was. It wasn’t like it was someone else’s property. But we? We hadn’t thought about the fact that it was the season in which they might have cut the grain.

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So the day before the performance we have printed all the maps, and we go there, and there’s no field of pray.

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So also this idea of working with the changes and how the so-called landscape and our environment changes and how we make it, we interact with it. As humans. You know, we’re using that plants in a way, most of the times it’s using is not there? Is not this idea of respect also towards the food we eat the plants specifically, you know, or like, you know, animals, whatever type of diet we follow.

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So yes, this idea of how can we

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start from a

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Silent, but not in a way of lack of communication, but lack of human language communication.

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so alternative ways of communicating, which we already do very much with our bodies and create these new rituals. So I was inviting people in this area

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in in this space and sharing with them what I saw

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that was, you know, very much related to the non-human, because I was living there, and mainly was, you know, non-humans.

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And you know, plants, various animals

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moving around. Yeah, really, we’ve completely lost our ability to not our ability, our sensitivity to what’s going on in the world around us. And not only that, I think it’s it’s funny. It’s a funny story about, you know, cutting down the grain, and it’s also so indicative of

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the fact that we’re so disconnected from the seasons that we don’t instinctively know. Well, of course, there’s not going to be grain there at that time of the year, because at that time of the year the grain is going to be cut. It’s going to be harvest. There’s going to be all this other stuff that’s happening. But where in other cultures and in other time periods, it would have been just an instinctual part of ourselves, our recognition, and our comfort, and our connection with these beings.

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that it would have been obvious to know. Well, of course, grain is not going to be there. Neither wheat nor Amarinth, or whatever it was, is not going to be sitting there waiting for us at this time of year, because at this time of year they’re already gone. They’ve already moved on to other things and to other phases of their own life.

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So I think that it’s actually kind of a beautiful

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example of the reason why these types of performances are so important to remind us of our like to retrigger that connection that we’re sort of lost.

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Did you find? How did you find that the participants reacted like, how did they interact with you? And more importantly, for me, what I’m super curious is, after those days in the woods. No watch, no distractions. You’re sitting there, and it wasn’t exactly camping. You literally had kind of you were there, you were in it.

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What? What was that like? Like? What changed in you from that realization?

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Well, what stayed with me from

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the participants. Experience was that when 1 1 thing was that some people couldn’t even recognize the plans.

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So it’s also, you know how we’re not used to look around us, and one of them was Ievis, and we we can also see it in cities. It’s not, you know, a plant that we don’t see every day or every day, or like often

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And how you know some people couldn’t recognize a cherry tree, and we do eat like the majority of us have cherries, you know. It’s not a given, but

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it’s something that most of people in this part of the world would know.

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So how you know, we have to retrain ourselves to look.

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and only other people. But I have to do it myself. It’s not like I’m trying to teach people what to do. Am I losing also this ability of actually looking around me and seeing.

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and then something that I find always fascinating, especially with, you know.

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nonverbal interactions

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is how we are losing that intimate space.

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and mainly that intimate space is seen as something that is part of a romantic relationship. Not only, like, you know, a relationship with relatives, but more, you know, romantic, and which I find a pity because it can be such a rich space to explore. And it doesn’t necessarily mean there is a romantic aspect, or you know, that type of

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aspect. So how people felt like they were opening up, or like they were really touched by something that they were experiencing. And I also think this is not only, you know, because I have, who knows what ability in performing, but it’s also because after you walk for some time and you’re not used to walk on a type of

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you know you’re not on a pavement. You’re not. You’re not on. You’re you’re not in this human build type of road, but you’re walking. And you’re feeling the different textures underneath your feet.

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And I was asking people to walk in a silence.

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So it’s also like, you know, you’re walking. And you’re trying to read the

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their environment around you. So you already arrived to the performing sites, that you have changed something in your perception or in your presence. So people, I guess they were more present, especially, you know it was summer, so it was pretty warm. It wasn’t extremely hot, and you know how it could be in other cities in the big cities, but it was warm. So there is also that idea of the body being there, you know, the physical body being there differently more aware.

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So yes, my experience. On the other hand, it was. It was beautiful. I didn’t really want to leave, you know. I felt like it wasn’t enough time there. And I was sleeping in this wine barrel

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because the Residency also has a winery. So we were like, how can we

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find a way to sleep there that doesn’t feel like imposing a space for a human to sleep.

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So

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I had made this altar, and I was like, I really feel like, I want to stay longer and experience this longer, and after a few days, you know, sometimes I would. You know I was raised in the city and in a big city. So when I see a mouse I’m not like

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I’m very happy. You like most of us, you know, there is this also this cultural rejection towards mice.

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But I was so happy when they were walking really close to me, and I could recognize their pathways. So there is also this idea, or like there was this.

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So I was leaping. So this is also interesting. How I found the site because I was walking in this. So the Residency has a huge area of, you know, that is part of the Residency in the woods.

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and I was walking there and looking for a site, because I really wanted to be outdoors.

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and because that’s usually how I work.

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And then I find myself

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underneath this big oak tree.

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And I’m like.

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Wow, you know, when you feel the energy. I didn’t know anything about it, but there is

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a long story behind that point. So this big oak tree

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has been the

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dividing point

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for centuries, dividing 3 different

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towns.

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And there are stories behind it. So basically, there is this story. And people are like, it’s a story. It doesn’t even feel real anymore

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about this man that used to live in the woods, and he used to gather water, for from this

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small water stream that’s where I was as well, there is near the oak tree

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and a

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and then there was this story about river crabs

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which I’d never seen before.

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and everyone’s saying, you know, they got extinct. They’re not there anymore.

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And then I actually saw them. So spending 3 days there. And you know, sometimes I was just still, I wasn’t. You know, I wasn’t doing any much movement, so maybe they felt free to come out.

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And I was so surprised I was like, so they’re still here.

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So also this fact of being in a space and just being there.

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which I, you know, going slow.

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without much

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need to do anything else. I think it’s something that stayed with me, and I wish I could allow myself to do more even on my daily life.

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Yeah, that whole allow ourselves is such an important perspective. And I love how how? It’s almost like

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the creatures of the forest, the beings of the forest they show themselves to us, they become.

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It’s interesting because you think that after time

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we tend to have this false impression that our eyes sort of start to blend everything together. But it’s opposite, right as the longer we’re there, the sharper everything comes into focus, the more clearly you can see the individualization. You can see all the little tiny details, and you start to recognize

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all of the differences around you, and including, like you, said, the different beings that are around you, that probably were there all along in some way, and we just weren’t able to recognize them because our sensitivity has been dulled

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over of by neglect. Really, because it’s it’s nothing biological or physiological. It’s completely neglect. We don’t allow ourselves to do that. And I think that that’s really powerful for performances like this to remind us.

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That’s, you know for you yourself, but also in the participants that come to experience this type of performance. It’s almost like an accelerated way for you to say, Hey, there’s a different way for you to live right. There’s a different way for you to do things.

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and to give yourself a little bit of permission, because not. Everybody feels so brave to be able to do that. They don’t have the courage anymore to kind of go off and spend 3 days in the woods in that same way, but I think by peeking into it it opens you to the possibilities that maybe I could do something. Maybe it’s not exactly go 3 days in the woods, but maybe it’s finding a sit spot

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near where I live, where, like you said, I can slow down, for I don’t know an hour, a day, or or even an hour a week, and I can just sit there and start to observe and see these types of things, which is an extremely big connection with plants, with animals, with nature in general, with my own nature inside of me. It’s like almost I feel when I sit there that at some point

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almost like the

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I don’t want to say my humanness, but my human protectiveness fades away.

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and all of a sudden I feel much more open to

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allowing all the different parts of myself, my humanness, my animalness, my plantness, to allowing them to come out, but in a way that feels

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like there’s not these dividers between them. But more of this flow that happens.

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Yes, definitely. And what you’re saying speaks to me because I don’t see myself. You know, I like the idea of live art and performance art, because I feel like, in a way, I’m a participant as well. You know, I’m facilitating this experience. But I’m participating. So it’s a collective experience. And I think.

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before performing in, you know, creating the performance, I think

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what I would like to see and experience. And

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I sort of give myself a pep talk in a way and be like, Okay, but I can start doing this.

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and maybe other people wouldn’t feel like putting themselves in similar situations. But I’m happy to do it as a way of, you know.

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making. See that it’s possible to do. Alternative, you know, to perceive reality and what we we live in, what goes through us in alternative ways. So I definitely see myself more.

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You know, I see the role of the performance. Art is a as a facilitator. I totally see that I mean as a person who loves art. I go to as much as many art, events, and art experiences as possible from in any setting I can get to. And one of the things I do love is performance, art and installation, art, things that are, I mean things that really push the envelope of the way that I think.

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And I and I do think that a lot of that is already the fact that you can conceive that is already the collaboration you have with nature, with with other kin, because it’s I find, especially that that collaboration. It’s almost like it starts to open the door to the unusual, to the, to the non-

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codified in the human language or the human paradigm type of thing that it’s almost like those whispers and that collaboration that comes when you spend a lot of time with nature. So I’m sure that that experience even triggered ideas for new experiences.

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What? What other types of projects do you feel like have been

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a continuation of that kind of work.

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well, I guess every performance sort of stays with me

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and

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triggers other ideas.

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But definitely the.

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It’s sort of

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remarked this need of doing durational performances, because I really feel that.

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you know, submerging yourself in a

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intense situation for a prolonged time.

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definitely shifts

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perceptive ways of seeing, and makes

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me, as a facilitator.

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more able to open gates for participants, other participants to then experience something similar.

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So if I’m completely there, it means, you know. Sometimes I feel like losing my mind after a few days, because, of course, I don’t speak. I don’t have a watch. I have to understand how time

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passes without any type of device

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that I might have around me like I wash. You know, my laptop.

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Then I can check the time of my laptop

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song.

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maybe like something that came out as I was telling you, is also this performance called Oracleo. So the oracle and this idea of

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new rituals. But I don’t know. I don’t really like too much the word new. It’s more like, you know.

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I don’t know. I have to get my head around what word works best without that is not new, because it feels like, you know, we always

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create everything from something that is already there. So it’s more more like a remodeling of something.

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But this idea of contemporary rituals.

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So some, like.

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you know.

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capitalist societies has demonized this idea of rituals, and I feel like we’re so much needed. And in a way, we are

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already in touch with types of rituals, even though we might not call them like that. You know whatever type of ceremony that is related to religion. Most of the times has been stolen from other ritualistic cultures.

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So this idea of creating new rituals, but also finding.

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So, for example, in the in the performance oracle is, how can we look

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at our

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environment, but also, like, you know, ask a question, and finding an answer. So I’m like, you know, again, I’m this facilitator

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putting people in in this situation where they have to pick a card, and then the card is related to a movement or something else that we might do together.

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and every card is related to a planet. And so the movement of the planet, and in a plant. So there is a card that is related to Rosemary, and again, how some plants, for example.

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no Basil, are taught to

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be able to stimulate memory. So how can we actually come back to these things that feel like, you know, just talks? And how can we experience them again to our subjective experience.

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So

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again, I’m facilitating this process. So it’s like, is the participant picking the card. So it’s them choosing in a way, but without the rational mind, because they’re not seeing what’s underneath the card.

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So again, it’s like, I’m not giving them any type of

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straightforward response. But it’s more like, okay, let’s look in a playful way

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at what happens around us.

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In order also to be more conscious of what type of answer we might give inside us.

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So it’s it’s, you know. I see performance as a playful way of

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of living, and how you know

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something. I really feel like, you know, we should all be more playful in our daily lives in general, beyond, you know, performance. I don’t see performance as something

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separated from daily life. On the contrary, it’s very much, you know. There is no way of faking it, because I couldn’t fake, you know, after being days in a very intense situation, I’m not able to fake anything, and that’s maybe what I like.

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Oh, my goodness, there is just so much here. I want to unpack. But 1st I want to share a message from one of our eco-conscious business partners.

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The 1st time I connected with a plant and actually received a response I got chills.

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It is such an invigorating sensation when you break through like that and realize just how connected we are, and that we are nature

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as a nature inspired mentor. Myself, I was super excited to stumble upon the shift network and its mission to empower a global network of evolutionary change. Agents

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talk about my kind of movement. There are so many inspiring thought leaders, healers, empaths, and other visionaries, all under one roof, each with an individual and collective mission to help you reawaken and co-create a just and prosperous world.

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So yeah, I can totally see that. I mean, I think you touched on a lot of topics there that I think especially they fit into the Dominurian philosophy of play. For example, as the way we experiment. And I mean, this is what we see in nature. Right? We see it from animal, whether it’s wolf cubs that are

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playing are fox cubs that are playing around together, and they’re playing in order for them to understand their strength and the boundaries and for them to kind of interact. And so play in the natural world. We see it even with sunflowers, right? As they’re coming up. They’re all moving in these ways, interacting one with the other. They’re literally kind of playing with one another again, to socialize, to understand boundaries.

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to see how the space moves, to learn to stretch yourself. I mean the idea of play, which has been pretty much lost in most of our human society other than children are allowed to play. You’re allowed to play organized sports, but the idea of just, General, let me get together and play around.

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We almost call it. We dismiss it like, oh, that’s you know this thing you do when you don’t want to be an adult, or when you don’t want to, whatever.

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when in reality play, is such an important aspect of our society at Dominic we use play actively in so many different scenarios, so that we can grow and stretch and do it in a way that is safe, because the other thing about playing is that

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you might fall down and scrape your knee. You might get an answer wrong in a game, and all of that is fine, because that’s how we learn, too right? We learn even through making our mistakes. So by creating that energy of play, it also gives us a permission to try things outside of our norm, even if they won’t work, and to learn from the way they work and the way that they don’t work also. And I think that when you’re talking about a relationship like interspecies

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relationship, this play becomes even more important because other species, you see them interacting between the species where we as humans might do it with a domesticated dog or a domesticated cat. But we don’t really give ourselves permission to play with other kinds of species, with other plants and animals in a way that helps us get all that benefit out of it.

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And so I think that something like that, any kind of performance that encourages you to

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to play, to risk to, you know, to dare to do it to Osare, you know. To like move in those directions could be extremely powerful to again give us permission to do things that we don’t allow ourselves to do in day to day life.

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Yes, and I also think you know, it’s beautiful, the example of the sunflower.

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because.

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you know, different plants have different ways and times of moving. And, let’s say, growing, you know, changing.

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and also how I believe this is a

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beautiful teaching that we we can embrace as humans on how we we’re all different. And it’s not just, you know a way of saying we all have different times.

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For example, you know some friends of mine

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really like to joke about the fact that I am. I’m slow. It’s not slowing that I do like doing things slowly.

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And I’m like, why not? You know we we cherish the fact that they might really like to go fast. And I really like to go slow. It’s not an issue. It’s more like, we’re different. And

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plants on. These are amazing teachers, and you know the fact of you know the sunflower all almost feels playful. You know this idea of moving

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and following the sun. It feels very playful, you know, from my perspective, or you know it feels like, okay. Their movement is much faster than other plants, you know. It feels like they never move, and you’re like you look at them for years, and they’re very slow

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at changing in the way of growing. But then maybe they’re stronger. You know that they’re they have stronger roots. So also this idea of cherishing the difference, and also respecting

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different ways of being starting from our ways of being.

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And I guess this

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multi-species way of living can really

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give new insights on

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on, you know, new human experience. Yeah. And and that always goes back to I mean relation to plants. It goes back to also that that observation, that giving yourself permission to observe that being present which is a part of your plantness, of your of your inner plantness. That, I think, is so important that that plants really help us embody is

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that slowness doesn’t mean stillness, and it also doesn’t mean not playfulness and seriousness, like I have diplodenia, which is, you know, the rock trumpet. I have a plant that’s growing up high, and I created these chains that go up to the wall, up to the roof, I mean up to the roof, up to the ceiling.

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so that the plant so that this plant can can grow and move, and he is hysterical to me during the day, because the way that you know, every time I look up the

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the vines are in different locations. I can see that there’s this experimentation with, how do I hook into this this chain that you’ve created? And I keep telling.

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I said. You have all that area. All I ask you is, do not go to the curtains. So every once in a while I look up, and there’s like a vine that’s near the curtain, and I’m always looking at deep learning, and I’m going no no curtain, and an hour later I look up, and the vine’s going in another direction, and it’s like the child like the mother and the child going. No, don’t do that.

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and diploma is like fine. I’m not going to moving, you know. I’m moving into another direction. And it really feels like this playful game that we’re having, where I’m giving you space to explore. You’re teaching me movement, and and that how you play through this. And yet there’s rules, you know. There’s there’s some boundaries, and I’m like this area is yours, but not that.

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And I really find that for me it’s changed the way that you know I experience. I love all the plants that live with me for exactly that. I get to see all their minute changes and their minute differences. And there is a rituality, I think, going back to what you were talking about with the oracle. I think we don’t recognize, you know, our ritual aspects

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call them habits in some cases, because we don’t give them the sacredness that they deserve. And so I think that anything that brings that back we in Dom and her have the way of the oracle and the way of the oracle is for us a modern day oracle connected to divine forces.

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and this modern day oracle on a regular basis. The people that are part of this way connect into the divine forces, and they have a whole series of rituality that they carry out both as propitiation of helping and being in service to the divine forces, and at the same time

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collaborating with the divine sources to bring information and knowledge and movement down into the human sphere

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that concludes every month with the ritual of the oracle, which is the full moon ritual that we carry out here publicly, and it’s fascinating. I’m not in the way of the oracle. I am a knight, so I am in the way of the knights, but it is fascinating to me to watch this connection to the divine forces, and that has

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created this rituality that we carry out. And then it’s helped us see the rituality, because how it gets carried out across all the different aspects of our lives, and I do think that with other kin we have the possibility of creating a rituality that is different than what we do for ourselves. Right? Like you said, it’s based on

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meanings and interpretations, but then also on relationship in different ways. And I find that what happens is, you know, many people start with the idea of generic

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common definitions or understandings of plants, for example, and then, once you get to know a specific plant of that species.

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You start to see the unique pieces that that plant embodies, and then I can take that. And I can be like. Oh, I move this over here, and I can see now how that relates to many different things in my life where I’ve given them a generic meaning.

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but I have to remember that there is that each individual is an individual, and that I create both generic rituals that carry out an overall idea or process or stereotype for lack of a better word, although that usually has a negative connotation.

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And then I have personalized rituals that are with how how I interact specifically with another being or another incarnation of that. I don’t know if that was clear, but it’s like in my mind. It makes sense that it does. The formula gives that

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again, it helps us see it outside. And just the same as we say, community are so important. The mirrors are so important, because when I watch something, I can just imagine myself watching, even just looking through your Instagram and looking through your website as I saw some of the different pieces and the little videos and such it helped

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as a mirror. I could feel things resonating in me and being like, Oh, I want to look deeper into that, because that’s resonating.

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And this over here is scary. What does that mean for me?

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And wow! This over here opened a dialogue to something I had never even imagined, and I think that when it comes to other kin this is the power of the performance. Space, right like you said that live art and art in general, but especially live art, is that it gives us opportunities to find what’s safe for us. Now, what’s not understood, what I never imagined. How do I interact with that in different ways?

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Yes, and also

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well, I have so many thoughts now from what you were saying, but

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well, definitely, especially with plants. You know

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it’s beautiful. How if you have the same species of plant as you were saying, then.

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every specific plant.

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it’s an individual. And how can we learn from that? Again? It’s like, you know, how can we change our perspective be beyond going?

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I mean going beyond this binary vision of something that is playful, then, is lack of responsibility. And how can it can actually be both? And it can be new ways in a 3rd and 4, th 5th way of seeing and perceiving that is not binary.

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So I guess also these.

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you know, being aware of

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non-human kins. So you know kings that are other from the ones that we are. We usually call kings in, you know, or maybe not, usually because and a lot of people are changing their perspective on this.

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which is wonderful.

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And you know it’s encouraging to us what we’re both doing.

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so yes, I think it’s, you know. Also this idea of finding giving us permission to find

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sacredness in daily rituals and habits. It’s not, you know, something can be sacred, even, you know, having a cup of coffee can be a sacred ritual. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it has to be. Maybe there is this idea of sacredness as

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being something detached or something formal.

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So how can we come back to making it?

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Something that we feel is around? So how can it be something that we are?

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We feel comfortable doing. Yeah, I like that. You said that that sacredness doesn’t have to be formal. I do think it’s a completely different thing. I mean, yes, it can be, but it also can be very either easy, it can even be playful. I wake up every morning, and right to the right of me is peace. Lily is a peace lily that lives with me, and Peace Lily is my morning ritual from the perspective of the 1st thing

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I pretty much. See when I open my eyes and I say good morning to and to me it is a sacred ritual of the way we interact in the morning there is a very conscious over time has become a very conscious awareness of the fact that

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Ki is the first, st you know person that I say hello to every single morning, regardless of what’s going on around me. And you know Ki is the 1st person I say hello to, and not just say hello to. I listen like I.

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And there are other plants that live with me, and you know there’s other beings in the house. But the 1st person that I feel the need to interact with in the morning is peace, Lily.

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and to sit and listen for a second. So it reminds me not to just jump out of bed. But to give Peace Lily a chance to respond back to me and tell me you know, how are you and get that interaction, and that always just starts the day different. And then, of course, there’s all kinds of rituals from sitting with my tea to different things that I do in my own self-care and all of these different rituals. But I think it’s important for us to recognize

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that we’re not the only ones involved in the ritual.

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Formal, formal rituals, like you said, can have, you know, divine forces, and they can have all this. But even in formal ones, is that you know rituals in and of themselves are inter species.

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Yes, and I believe we lost this a bit with, you know, a bit, a lot with capitalism, or you know, in the, in the structure that capitalism has given to

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daily lives of the majority of you know people in the West.

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And you know, we talk a lot. You know. There is a lot of talk around indigenous knowledge on plants. And then I’ve been thinking.

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you know, also, like talking to my grandad, that he’s 90. I’m like

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he has so much indigenous knowledge without the need of going to another continent. There is already indigenous knowledge so deeply

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rooted in our culture. In Italy, for example, you know, in Europe or in general, that is, there is no need of cultural appropriation from anyone else. But it’s like, how can we go back to that and not lose it? Because, of course, it gets lost.

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For example, I’ve been interviewing people that are working with

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growing food in their gardens related to the moon faces.

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So again, that is sort of ritual. How can we be in in the rhythm, you know, in the in the rhythm of the universe without trying to get away from it.

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But allowing ourselves, you know the the new moon, you know the new moon is going to be in a couple of days in like 4 days, but you know it’s in a in a few days, a few days. Yes.

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and you know, how do we train ourselves to notice the change of energy

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that it doesn’t need to be something that is spiritualistic or new age, or something that feels like, you know.

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negative connotations. But it’s just how our body changes, you know. And also this idea of

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going back to being aware of plants around us, and what you were saying with your tea and sitting with your tea is also the idea of intuitive eating.

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and what plans speak to me in a specific moment, or like in a specific week.

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and or like month. And how that changes because we are changing together, or like

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in the present of some plants.

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For example, you, you know there are some plants that are used in some

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phytotherapic Methodists that are

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related to being calmer, and how, when you are, for example, with How is it called in English? Birch birches are like very much related, you know. So with some type of remedies they’re like, you know they keep you grounded or like, you know, more present.

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and how like I’ve noticed myself when I go in. You know I was in Finland for some time, and I was surrounded by birches. And I was like, how is my body changing? Because in this environment there is so much of this plant this tree.

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So also, being aware of

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how the how

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the the plants around us are changing our. You know how the the movement of our fluids in our bodies of our thoughts.

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And it’s not something. What I find a pity is that there is still this negative idea of, you know being New age or Hippy about being connected to plants and

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rituals. But it’s something so present in our lives that we are not recognizing. But it’s going on, even if we don’t see it, it’s actually going on. So, being aware of all this.

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faces and cycles would just make human lives much easier for us.

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So it’s how can.

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of course, going away from an anthropocentric perspective. But still, how?

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How this

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being in a

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multi-species interspecies.

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awareness would actually benefit be beneficial for humans as well. You’re touching on all the elements that I love so much because I do. We have forgotten that we are nature. And so then, of course, we are part of those cycles. We are part of those rhythms, and we resonate like you said, with the beings around us, we adapt to our environment. So it makes sense that when you’re in a field

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we’re living immersed with a bunch of birches, you act very differently than when you are immersed in. You know, an oak grove. Our bodies react differently because we are part of that natural environment, and the environment is constantly being created by the elements that are there and the elements that are there are constantly creating the environment. It’s this

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synergistic response that comes back and forth. And so, like you said, it’s

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it’s fundamental for us to find our point of happiness and our point of calm, and our point of resilience and adaptability for us to re-recognize, to reawaken

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to the fact that we are nature, and and I love that I love doing. I love working with plants on this, because I find that plants

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are because their presence.

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and because there is a sense of calm already it almost, and the sense of protection of being around in a protected space, and the nourishment that comes like I find I have a little balcony, and I love looking around at who is arriving

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in this balcony right now. I have wood sorrels that just arrived, and I love that they’re just spontaneously growing. And I’m like, Oh, this is what I need to eat right now. Where last year. I remember when I recognized that purslane was growing, and all of a sudden I had all this purslane. Who’s not there now? Nothing has changed in the balcony right? But purslane is not what my body needs right now.

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not what we need in this area. I just did an episode where I have this spirit wild plant like quiz a quiz to help you identify. What’s your spirit, wild plant? In this moment?

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And for a while Cattail was coming in, really strong for people. Lots of people were getting

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cattail lots of the participants. And now it’s chickweed, and it really feels like chickweed’s trying to tell us. Hey, this is what we need like right now, I want to give you these characteristics. It’s a great episode to kind of get a better understanding, because it took me a while to realize it.

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And so I love that you’re talking about how that immersion that happens. And again going back to the performance, the performance gives us a glimpse into what’s possible. It helps us expand our minds to what it means, or to observe it, and feel what resonates in me, and then, at the same time, it also gives me permission to say, Oh, if somebody else is doing it, then I can do it, and this is why I feel like this work that you’re doing is so important for us to be able to see that

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I have a feeling that we could talk forever like and ever and ever, because I didn’t even get to the original way I found you was through this project. You have flower bodies which I’m going to link, anyway, because I think it’s really beautiful. And this other one plant trafficking that I thought was so ingenious

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and so creative in the way that you worked on this. And so I’m going to make sure I link to your social media and to your website so that people can find you, and can see when you’re doing new live art and moving on, and so they can maybe participate in some of them.

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Where for you is the horizon on the future. So tell us where you’re going. What’s the next horizon for you?

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So well, I’m

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I’m trying, you know, to create this methodology, as I’ve said to collaborate with non-human

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through the lady’s idea of

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see in the garden as the artist studio. So what I’m doing

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in the close future is that I’m doing this Phd research on that is a very practical artistic research on

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on this idea of creating methodology for human and human collaboration through somatic practices of live art.

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And so there will be more shared on this, of course, also well, at the end of the of the doctoral studies, but also through the whole process. But then, what I’m doing.

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I’m also

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finally, because it’s something I’ve been researching for some time making this performance in Prague

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next year on plants and sleep. So what’s the dialogue of between plants and sleep? So it’s, you know. We go through similar

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rhythms, and there is a dialogue, of course, the plants that the maybe most known plant is chamomile. You get some chamomile for sleep, but of course there are so many more for me like it works best with passive flora. But it’s you know, it’s again. It’s very personal.

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So that is going to be a collective ritual on

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on how to find ways of sleeping with plants in a way.

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and how we die. There is a dialogue, so how the human body affects the plant, and you know, being close to a plant while sleeping.

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So that will happen next year, and I don’t know. Maybe flower bodies with will continue. You know, it’s this illustration series, what you mentioned before.

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Where I’m sharing how I actually see the plant, because it’s that’s you know, there was very. There is a personal way of how I perceive specific plants, or

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my imagination runs wild when seeing the plant. Maybe

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so, I guess they will continue, you know, being new plants that I will draw as part of that illustration. Fantastic! I love it. I love it all. I will make sure that I include everything about what you just talked about in the show notes so that people can find your Instagram, and they can find your website. And they can see where it is that you’re going to be.

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Thank you so much, Giulia. This has been really an amazing conversation, and I’m sure I’m going to bring you back in the future when we can hear about some of more of these projects. Because, again, I say, I think that as this plant reawakening is happening, you said that there’s a lot more people you said it earlier, that a lot more people that are starting to really feel this connection that are starting to recognize that this is an important aspect of their lives.

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and I think we need many different ways of showing them. And at the same time I feel that the work that you do is again remembering helping us. Remember that plants are people, too, that all of the beings that you work with are people, too, and these persons

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want to be a part of these performances. They also are creative and playful and joyful beings that want to share the space with us, and I love that there is more and more

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movement in this direction, and the fact that it is movement like, I think it is somatic, based because it gets us out of our words. It gets us out of our thoughts, and it helps us create a new paradigm based on these interactions that are happening without having to define it too early. So I really love what you’re doing, and thank you so much for sharing it with us here.

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Well, thank you for having me, and I look forward to have new chats together in the future. Wonderful! Tell me you didn’t love that as much as I did. Wasn’t that an amazing conversation with Giulia? I love the art that she’s creating? I love the interspeeseness aspect of it, and more than anything, I love the fact that she is looking at other kin.

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whether it’s plants or animals, or any of the other species, and physical and non-physical around her, to really as collaborators as part of what is coming out. I absolutely love this. I’ve been posting more about performance art. And you’ve also been seeing in the plant consciousness commentary that I’ve been doing, especially in the naturally conscious community. I mean, the naturally conscious community is really the place to have these types of conversations.

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and we are in the middle also of a big project as a community of those of us that are part of the writing group as well as in the Book Club we’re rewriting.

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We’re rewriting a modern myth, and this is very connected to what you know. Giulia is doing. So Giulia is doing it through somatic live art. But we have another aspect that we’re doing it in the per, in the concept of how it is that we’re using mythology for this and this.

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And so these are the reasons why we want you in the naturally conscious community. We want you in blooming sprouts and in seedling sprouts, so that you can participate in these conversations. So head on over there. The links are all in the show notes, and I’m looking forward to seeing you next week for our next episode. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. This is me Tigrilla Gardenia. I’m out.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. Intro on Outro Music, by Steve Shuli and poinsettia from the singing Life of Plants. So join me. Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators next time on reconnect with plant wisdom.