Ep.68 PLart Project with Antonio Irre

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Hello! Hello! Hello! Everyone! Welcome back to another episode of ReConnect with Plant Wisdom. It’s me Tigrilla Gardenia, and I am delighted to be able to share this conversation. I am having

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so much fun finding all of these interspecies artists that are mixing plant communication, and, you know, plant experiences and plant cognition into the performance space. So they are researchers as well as artists.

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And that’s exactly what you’re going to find in this episode with Antonio Irre. And we just had a fascinating conversation about his research and his path. And then also where he is today and the different projects that he’s working on. So I really think you’re going to enjoy this plus. He gave us access to a few snippets of his work, which are so fun, so fun. But I’ll let you discover it yourself. So please enjoy. Episode 68

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plart project with Antonio Irre

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welcome to ReConnect with Plant Wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia. Nature inspired mentor and leadership coach. In this podcast I share ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways in which plants can help you lead a naturally conscious life.

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Antonio, I am really looking forward to this conversation right before we started recording, I was saying how lots of people asked me, since I live in Davenport, which is in Italy. If I do things in Italy and outside of Dominic, to be honest and biomimicry, Italia, which I do participate in when we do things occasionally.

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I very rarely, if ever, work in Italy. And now I have you and Julia, and I’m so excited to hear about the work that you are doing. So before we start. Please tell everybody who is Antonio.

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Okay, ciao tutti atuta. Hello, everybody. And thanks to Tigrilla for this kind invitation to talk a little bit about plans and our relationship with them, and how we are trying to do step-by-step, a path towards bigger knowledge. I mean, this is what I’m doing. I’m Antonio Irre.

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I’m an artist, a independent researcher and a cultural designer.

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I’m also a pharmaceutical chemist inventor, and some other things. So that’s that’s my point. I try to check reality from different points of view, and starting from there, I try to

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to make another step. Hi, how? Where? Where did the connection to plants come in?

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Okay, it’s a long story. I tried to make it short because it’s a 44 years of research. I mean, probably when I was starting working, I started thinking about where I am. And so

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so I started studying, and I ended up studying pharmaceutical chemistry that puts together biology and chemistry to start reasoning about who we are.

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And then I go, I went on, and

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I started also with arts to try to figure out the work

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1st with music, and then I discovered the theater

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and performance.

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and then I tried to put 2 things together, so I studied mastering cognitive science and interactive media

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and where I basically studied the interaction between agents.

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So this is my, my, my theory, my theoretical basis. So basically who we are.

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we are a bunch of cells. That’s the point. And so somehow, through

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stigmergy, that means the interaction of words with my favorite concepts. Nobody ever talks about stigmergy. Go ahead. Yeah. So I will send you. I understand it. So stigmo G is a behavior of for example, his worms.

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They do very simple actions, but they are able to create a very complex behavior out of that.

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So stigma G is like working on the little clue that we have around us.

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that all these clues together allows us to to step on a different level.

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and so studying agents, and how they interact. They study cooperation countries. But

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basically, I ended up figuring out that we are.

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We are a bunch of cells that are adapting and integrating with the with the with the rest of the world.

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And then I said, Okay.

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but also, plants are a bunch of cells. So wait a moment. Why are so different

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where we are not so different at the end.

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We, of course, some millions of years ago, maybe 400 million. So

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something about

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we have we decided to go to 2 different paths

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because we were all coming from the same way. And then there was a differentation. So plants decided to to stay

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to development.

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Okay, decide, then we will speak about. But let’s say, decide for the moment to stay.

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They created this kind of cooperation with the chloroplast. They were able to

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to do photosynthesis to probably incorporating another cell

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period

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while animals decided to move.

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So they incorporated these other

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microorganism created mitochondria.

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So they have 2 different ways of creating their own energy.

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of transforming the energy and

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to their needs.

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and, of course, to mainly

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strategies. One fails, the other fight or flight. They say so either fight or they can.

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You can just escape in case of emergency.

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Not actually, we are really the a bunch of cells. So we have the same network transmitters. So really, really similar pathways, biological pathways.

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So I say, okay, so in this case, we can also communicate.

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And that was the 1st step I reached, and then the plant awakening began. Exactly. Exactly.

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Because yes, if you can, if you if you

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can also only think that there is a possibility to communicate with friends.

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then your point of view completely changes.

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And so this was the beginning. I

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started after this glimpse. I say, Oh, maybe I can bring to other people this reasoning, and I can do that through through art. That is my main way of expression.

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So I started

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thinking which kind of work I can develop from that.

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And the 1st work was an installation

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I did for a small town here in in Italy.

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and because I say, Okay, we can

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communicate with plants. But

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what do I ask to plants? I mean what I have to say to plants. I’m not really a very, very expert in communication. I’m not very talkative person. So I

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I didn’t really have a clear question or clear argument to have with them. So I started creating this installation around the city to different trees, plants around the city.

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and where people can leave messages

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for the plans.

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And that was interesting, because the my plan was to to go and check the missed messages, but after I read a couple of them.

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after they were so personal between the person and the plant

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that I really felt. I was not kind of authorized to read that to me. So at the end I just left for the plant, and I didn’t read that anymore.

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But it was a nice tribe, let’s say. And

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then I got this, and I started writing poetry, and I also did a lot of research of what other people other artists

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did in this direction.

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and I found a couple of

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books of texts that were really saying what I wanted to say, but better probably, than me. One was the metamorphosis of plants by Gator

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and another one was Palomar, by Italo Calvino and I started from a chapter where he speaks about bad weed.

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What are good widths, what are bad widths? And where is the line that separate them?

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And

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And so I started from these 2 texts and some other

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text that I wrote.

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and the 1st show was was born.

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The recorder is the infinite needle.

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And

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yeah, this was developing a site-specific project. This was born under a

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probably 5,000 all the years oak tree.

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So it’s a traveling nature show

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where I kind of

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organize a traveling tour for my guests like an agency of touring, and where really the tour is, you know, in the middle of Mr. Palomar and experiencing what it’s in this in this middle.

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And this is the 1st attempt I did to to bring the message to.

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I’m going to stop you for a second, just because you’ve already done so many things that I want to go back.

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And we’re going to have a conversation on stigmergy. Just so, you know the very 1st biomimicry project that I ever worked on, and in this case it was more of like classroom work. But one of the properties we were using was stigmergy. Because it was so. I realized, as I was learning more about stigmergy, how Dom and her, the temples of humankind were built with stigmergy

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like so many places. We didn’t know what anybody else was doing, but we knew there was an overall project. Every person did their piece. And there’s very much this, an almost stigmatic philosophy unknown to most people. And I find that it’s

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it’s such an important aspect of nature that helps us find a completely different way of working

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together, of being together, of trusting, because that’s really what it is you do. Your piece and the whole picture comes together. There’s so many aspects of stigmaty I love, but I’m going to put that aside for a moment, even though I’m sure that you and I will have a conversation about it, because you know of all these things.

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Did you find when you were doing the 1st project right when you were doing your installation with all of these personal notes, which I do find interesting, that we, as human beings, when we have the opportunity to talk to plants. We start very personal.

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very, very personal. And

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what do you think based on your own

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conversations? Let’s say this with the plants that you were working with. What do you think the plants got out of that? Like? What changed in the relationship between human plants from this this act of

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I see you and I actually want to leave you a very personal message.

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Hmm!

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So in this 1st work I tried to involve some messengers. Why? Because the messages were left inside some bamboo canes, some small bamboo canes, and to leave the message we have to break a little door that I created with plants, with leaves.

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And what happens that breaking this door? Basically, it creates a nest for insects.

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So the poetic images was that these messages were brought to plants by the insect that were living with them, that they probably know much better. The plant, of course this is a poetic image.

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but I think that maybe some translators some messengers could add, especially in these 1st steps.

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Yeah.

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Do you think that? Do you think that the plants

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are different?

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Not just, I mean, I work with a lot of people. And obviously, when you start this plant reawakening and you start this process of recognizing that. Oh, wait! If I’m leaving a message to the plant. It’s obviously because I feel like the plant in some ways receives that message. If not, I wouldn’t spend the time writing the message

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so as the plant receives that message, most likely energetically, I don’t really see the ants opening the little piece of paper and reading it to the plant. But somehow the message gets there. Do you think that the relationship in that way? Do you think that the plants changed like something changed?

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I know that that’s going a little beyond communication. It’s probably a little woo. It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s okay. I mean.

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from a scientific point of view. I cannot say that because I

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did not measure anything, and I did not observe anything changing

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so, but and yet

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point of view. So from this I cannot say.

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and from the other, of course, I think that something in in the people changed.

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Probably they they

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was different after doing this act.

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Plans have a really different time phrase that we have.

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So

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so I think probably

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they need a very long-lasting relationship to to change. This is my my opinion. But it’s not scientifically based. But I think well, it’s actually also, sometimes scientifically based.

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I mean plants at some time at really different timescales

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and from sun reserves.

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It looks that

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only after many minutes they really

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kind of recognize that that something is there

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some warnings there?

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So so in this case, I don’t know if it happens.

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Yeah, to stay longer time to

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kind of connect.

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Yeah, I think this is always the hard part and the beautiful part, depending on how you look at it, and the type of work we do, especially for all of us that have that scientific knowledge. And yet we’re doing things that

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Natasha Meyer spoke about this really clearly in her plant sensing paper, where she talks about how

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the older generation of scientists that have been working with plants for a long time, can more easily admit

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that they have been changed, and that their knowledge that they’re receiving the direction sometimes has to be coming from the plant, because, if not, where else would they realize some of the discoveries? Or you know you never. And with Evgeny Emmett just the other week we were talking about this about how

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some discoveries. It’s impossible to think that we stumbled upon it.

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You had to be guided to know that that Herb is going to help you in this way or that. This

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herb and this plant go together in order to make a medicine like that doesn’t just come because of

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I’m I don’t know. I have to be connected to something, but it’s it is true that it is hard, and it’s still hard to to scientifically show some of these pieces. And so that line that fine line between faith or feeling.

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and

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what we can actually measure, especially in these early stages where we we want to show people things. But we don’t want to be

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disregarded as a little bit like out there type of thing. It’s a very, very delicate balance, and I can imagine that with this project infinite Meadows, you had the opportunity to sort of enter into a different type of relationship. You had said earlier that there was some writings from that. Can we hear some of that work?

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Yeah, of course, of course, you can read just a small extract from I would love it from the copy. Let me find it.

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And

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yeah, there it goes.

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So basically, this is

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Well, I will not explain it this way. I like that better. I think that’s excellent

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primordial growth, and tickle 4

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here

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a papua.

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a slander barrier. It creates a difference between outside and inside

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it creates.

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I need to resist

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to exist.

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But what if

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by invisible miracle

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it maintains the precarious imbalance?

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There it goes

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the blind.

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it englows and sucks, it, fights and shies away, and competes.

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skips and bluffs and Gracian sparkles, sending sticks.

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membranes acts like drone.

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If they have boonders. We spat on

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in the shortest.

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we turn away.

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and we suck each other

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and deadp.

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they roll into the mesh

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and become and become clues.

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messages.

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stable reinforcements.

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ruler

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for those who resist

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through huge, wide eyes which don’t exist.

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survival gaze upon the stars

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at the light of millions of years ago.

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and then

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chance

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and randomness

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becomes necessity.

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It becomes so powerful, the balance of an instant

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that it must exist.

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Slump.

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exit. Here.

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I love headset super interesting. This is a perfect time to take a very quick break to bring in one of our eco-conscious business partners, and then we’re going to dive into one of the newest projects that you’ve been working with.

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All right, we’re back, and I want to hear about this plart. 1st of all, creative name. I like the name, and I’m all for names like that. So tell me about the plart project.

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Yeah. Well, the the plart project is the title of an Umbrella title of all this work I’m doing after the ethnic widow. I wanted to get more

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to get deeper into into the scientific and of course

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also artistic

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reasoning. So what I did I was able. I was lucky enough to get in contact with Professor Ninovich. He’s 1 of the maximum expert in the plant communication. By a scientific point of view.

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He works at the Ezra University in Uppsala, Sweden.

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and

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So I made a Residency there as a as an artist, and I was able to explore the laboratories and interview some of the researchers that were working there

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and start a quite a very interesting conversation with Professor Minkowicz.

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Of course they work in agriculture, let’s say, sector. So

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they they study. They’re studying plan communication

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because they want to improve the agricultural part of it.

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So maybe use less pesticide because they can use words that plants use to say the things

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that are mainly pheromones smells within provinces.

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or they want to to improve them. But

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the fact that to do that they have to do basic research, because we really are starting that.

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if not from the scratch, but only in the last 20 years, probably the science and all the scientists probably started reasoning about plants in a different way. In the 20 years ago we were still talking about plant blindness. So basically, this concept came out because we don’t really

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seed plants around us.

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Okay, maybe some.

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Your your listeners are made more sensitive than other people, but

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most people, when they came back home at the evening. They don’t

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probably reason about knowing have we met any plants, but maybe they remember about that dog or that cat that we’re passing. But no plants, probably

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so, but also stereotypes started to

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really getting into and this is very fascinating, because we know that animals have the nervous system. So they have all the sense connected to that, and we raise them. And the image came out. And so.

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But when we started studying plants we see that

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they do the same things, or maybe more than we do.

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But we didn’t really figure out.

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do that because they don’t really have a or we didn’t really discover a central nervous nervous system in that.

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So there is a lot of questioning and discussion between scientists saying that plants are intelligent or not intelligent. I like how you say discussion. Let’s be honest. They’re fighting, they’re fighting. They’re yelling at each other from papers I have gone through with my audience. I do plant consciousness commentary every Friday. I have gone through the papers from 2,006

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to today, and it’s hysterical to see how these neurobiologists are fighting with the plant neurobiologist or fighting with the plant physiologist, with the philosophers of plant, of plant sciences, with the plant they’re fighting, they are not just having a discussion.

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It’s quite easy when you don’t define really what intelligence means or when you change the definition based on who you’re talking about, which is what human neurobiologists love to change the definition as soon as you show them a plant does something, they change it. And they’re like, no, we weren’t saying that you have to have this. And it’s like a brain does not mean intelligent

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intelligence is a behavior, not an organ.

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Yeah, that’s that’s what it’s really fascinating me. The most

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that connect the dots of my research. That is a complex systems. So really, talking about stigmaty, and how simple elements create something that is bigger than the sum of the elements.

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And I think in plants, it’s

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so so in front of us that because with humans we still have, and we can still say that it’s the brain that is

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saying, but in good place you cannot. So that is the very interesting point.

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And then I think

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I think I lost myself. Oh, it’s okay. We were talking about how you got to the Clark project. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s

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I work there studying that and reasoning about that and getting a lot of materials also very interesting to interview the researchers and see what they think, what science is and what art is.

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because many, many, most of the people think that art and science are very, very different approaches

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to to the reality. Maybe you’re not, but I’m happy about that. But most of the people think that they are totally different, actually

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not not to me.

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They are 2 different ways to.

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let’s say, to terrorize the word and to bring it back.

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So

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2 different processes. But this is. There’s

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a statement by Albert Einstein that says that

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there is a strong connection between art and science. I think I brought. So yeah, they say, he says, the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle through art and through science.

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So this is really, if the mysterious is what we we try to grasp, science, try to grasp it in theories or interiorizing the world, and then putting outside theories that probably in the next 10 years they will be surpassed. But we know that scientists know that the real scientists know that this is the best we know, and then probably it will change.

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and the artist, with the same observer metabolize, and then bring out what what they

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be the tool to affect artisan skills.

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and they are also both are really social terms. I mean, art exists between because somebody decide what is art, what is not. There is a community that is deciding that and all societies is the same.

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So they are both

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the

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expression of the society. But also, yeah, I call like it called mother and daughter of the society, because they they are born from society, but sometimes also they bring on the thing. So they also change and create a new.

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So

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this is why I think they are really too strong ways to

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to tackle a reality. And then out of it. Basically, I,

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I create a theater show.

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basically a theater show that I was able to to perform 1st in A in Stockholm and then at the Venice Biennale to.

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And that’s your comment.

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Robot.

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And this is really a show where I try to go on with the research.

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And so still

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trying to let people know about what is happening also in the scientific world, how we are studying that and discovering incredible things about the skills that plant has

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as well trying to discover things while

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creating the performance. So

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that, that is something also very, very important to me that while I create, I I understand things.

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And while you’re writing poetry, or while developing a performance, or the text, or the movement itself.

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give me your insight.

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Well, the arts is so important in this work, I think because I mean, I interview a lot of interspecies, artists, right people who are using and working with artistic realms to express all of this, not just the scientific knowledge, in the sense of what has already been shown, but also what we’re at the limits of what we’re exploring, which I think is extremely important.

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because art gives you a playground space. It’s not confined to those rigid rules, and it allows

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the exploration that we’ve somehow lost in science and a lot of scientific, you know, laboratories and such are now because of funding because of the need to publish in order to get.

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you know your tenure because of all of these other external constraints. We’ve forgotten that science should have ample room for you to fail, and for you to explore new things and play in different directions, and also

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time for you to apply the discoveries that you’re making into other means, into other ways of exploring them to see if it still holds water to see if it’s still valid. When you take it outside of the artificial, constrained view of the scientific laboratory and bring it out into a different medium. And this is where the arts can be so great, especially now that there is more of this scientific art that’s happening

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because it’s playful. It allows us to try new things. It’s safe for the audience, so we can bring in people who, if you were to give them a paper, would never read it.

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and if you were to try to explain it to them in a very dry way, they would be like, I don’t understand. But then you put it into a performance, into a poem, into something you watch, or a painting, and all of a sudden they can feel it.

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and they can make decisions on where that goes for them. And they could start to explore things that they wouldn’t allow themselves to explore in other ways, and I think that this is really the importance and the power of these artistic means, especially in the plant humanities and in the plant sciences, because

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we are operating with. We’re working with and collaborating with beings that are so different from us.

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you know. Plants have. Yes, they’re all made of cells, but we don’t see the cells. So most people don’t think at the cellular level. They’re thinking like you, said brain nervous system hands, eyes. They’re looking at the sense of smell. There’s no nose, the sense of touch, but there’s no hands, and they forget that we ourselves also interpret things with

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many different ways mechanisms. It’s not just that you see. When your eyes are open, close your eyes and color still comes through, and you can see things in your mind’s eye and through your memories. And there’s just all these other mechanisms that we forget about ourselves. But when you come in contact with a plant, and especially if you do it in the safe environment of art.

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Now, all of a sudden, I walk away with a different definition of myself

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and the relationship that is now possible between myself and these other beings that, like you said, have been here with us all along, and we’ve been blind to

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so projects like this, I think, are so important, and I love that I’m meeting more and more artists

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that are working. And they’re bridging that gap they are studying. They are doing the research into the sciences. And then they’re taking that. And they’re playing with it for human consumption. Because, you know, we humans are a bit dumb. Sometimes we need things to be simple. We need them to be simple.

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Yeah, yeah, of course. But you also need to experience it sometimes. That’s why I really like to work with small groups.

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and dancer even do

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theatre show for one person at a time.

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I mean

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For example, I organize some kind of

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forest bathing, and I bring people to the to the boot, and I let them observe.

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and then I explain them how also friends are probably looking at them, listening at them, smelling them, and and let them

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stay after having

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heard about that.

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and feel if something has changed in, how they are staying there.

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And it really is quite strong experience. Yes, it is. We forget. I mean, we. We have these plants all around us.

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There’s always a plant somewhere nearby. Even sometimes you can’t see, because it’s like the corner, the little moss that’s growing in the corner there, and so we’re always being observed where they’re listening into all of our conversations. They’re experiencing all of our emotions, all of the chemicals that we’re putting out in our body that we can’t sense, and they’re picking up so can feel that, and vice versa.

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constantly taking in not just the oxygen, but that oxygen is filled with all of those chemicals and pheromones and vox that are coming of those volatile organic compounds that are coming into my body. And there’s this constant exchange with a being that we don’t even recognize half the time. So I love the idea that that art.

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the way that you’re using both performance, art, and poetry to really move that. Can you tell me a little more about this project plant? Stillness?

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Hmm,

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yeah, I mean, what do you want to know more, I mean, well, what is it? I mean, the audience doesn’t know who’s listening in doesn’t know what it is. Okay, okay. So this is a theater. Show that where I

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I’m a kind of

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a bird.

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Say it again.

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All righty, this is a really rare bird that can reproduce only on top of a special plant.

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But there’s only one seed of these 3 left in the world.

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So this bird is having a nest on top of, he said.

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and with a small treat of this, of these Patagonia synenses that is

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not existing with another tree that he’s waiting and taking care of this tree, because only when he can grow up he will be able to reproduce again.

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This is the the character that I invented for this.

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and but I like to get into out from the characters, or sometimes I’m just Antonio. Tell you

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our plans communicate, sometimes getting back

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to the to the

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Burke, and I also use real vox. I mean the the substances that plants use to to

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to communicate. Between themselves.

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especially, you know, when this smell of cut grass.

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When they cut a lot of grass you can really smell it. You can smell because they cut a lot of plants.

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and so it is very concentrated, but usually this is already there, but we cannot really smell.

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and these substances are some just some chemicals, and I use during the performance to make people smell it. They spray in the room.

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So you really feel some probably never experienced before smells.

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And that’s also interesting. But basically, these are the substances that are the main components of this grass smell.

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And actually, we like it very much, usually. But if you really think about it, it’s a quite

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terrible because he’s basically hearing the the scream of the grass that is being cut. So it’s like a horror movie. More than this relaxing feeling that we have like point of view. Probably.

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I mean, why, why plan to do that?

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If there’s a why, of course we came back home today from this question. But let’s say that there’s a purpose, that maybe it’s not really a purpose. It will change the point of view. But in a mechanistic point of view. They do that because

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if other plants can smell this, they will know that they probably will be cut, so they will bring all the energy to the roots so they can reflourish.

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They have this skill that we don’t have

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that to really flourish when they are cut into.

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We don’t have that. At least we don’t even have the capability really of thinking of our neighbors so much

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that when we scream we scream for ourselves, we don’t scream for everybody else to be like, Hey, watch out! Make sure, you know only a few people do that, so we could even learn that part like, Hey.

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the lawnmower is coming. Everybody bring in their energy. It’s time to bring in the energy. Bring in the energy. So you’re all good. We don’t do that. We don’t do that. Yeah, sometimes sometimes we do come on, and we don’t be so pessimistic. Sometimes we love each other, sometimes we love us. And anyway, these casualistic thoughts.

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It’s also very, very limiting to me. I mean.

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if you think about evolution, of course, this

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happens and look to work. So that’s why it stays. Sometimes we think that nature is the perfection. Say, look at the perfection of nature, but actually, what from my studies, nature is not really working for perfection

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is working for the minimum functionality. If something works, it goes on. So sometimes it’s also create some clumpsy stuff, and sometimes it’s some big failure and restart from the scratch, or almost

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it’s really it’s it’s working so. But I don’t know if there’s some causality in this

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behavior of clients communicating that each other that the damage that’s coming, or

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also all the chorizal

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symbiosis or any symbiosis that we have with all the bacteria that we are so basically

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date day date.

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The reasoning behind that is that

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maybe it’s not really all this causal effect.

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but a small net of all of these together, that is some kind moving, and we are part of this net.

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And this is the the bigger

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feature. I think.

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that I like to grab somehow with with a reason, and that is also the the conclusion where I get in this plant stillness show.

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I like it, and

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I find it really interesting because I do I like? And we’re going to take a second. And we’re going to show a little bit for those of you that are watching on the video. I’m going to play a little snippet of this plant stillness show so that you can get 1st of all, it’s hysterical. It’s very funny to just see Antonio running around as this bird, just because enjoy your laugh. And even if you’re not watching, at least you can hear it, and it’s worth it, anyway, just to hear it. It’s worth it.

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So let’s take a second now to watch this video, because, yeah, it’s again it’s worth it.

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Have you ever taken care of a plant. I’m learning many things

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hidden by their own

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dead bodies.

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Roots secretly move underground.

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looking for water, silencing

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for water, and listening

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to the tin trembles of sewing lists

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to the thin trembles of zombie vibrating water.

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What is any

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the pain trembles of sorrow

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vibrating.

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listening to.

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and see what I mean. I told you it was worth it. It’s like this is the kind of stuff that I think also opens us again. I was talking about play, and how important it is for us to

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feel playful because it’s in play that we experiment, and we allow things to come in. And you wonder, does it. What does this mean? And how does this work? And can it be different than the way I’ve thought about it?

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And oh, what can I do like, if plants are doing this, or if these chemicals, these organic compounds that I’m feeling right, those smells are something. What does that mean? And how is my body reacting to it. And what does that?

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How can I change because of it? So I think it’s fantastic to do shows like this that have, you know all these different elements together, and are also showing in a way that again, is non-threatening some of the perils that are happening in our society. You have these birds, that relationship between the bird and the one tree, right? So if the tree disappears, the bird disappears, and if that bird disappears, I’m sure there’s much more. And there’s like all these relationships that we just don’t recognize. And I think that

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in working closer with the plants they also show us these networks like you’re saying right, these nets and these networks that are out there, and how they mingle and cross and move on to many different aspects.

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And I think that’s the answer for so many of the problems that we have in the world right now is that if we recognize that we’re part of this network in Dom and her, we do this project called the Global Tree Network. It’s the orienting of the trees project, and it really is about

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stepping humanity back into this network, connected to trees and plants in general, and so thinking of trees as antennas, and thinking of like grasses and meadows as the supercomputers that process all this information and this data, and that if we were able to reconnect ourselves back into this network, can you imagine how different our lives would be.

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Can you imagine how different the world around us would be if we allowed for that multiple intelligences, relationship, and that sort of communication back and forth with more fluidity. I mean, like you said, it’s only been about 2025 years that we have been

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studying these concepts and really looking at plant, neurobiology and plant communication and plant cognition and all these different elements. And we’re only starting to look at it. So it’s going to take us a while before we recognize and we’re able to see the correlations, especially because we’re skeptical as humans. We want you to prove it.

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Pruvits

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kind of like you not wanting to say that plants decide. I say, plants decide. Okay. They have intelligence. They have memory. They have the ability to make decisions because they have to. They have to choose between A or B and the decision isn’t always the same, even if the factors are the same. So there’s some decision-making mechanism there, and I find it so incredible that we continue to fight

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about this. And I have my own theories as to why like around how much of our lives would change, and some of it is scary. Right wood that I stand in my desk is made out of wood. My clothes is made out of cotton like. If I believe that these plants are cognizant and intelligent.

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what does that mean? Am I allowed to cut them down? I mean, this really opens to big discussions. And I think that this is where the arts, the work that you’re doing is so important because we’re not going to be able to deal with these types of big questions

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directly. They’re too scary. They would change too much about our lives. But if I do it in art in a playful way, then I might consider it, and I might explore it, and I might give myself permission to think about a world where plants are our partners and our collaborators, and they’re working with us, and sometimes they give their body to us.

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and sometimes instead, they say, No, you shouldn’t cut us down now. And so I think that these are really important and heavy questions from the way that humans deal with it, but that the arts gives us the opportunity to walk in it a little bit softer.

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Yeah, anyway, it will take time. It will take time. It will definitely, we know, we know, and sometimes

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I feel like a bit discouraged about that. But then I say, Okay, I bring my drop and see exactly that is going to be

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exactly, you’re better.

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This has been really a beautiful conversation. I’m super appreciative of all the things that you’ve brought. Are there any last words that you want to share with the audience.

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Well, wasn’t prepared to that. But

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hey? I’m here to keep you on your toes.

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Okay, okay. So no, I don’t. I don’t have, I mean, if you can come to my shows, and that’s a very point. I sometimes organize this 1st betting. Now I have one in

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in 20 days, in a festival in Italy, and

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you know September, it will be in Padova where I live

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there would be a bigger is that a bigger

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conference about plant cognition from the University of Padua.

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So I will be there also, interviewing scientists

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and checking, also putting some doubts, and probably I will also perform stillness. But I’m still

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arranging that. So I didn’t have 100, sure. And that’s it. I mean,

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support leading artists. Exactly. So I’m going to make sure I click all.

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I’m going to put all the show notes, all the links to everything so that people can find you. They can find your work. I’m going to put it all into the show notes. So please go check out the show notes, and, like Antonio, said.

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Support the artist support the artist, go to shows, you know, become a Patreon, you know. Do whatever it takes even for us, come and join the naturally conscious community which, as you know, is the

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online ecosystem for all of these types of discussions to see new artists, to be able to talk about plant-human relationships and all of its different nuances. And that’s also the best way for you to support this podcast. Because over in the naturally conscious community, we have different membership levels that really allow you to participate and be a part of our book club and our writing group and masterclass

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and all kinds of different information as well as support all of this work that we’re doing. So, Antonio. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. It has really been a pleasure to hear all of the different

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projects that you’re working on, and I’m very much looking forward to hopefully being able to see you myself live at some point. Who knows? Maybe I’ll come to Carla in September. It’s only a few hours away. So why not? Yeah. Come on. Okay. Nice. Thank you for the invitation, Tigrilla, and congratulations for your project. Thank you. Thank you so much. So that’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of ReConnect with Plant Wisdom, intro on outro music by Steve Shuli and poinsettia from the singing life of plants. So join me, Tigrilla Gardenia, and my plant collaborators next time on ReConnect with Plant Wisdom.