Ep.99 Why Hunter-Gatherers Were Less Stressed Than Us with Tommy Serafinski

1
00:00:02.540 –> 00:00:09.449
Hello, Hello, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me Tigrilla Gardenia.

2
00:00:09.980 –> 00:00:20.870
Oh, my God! Are you in for a treat with this episode. This ended up being completely different from what we thought we were going to be doing. We had a whole mess of different

3
00:00:21.240 –> 00:00:23.199
topics that we could touch.

4
00:00:23.340 –> 00:00:36.980
But Tommy Serafinski is somebody that you are really going to enjoy. And we ended up getting into this deep dive around the idea of connection to land attunement, feeling, safe

5
00:00:37.080 –> 00:00:58.590
understanding, you know how and what’s going on around you. It’s just amazing. So I am really looking forward to this. And in the end, after a lot of thinking about exactly how I can explain to this the best way for me to describe this is for you to enjoy. Episode

6
00:00:58.650 –> 00:01:17.070
99, okay, 99. Can you believe this? This is episode 99. I am still shocked about that. But this is episode 99. Why, hunter-gatherers were way less stressed than we are. Okay, not way. No, no way.

7
00:01:17.270 –> 00:01:22.100
Let’s just call it. Why, hunter gatherers were less stressed than we are

8
00:01:22.990 –> 00:01:51.760
welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia. Nature inspired mentor, certified life coach and the founder of the naturally conscious community for over a decade. I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom, to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution. In this podcast I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

9
00:01:51.820 –> 00:02:04.310
Together we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships and live an authentic, impactful life.

10
00:02:06.090 –> 00:02:27.370
Okay, Tommy. We finally, I finally hit the record button. And we’re actually going to finally do this, because when you and I met and we had our 1st conversation, we had a billion one directions that we could take this conversation. And I’m sure we’re still going to take it into a billion one. But before we start I want you to tell everybody about. Who are you? Introduce yourself completely?

11
00:02:27.760 –> 00:02:56.839
All right, so I think I wear many hats. But for the purpose of this conversation I’m Tommy Serafinski. I’m the host and producer of conservation and science, podcast. Formerly known as Tommy’s outdoors. So the name Tommy’s outdoors still lingers. But the title is conservation and science. And we like the tagline is that we take a deep dive into issues of ecology, conservation and human wildlife interactions. I think that human wildlife interactions

12
00:02:57.140 –> 00:03:00.249
reflects particularly well what I’m interested in.

13
00:03:00.300 –> 00:03:28.570
and that obviously covers conservation that covers any work of Ngos, but it also covers hunting and fishing. It also covers social and political issues related to wildlife, nature conservation, anything that is interface between humans and nature. And obviously that leads to the question. Like, are humans natural? Are humans, part of nature. Of course, humans are part of nature, spoiler, alert. But yeah, that’s what I do.

14
00:03:28.790 –> 00:03:36.670
And I love that because that that’s kind of what what drew me to you when I reached out to you. I really wanted to talk about this whole idea of humans

15
00:03:36.770 –> 00:03:39.859
and and wildlife, and the idea of.

16
00:03:39.880 –> 00:04:00.310
you know, rewilding into a certain extent the human and really getting back into our wild roots. What does that actually mean? Why should we connect into that? And I was really excited to talk to you, because, you know, I myself, a few years back, started to get back in touch with the nature around me in that way, and wild crafting, and like going out and

17
00:04:00.310 –> 00:04:12.400
learning how to hunt, learning how to, you know, take care and be a part of the land, and it opened up a whole series of different senses for me, like the whole concept that

18
00:04:12.580 –> 00:04:19.560
I don’t know how to explain it. It’s such still, hard words for me to kind of find, because it’s almost like I found my true self

19
00:04:19.800 –> 00:04:37.439
in the fact of when I’m out there with that intention, with the intention of How do I live with and of the land it it changed my entire perspective of when I came back home. It’s almost like, Oh.

20
00:04:38.570 –> 00:04:55.170
I’m not just this thing that lives inside of a house and is connected to a computer. And both of us work in tech. So we are connected to computers. And we know all of this. But you notice, yeah, but it’s like, I don’t know. I mean, how did you get into it?

21
00:04:56.180 –> 00:04:57.150
Oh,

22
00:04:58.380 –> 00:05:12.649
this is a interesting question. And I, okay, I’m trying to give you like a short version that maybe for the interest of original programming. That wasn’t, you know, repeated in many other podcasts, I usually am

23
00:05:12.750 –> 00:05:31.159
describe myself as a city boy. I was born in Poland. Probably your listeners. Can. You guys can hear that? I’m not a native speaker. And so I was born in Poland, and I was born in a city at the time second biggest city in Poland. Then I moved to Warsaw, which was the biggest city in Poland.

24
00:05:31.330 –> 00:05:32.820
I work in tech.

25
00:05:32.990 –> 00:05:51.030
and so it’s like nothing was indicating that I will ever, you know, go into this nature trip like me, me, me just definitely that me oh, degree! I was so the same. So anyway. So but we also always had this

26
00:05:51.730 –> 00:06:01.400
like a summer house in a in a rural area. And it was, I call it summer house, because it was like not really suitable for for Polish winters at the time.

27
00:06:01.590 –> 00:06:25.620
Right? And I always enjoyed this. It was like a rural, you know field and stuff like that. And then so I’m just going to do like a fast forward number of years like, 20 years ago, I moved to Ireland, and I moved to Ireland like a you know, like we call it, like a holiday county county, carry on the westernmost tip of Ireland and Europe, actually westernmost tip of Europe.

28
00:06:25.760 –> 00:06:36.870
And this is like again, rural area. I still work in tech. But it’s like you have ocean, and you have mountains. Oh, hills, and like all these things like, Wow! This is so great.

29
00:06:36.970 –> 00:06:48.549
And you know I was, I was. I was fishing. I was an angler, so I had like this this pursuit of the, you know, like outdoors pursuits with the with the with angling

30
00:06:48.949 –> 00:06:55.929
but like in Poland, you know, when I live in Warsaw I have like it was like Vista, the river. So you know, after work we’re going fishing.

31
00:06:56.290 –> 00:07:19.250
and and I had a blog. I had a blog about fishing angling, and when I moved to Ireland it was so great because all those opportunities opened up, and you know, equally I wanted to do something in English language, because I was so like kind of like immersed in the environment, English speaking environments. I had like more friends, English speaking. So I want to do something in English.

32
00:07:19.480 –> 00:07:42.449
And that blog was obviously in Polish language. And I thought, like, I’m going to do the podcast because speaking is easier than writing in the language that you don’t know. Yeah, true. So so podcast was like a natural natural fit. And you know, I thought that a podcast is going to be like a little bit like this blog. I’m just going to be talking with my buddies where we go fishing and stuff like that. And

33
00:07:42.880 –> 00:07:48.659
then we were, you know, but I always like to explore topics that are that are, you know, like interesting.

34
00:07:48.940 –> 00:07:52.010
And we were talking about tagging fish.

35
00:07:52.320 –> 00:08:06.179
And and there was like a discussion on social media like, Oh, you shouldn’t be tagging fish, you shouldn’t this, that. And you know. But this is scientific research whatever. And I talked to people who are from the scientific project called Sea Monitor.

36
00:08:06.620 –> 00:08:14.220
and say, like, Hey, you do like all of this tagging. Would you like to come on on the podcast and talk about it? And you know the good, the bad, the ugly.

37
00:08:14.410 –> 00:08:24.259
And they said, sure, we recorded A podcast and shortly after they contacted me. It’s like, Hey, we have, like, you know, a little work packages. And this, would you like to do this series with us. I was like Whoa, sure.

38
00:08:24.490 –> 00:08:39.799
and then once they like. Then the other of those scientific projects start coming to me like, Oh, we heard that you do this project with this series of positive C monitor, and in this simultaneously my audience responded to this very positively, because

39
00:08:39.950 –> 00:08:51.539
I I speak with those scientists. But obviously I’m not a scientist myself, so I’m you know I am. I am like a avatar for my audience, like a guy who’s interested. But it’s like, Oh.

40
00:08:51.690 –> 00:09:11.580
and I’m asking these like a stupid questions which I have no Quabs about it. And and you know, and the scientists have to. They’re actually enjoying answering that in the terms that they’re understood for lame folks lay folks rather not lame lay folks.

41
00:09:11.760 –> 00:09:23.879
and that is the science communication. So that’s how it started. And that’s how I, you know, diving in those topics, because I think we there’s a lot of things that we

42
00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:37.250
think and they’re that they’re oh, there’s this way, this is that way. But they’re way more complex, you know. Like, when I started, I thought, like everybody is like conservation, like everyone, surely wants to protect the animals and environment

43
00:09:37.370 –> 00:09:41.559
right as I was so naive, this is like so way, more complex than that.

44
00:09:43.310 –> 00:09:53.730
So that goes to my my 1st kind of question, which is, what do you think has changed? Because especially coming into it, as you know, a fisherman, and eventually a hunter. You know it is.

45
00:09:53.990 –> 00:10:22.379
I am the big, you know, predator, and I control and go in. And you know, Hunt whenever I want. And however, I want. That’s how people perceive it. So what changed? What’s changed in you? Because conservation is slightly different. And all of these other scientific conversations are very different from just the idea of. I go out there for sport. I hunt these animals I take care of. I bring them home as we think about it.

46
00:10:23.280 –> 00:10:47.590
This is just the last episode that I published when we were talking about the paper. There’s like a beautiful paper published in in science, in science, sustainability. I think no sorry nature sustainability. So it’s published in nature that the title was that killing wild animals can foster environmental stewardship.

47
00:10:48.188 –> 00:10:54.900
So I I was talking with one of the co-authors, so I just wanted to just answer your questions. That this is like only like a

48
00:10:55.010 –> 00:11:07.229
dominion, is like a very dominionistic view of the things right, that God created the world and put us on this earth to just fuck up things true.

49
00:11:07.430 –> 00:11:13.860
to be in charge, and conquer and divide, and whatever that’s very dominionistic, and actually

50
00:11:14.090 –> 00:11:21.779
not a lot of hunters have that view. So I think that

51
00:11:21.880 –> 00:11:26.430
being a hunter or being a a angler has

52
00:11:26.550 –> 00:11:29.850
much more that gives you that much deeper connection

53
00:11:30.100 –> 00:11:43.610
into the into the nature, and that, you know, like there’s a whole discussion about it, because the as everything in life, the answer is like, it depends. Right? It is different. If you’re being taken on a fishing holiday or a hunting holiday.

54
00:11:44.200 –> 00:11:48.380
and you’re in there somewhere. You don’t know the land. You don’t know where you are.

55
00:11:48.480 –> 00:11:50.490
People tell you what to do.

56
00:11:50.640 –> 00:11:54.209
and then like there is no connection. But if you

57
00:11:54.880 –> 00:12:06.229
hunting or fishing on your own on your patch, not necessarily your own land that you own, but maybe land that you know a farmer, and you hunt that land for the last 10 years or 20 years.

58
00:12:06.490 –> 00:12:09.499
you may develop a very intricate connection

59
00:12:09.640 –> 00:12:14.069
to that piece of land. You start to understand how that land is changing

60
00:12:14.420 –> 00:12:29.140
with the seasons, how it’s changing from year to year, where animals are moving, where, you know, like, what are the paths they’re taking, you know, like you start to learn about all those things. And you’re and you’re very much connected.

61
00:12:29.567 –> 00:12:43.069
There’s also another aspect, you know of killing an actual kill, and and so on, which you might might or might not get later on into into this. But I just want to focus, to your, to your answer to that, to the, to the question that

62
00:12:43.390 –> 00:12:44.720
this is

63
00:12:45.020 –> 00:13:03.059
very like to me. That was what drew me into it. That connection, and that understanding, and that being close to nature, so I don’t think that that changed. I think that in me that was that was always, that was always there, you know, like the 1st time, and I started fishing very late in life it was. I was in my

64
00:13:03.380 –> 00:13:08.290
probably mid twenties when I 1st time went out with a fishing rod.

65
00:13:08.510 –> 00:13:21.149
and like for the very beginning, my question was like, How how can we ensure that we’re not going to run out like, how quickly those fish reproduce! How many fish are taken out of the river or lake, right, how

66
00:13:21.240 –> 00:13:47.799
how we make sure that this is sustainable, and I think that this is in the forefront of everybody you know, every mindful hunter or angler is actually taking care of here. I say resource right, which in itself may sound like, oh, so you have this dominionistic approach, anyway. Right? But it kind of is a resource, or, you know, like a fellow Earthling beings. You can take it this way as well.

67
00:13:48.290 –> 00:14:01.510
but the bottom line is, we are part of this, this mechanism, and when we go out and do something within that system. We have to care about the system and understand what’s going on.

68
00:14:01.680 –> 00:14:17.600
Because otherwise, we, we, you know, this is this is the problem, because the system that we are in and we’re enjoying is in some way so I guess I don’t know if I answer your question, but you totally did, and you touched on one you touched on an element that for me is so important. I was just

69
00:14:17.720 –> 00:14:23.569
work. I was just talking about this with a client who? It’s so funny because she sent me a message today that she’s like.

70
00:14:23.740 –> 00:14:40.949
seriously, mind, this has been maybe about a week or 2 since our last session. No, it’s been a week since our last session, and she was like, my mind is still blown by the concept of stone age economics. There’s this wonderful book that’s really a more of like a large. It’s not really a book. It’s more like an extended research paper

71
00:14:40.950 –> 00:15:05.699
called Stone age economics that talks about the concept that you touched on, which is that we tend to think of in the hunter gatherer timeframe as people who were, you know, desperate and always worried about their food source, and where the food source was going to come from. And hunting was this thing that was like stressful when it’s the complete opposite from the research now is finally showing

72
00:15:05.800 –> 00:15:10.129
that hunter-gatherers were actually much more relaxed.

73
00:15:10.160 –> 00:15:30.950
because, like you said, they knew the land they knew where every being was during the different seasons. So when they want they could go out and hunt or gather right, they knew where the berries were going to be. They knew where the edible plants were going to be. They understood the relationship and their migration and their movements were not like

74
00:15:30.950 –> 00:15:44.299
searching, but more of in flowing with, as things changed, and so what they would do is they would hunt for maybe a week, and then the rest of the month.

75
00:15:44.530 –> 00:15:54.540
Contemplation, relaxation way. More time, way, more time exactly. You know. I don’t remember exactly who was doing that research for the 1st time.

76
00:15:54.650 –> 00:16:05.120
and so I’m going to be very light on facts in terms of names, right? But there was like this guy who does this research.

77
00:16:05.300 –> 00:16:13.859
and then almost immediately, but especially 1020 years later. It was like viciously attacked by.

78
00:16:14.060 –> 00:16:21.639
you know, scientists who were, because really the thing was like, Hey, actually, farming is probably the worst thing we did to ourselves.

79
00:16:21.920 –> 00:16:35.829
because it introduced, like this, constant chore and work and work and stress and everything right. And so I think that was the foundation of the attacks on these ideas right? And there was like a

80
00:16:36.180 –> 00:16:45.280
1 point when the official or majority view was like Oh, it was completely and comprehensively debunked.

81
00:16:45.520 –> 00:17:04.630
But then, later on, the the actual experiments were reproduced, were tried again, like his research was sort of reproduced, and they come back with even more like it, even more convincing results like this guy that no, no, no.

82
00:17:04.990 –> 00:17:09.719
even if you look at at modern hunter-gatherers like Hadza, and and so on.

83
00:17:09.950 –> 00:17:15.090
They have more time. They have, there are less stress. They then, and more importantly.

84
00:17:15.310 –> 00:17:18.800
there also can adjust the workload

85
00:17:18.980 –> 00:17:21.429
to the time of the year

86
00:17:21.660 –> 00:17:26.910
to the time like it’s it’s not like a constant chore. And even

87
00:17:27.483 –> 00:17:36.930
Carl Newport, write about this in his book. Slow Productivity, that what we’re doing in the modern workplace is just craziness, because we just

88
00:17:37.180 –> 00:17:39.909
expected to like, constantly

89
00:17:40.050 –> 00:18:08.589
churn the same productivity levels day after day, week after week, month after month, which is crazy because the because the sun, you know, starts early and the days are longer and the days are shorter that impacts us. We’re not going to work the same. And so this expectation creates stress. And yeah, sure, maybe, like some aspects of safety are better now in the in the modern society. But, like.

90
00:18:08.850 –> 00:18:09.839
you know.

91
00:18:10.360 –> 00:18:21.079
our our state of our mind is not better. Certainly it’s not. It’s not better, because we don’t have time like you said all this mindfulness and all thinking, and like contemplating ideas.

92
00:18:21.440 –> 00:18:28.440
And I think that that is really one of the best examples of the disconnection to nature of what it’s done to us.

93
00:18:28.510 –> 00:18:44.050
because, you know, sometimes people try to go to all these abstract ways of talking about. You know what it means to be disconnected, and the the lack of awe and the wonder, and all this. But it really is also like you, said that sense of safety we, as human beings, have a very.

94
00:18:44.090 –> 00:19:03.730
I think, for most people, not everybody, of course, but for most people. You feel really insecure, and so much of that starts with the fact that your food comes from a supermarket, your housing. You have to have money in order to pay for it like there’s all these different pieces, and I don’t know if the shit hits the fan. What to do.

95
00:19:03.820 –> 00:19:15.090
I don’t know where to go. I don’t know where I can go outside of my home and find food like I don’t know how to forage, and I think that we find, as we start to talk to people who are hunters like you said real hunters.

96
00:19:15.360 –> 00:19:32.790
Pardon me for saying that the weekend hunters are not real hunters, but I mean people who are hunting in the way that you’re talking about. Like, I say, hunting properly. Yeah, in deep connection with the land and the relationship. I remember I was in Kentucky a few years back with some friends of mine who have

97
00:19:33.030 –> 00:19:51.689
huge amounts of land in Kentucky, and we were having a big conversation with their neighbors about hunting about the deer, and how some of the kind of as as the land has been developed in different ways. There have been people who have been going against the idea of hunting in the traditional way that this

98
00:19:51.690 –> 00:20:16.100
people had been doing for hundreds of years, living in the rural Kentucky, and they were saying How now they’re having this huge influx of all this amount of deer that is destroying so many other things. It’s destroying crops. It’s destroying, you know, things that they’re building, because, of course the hunters aren’t there who for generations had been a part of the natural landscape.

99
00:20:16.100 –> 00:20:43.210
you know, similar to controlled fires in that discussion that we’re having hunting done in that way, like you just said of. Well, let me think. How much do I take from the you know, when I’m when I’m fishing when I’m how much do I take out in order to ensure that there’s still a preponderance for all the other beings that need that fish, and for there to be reproduction and all these different pieces. And I think that there’s a huge sense of calm that comes over us when we know

100
00:20:43.280 –> 00:20:52.640
how these cycles work when we’re in relationship with these, because I am no longer, you know, beholden to some artificial system, and

101
00:20:52.750 –> 00:21:11.319
as an extension of that which you already mentioned, I think it naturally leads us to rethink our own cycles like, Wait a minute. It’s freezing cold outside, so maybe I’m not supposed to be doing this this and this, and having the heat up to like a thousand degrees.

102
00:21:11.520 –> 00:21:36.560
because that’s not natural to my body. And therefore I’m that’s why I’m feeling so out of sync. I tell you, I tell you a story about this. When I realize you know how how artificial world recreated on very basic level. I decided that I will go and shoot a time lapse of the sunrise. Okay?

103
00:21:36.620 –> 00:21:48.349
And obviously, it’s never gonna work for the 1st time, because you need to figure out everything your time, and you like all those things right? So I was always

104
00:21:49.150 –> 00:21:53.729
I think, like for argument’s sake. I don’t remember exactly probably half an hour before sunrise, right?

105
00:21:54.320 –> 00:22:06.189
And I’m half an hour before sunrise. I’m setting up all those you know things on the camera and whatever. And obviously I’m shooting it. And then it’s crap. So I’m trying. The next day I’m half an hour before sunrise, and

106
00:22:06.370 –> 00:22:08.349
and a 3rd time

107
00:22:08.860 –> 00:22:16.940
it like struck me like I am in nature. I am at the exact same moment

108
00:22:17.080 –> 00:22:24.389
the sun is rising from the horizon. This big thing it’s just like exact same moment.

109
00:22:24.870 –> 00:22:27.000
But on my watch, that’s a different time.

110
00:22:27.360 –> 00:22:29.139
Like, how does that work

111
00:22:29.360 –> 00:22:35.290
like we created that thing, that who who gets to decide that it’s like 8 Am.

112
00:22:35.740 –> 00:22:43.830
Or like, would it like? No, like that big, massive thing, and our earth like orbits it? It’s

113
00:22:44.070 –> 00:22:51.020
it’s the same time I can see it at the same time. Same light the birds are, you know, waking up, and everything is like.

114
00:22:51.360 –> 00:23:13.300
and it’s occurred to me like what is like, how? How much is this disconnected, like artificially measured time? And we all decided like, Oh, we have to be at start work at 9 o’clock. But you look at the nature, and that’s not the same time at all. It’s just changing all the time. It was like, Oh, man! It like felt so unnatural to have this

115
00:23:13.460 –> 00:23:34.430
hour decided, but like it doesn’t make sense. The sound is just rising like it did like 3 days ago. And to me like to me. I felt like I’m at the exact same time in this place. Let my watch was telling me like, no, no, no, you’re at a different time now like, how come? It’s like 3 days difference, you know. And it was like, Whoa.

116
00:23:34.720 –> 00:24:01.479
yeah. And I love that because I have that I have that experience a lot. So I wake up really early, and I have a whole kind of routine that I do. That’s very calming, and and I have the windows open. I never close my windows. It’s just this weird thing. I sleep with the windows wide open in the sense of no curtains or anything, and I like to regulate myself with the sunlight, and you wouldn’t sleep with windows open in Ireland just saying

117
00:24:01.820 –> 00:24:06.919
insane. But it’s and it’s beautiful. I have a

118
00:24:07.060 –> 00:24:15.689
a gorgeous view of of a lake, of a river, a big meadow, and then a river, and then a small like like small little mountains.

119
00:24:16.080 –> 00:24:25.740
and it’s just gorgeous, but to connect into the way that the light changes, and how my body naturally wakes up this.

120
00:24:26.320 –> 00:24:44.826
the whole thing of an alarm clock is freaking, annoying. To be honest like the whole thing is, is annoying. I and I find that the more I allow myself to just be in that connection, the more my body naturally finds its rhythm, and I wake up and I go to sleep. I did this experiment once. I

121
00:24:45.140 –> 00:25:00.549
I actually took a period of my life where I said I was not going to use an alarm clock at all. Luckily I worked for myself, so I didn’t have to worry about it. And I said, I want to learn my own rhythm. I want to learn the rhythm of my body. When is it that I’m productive? When is it that I’m not?

122
00:25:00.550 –> 00:25:15.180
When is it that I, you know, get up? When is it that I go to sleep? And it was fascinating because what I learned about myself was, I naturally would wake up somewhere between 7, 8 o’clock in the morning ish, depending on the time of the season.

123
00:25:15.560 –> 00:25:43.550
and it was somewhere around there and then I was really productive. I would get so much done up until I was living in Spain at the time, and so, which was great because it matched me so much better. I would basically work until anywhere between 2 to 4 in the afternoon I would drink tea. I maybe grabbed a tiny snack, but I didn’t even really eat around 2 to 4 I would eat, and I would have my like main meal, a nice big meal.

124
00:25:43.560 –> 00:26:05.019
and then I was useless. I would try to go back to work, but I couldn’t. I would take a nap. I did siesta siesta, and I get along very, very well. I did siesta. I would maybe watch TV. I would relax if I was home like I wasn’t going out, or I didn’t have friends, or whatever. I would naturally pick up work again around 9 Pm. To 10 Pm.

125
00:26:05.400 –> 00:26:20.510
And I would work until about 3 to 4 in the morning, somewhere around that time 3, 4, sometimes even 5. And that’s when I would go to sleep, and that cycle of nap in the afternoon. But like really just allowing myself

126
00:26:21.030 –> 00:26:46.549
became. I was so productive because I was working in harmony with, you know, even though I was in a city. But I had again windows open that I always left open, and so I had this light that was coming through, and and I could. I started to take walks and take the afternoon off, and it was fascinating to me that that is, and that still remains. I am the most productive.

127
00:26:46.700 –> 00:27:07.680
From the moment that I wake up to the moment that I kind of take a break, and when I take a break and I eat I am useless, useless. I think there’s a there’s a good body of peer reviewed neuroscience that would that would exactly tie this. What you’re describing into our hormonal rhythms and natural

128
00:27:08.107 –> 00:27:17.080
fluctuation in the body temperature and and stuff like that. So it’s it’s yeah, absolutely. And you know, like being being

129
00:27:17.270 –> 00:27:30.210
put into this 9 to 5 kind of like it’s. It’s like a direct violation of what everybody wants to do. And you know. But I think there is another thing another side of that of that that

130
00:27:30.720 –> 00:27:54.800
those who are in any sort of like a leadership position in the companies, and and so on. They need to be aware of those things as well, and and adjust accordingly, not only to those things, but also to individual predisposition of their people. And I think that this is another thing

131
00:27:54.940 –> 00:27:57.400
which I would tie into just

132
00:27:57.770 –> 00:28:01.589
simple understanding and observation, like you say, like observing

133
00:28:01.810 –> 00:28:13.970
what is what is going on, and like you observing what is going on in the land, you can the same way observe not only you know your your hares and your foxes, and whatever your deer, but also people

134
00:28:14.170 –> 00:28:23.409
right, and even though people are in a different environment, you’re also in observing them. And you learn about them. And I think this is this is very important point to. Just

135
00:28:23.710 –> 00:28:29.349
listen to your body 1st to yourself first, st but also listen and observe those around you.

136
00:28:29.490 –> 00:28:33.959
and that is the way of making life much better both for you and those around you.

137
00:28:34.180 –> 00:28:39.800
Let’s take a quick break, so that I can share with you one of our ego-conscious business partners.

138
00:28:40.660 –> 00:28:55.549
The 1st time I connected with a plant and actually received a response. I got chills. It’s such an invigorating sensation when you make a breakthrough like that and realize just how connected we are, and that we are nature

139
00:28:55.720 –> 00:29:07.599
as a nature inspired mentor. Myself, I was super excited to stumble upon the shift network and its mission to empower global network of evolutionary change. Agents talk about my kind of movement.

140
00:29:07.750 –> 00:29:21.770
There are so many inspiring thought leaders, healers, empaths, and other visionaries, all under one roof, each one on an individual and collective mission to help you reawaken and co-create a just and prosperous world.

141
00:29:22.030 –> 00:29:26.210
check out the show notes and click on the link to learn more about the shift network.

142
00:29:26.350 –> 00:29:33.290
Consider enrolling in a course or 2. Their programs are the perfect complement to your evolving, naturally conscious life.

143
00:29:33.670 –> 00:29:51.110
Yeah. And that’s exactly why I talk so much about this whole like inner plantness. And to me, your animal, really tapping into your animalness, is about reconnecting back to your instincts, connecting back to your movements, to how your actions affect not just yourself, but others.

144
00:29:51.110 –> 00:30:18.080
and your plantness is exactly that that observation, that presence, that awareness of what’s going on around me. And we need both sides right? We need to be able to be very aware of our body and of our way that we affect things with our movement and with our actions and the way that we react to things. And this is a really important part tuning in to that instinctual nature that we have.

145
00:30:18.080 –> 00:30:39.889
and at the same time that observation, that silence, that being in presence and being present, is so important. And when we think about businesses, and we think about that nature inspired approach, I completely agree that that’s a big part of it. Your cultural shift. We endowment her in our, in our nuclears, our shared houses where we lived.

146
00:30:40.120 –> 00:30:55.219
where we live, we talk a lot about the idea that this entity of nucleo gets created right. This sort of spiritual, energetic entity that is created based on the characteristics of everybody that lives together and of the house itself.

147
00:30:55.220 –> 00:31:18.509
It’s almost like this, ever growing, ever evolving entity. And I think that that’s exactly what you’re talking about in your business. It’s like you also have an entity that gets created, based on the harmonization, the resonance between all the people that are there, and that’s a natural rhythm in and of itself. And that might change as more employees. Some employees come in some employees, because it’s not saying.

148
00:31:18.510 –> 00:31:31.379
you know. Okay, we know mornings are in general more productive. But for some people. It’s going to be really early for some people. It’s going to be later in the morning. And so you have to find that sweet spot and the sweet spot is not based on artificial time.

149
00:31:31.380 –> 00:32:00.750
and it’s not based on just arbitrarily saying, This is it. This is that disciplined approach, that dominion approach that you were talking about earlier of. I dominate, and therefore I said it, and I say it’s supposed to be that way. But if we were really looking at from from a business perspective or from any kind of group activity perspective. What we’re looking for is that sweet spot we’re looking to attune ourselves to the land. And in this case the landscape is

150
00:32:00.750 –> 00:32:23.079
the actual office environment, or what it is that we’re trying to do and to tune into that to find that? Is it hard sometimes, absolutely. I mean, when you’ve got a school, for example, of children, and you’re trying to find the time, you know you say, get everybody get in by 7 Am. In the morning, but also then recognize that if you do start certain activities at 7 o’clock in the morning.

151
00:32:23.080 –> 00:32:40.189
Don’t bitch at the kids when they can’t do it like rethink when you do certain things, sure, everybody has to get there in order to have a kind of general cohesion. But we need to start adapting, and we need to start tuning in. And that’s why I go back to

152
00:32:40.190 –> 00:32:53.370
people who are deeply connected to the land that they live in, like you’re talking about, you know, relating to hunters and anglers and foragers and stuff I think it becomes. It’s almost like this, this

153
00:32:53.440 –> 00:33:17.780
exercise of your body that you’re a muscle of attunement that becomes much more refined. And you start to be able to see those small nuances. Hence why trackers are so good at being able to take the smallest disturbance and understand that, and applying those skills into businesses and group environments, I think, can be just so powerful to help us

154
00:33:18.020 –> 00:33:28.039
reconnect back to the way our bodies naturally move and observe and explore things. 100%. I just want to add one thing to this, that

155
00:33:28.250 –> 00:33:46.069
people who are listening to that. And and if that resonates, it’s not something that you’re going to do overnight. It’s just it, just. It’s just like a small steps, because, you know, and again, I think that we all agree that the odds are stacked against us

156
00:33:46.180 –> 00:33:48.680
in terms like how everything is organized.

157
00:33:49.130 –> 00:34:10.590
And I don’t think that the answer is like some, you know, opposition and and revolution. It’s more like taking, step back and learn to live within the constraints right? Because at the end of the day you want, and you still depends on certain, for example services that are provided to you that you, you know, and someone has to do those things.

158
00:34:10.850 –> 00:34:39.039
But you know, like you start if you start with yourself. And you start with, you know, just just thinking about like, how am I really feeling right now, you know, like what is what I really feel. And you start, you know, even like a like a meditation or something. You realize like, what absolute garbage is like a like a in your brain, in your head all the thoughts, everything like it’s like, where what are all those things doing there? And you know, and the same thing is like

159
00:34:39.120 –> 00:34:50.280
when when you’re waking up like what I do like when I wake up. The 1st thing I do I do like a self check. Sometimes. I didn’t even open my eyes. But I’m just like, how am I feeling right?

160
00:34:50.389 –> 00:35:09.600
Am I? Did I sleep well, like, how’s my stomach like? How was my food last night like, how was my food previous day? I can feel like. But it’s not like I have, like some, you know, great skills. It was something that was, you know, like, initially, it’s like, I feel nothing but over time, as you start observing that

161
00:35:10.070 –> 00:35:19.990
after 6 months, 4 months, 6 months, it’s becoming like so apparently obvious to you like you know what that chili that I ate last night. It it wasn’t good for me.

162
00:35:20.110 –> 00:35:30.549
My! My body speaks to me that it like it wasn’t like. And you’re and you learn those things, you know. And I think that, for example, people who are

163
00:35:30.550 –> 00:35:51.329
this is like a very devious, because people who like like their health right? And they’re they’re like minded for fitness and sport, and whatever they all have, like a watches and trackers and heart rates and all those things, and like to me like. And I’m like one of those guys right? It’s like I still have it here. But it’s not on my, not on my wrist anymore, right? And like that actually

164
00:35:51.370 –> 00:36:12.160
takes away from a lot of this, like the the old coaches and the old, old athletes like they have this rate of perceived exertion, which was the most important factor for the rate of perceived exertion. Not your heart rate, not your Ftp, not what your watch is telling you like. How do you feel

165
00:36:12.160 –> 00:36:23.340
about your activity? And so and that was very, and that was very powerful. I think we we start to see like a comeback to this, you know, like I saw I saw this this meme like there’s a 1 runner

166
00:36:23.350 –> 00:36:30.540
like, you know, proper runner with the watch, whatever, and the other guy in the T-shirt, and you know, in the ponytail hand in this pocket.

167
00:36:30.650 –> 00:36:33.349
and he goes to the run like, how was your run?

168
00:36:33.640 –> 00:36:44.899
And the guy looks at the watch and goes like my pace was such and such, and my heart rate was this, and my maximum heart rate was that? And whatever right? And the guy in the pocket like was it fun?

169
00:36:45.240 –> 00:36:48.509
And the guy that looks at him, looks at the watch. It doesn’t say.

170
00:36:50.530 –> 00:37:03.580
and that’s it. Right. We we look to external factors because we’re so disconnected from ourselves, right? So disconnected from our true nature, so so disconnected. So we have to have something that tells us.

171
00:37:03.590 –> 00:37:24.889
That’s that’s what’s going on. I remember I threw out my scale years ago, and I realized it was like, if I want to under, because I have body dysmorphia. And so I’m like, if I want to revolutionize and evolve this body dysmorphia in a different way. I need to get in touch with my body, and I need to understand, you know, when does my body hold a little more. When must my body move?

172
00:37:24.890 –> 00:37:46.079
When am I sitting too long? Not because some counter tells me so, but because I know that that’s what’s my body? And when do I need to do? I don’t know an aerobic routine versus. When do I need to stretch into it? And you can’t do any of that like you said, unless you sit

173
00:37:46.080 –> 00:37:56.110
and really listen. And that’s why that contemplation we were talking about hunter-gather cultures was so also important, because, in order for them to learn and know that land.

174
00:37:56.110 –> 00:38:06.140
they had to take that time, to just be in it, to just sit there, to observe, to observe yourself, to know how your body reacts to this.

175
00:38:06.360 –> 00:38:26.180
You don’t train to fall, to run after a gazelle by just running. It’s more than that you have to have. You know you have to be able to tune in to where the gazelle is going to run to, because you can’t outrun some of these animals, you know. That doesn’t happen. I think you’re going to look at the gazelle first, st and just you’re going to run after one that is a little lame.

176
00:38:26.330 –> 00:38:45.240
exactly like that. One’s not going to go so fast. I can see that there’s an injury in that leg, but I think that all of this, and I’m glad that you mentioned the whole point of it’s a slow process I cannot emphasize. It is a process that requires

177
00:38:45.240 –> 00:39:01.400
you to observe. It requires rest. It requires for you to do something and try it, and then to give yourself time to feel what happens, and I love how you were saying that your body you start to become in tune with your body. I always say that

178
00:39:01.400 –> 00:39:21.179
you know the whole premise of of being able to feel how food reacts to you. Stop looking at somebody else, telling you carbs no carbs this, that or the other. None of that stuff matters. What matters is, how does your body digest? Some people are naturally going to be more vegetarian. Some people are naturally going to be more carnivorous

179
00:39:21.180 –> 00:39:35.500
sometimes in different seasons of the year. You’re going to be like that. So much of that is tied also to your relationship with the land that you have and how you digest what’s coming in and from around that, and we spend way too much time

180
00:39:35.870 –> 00:40:01.299
like trying to disconnect from our bodies. I had somebody you tell me you tell me what I supposed to eat? What time like you tell me I don’t want to think about it. I just tell me what I think, you know, like I’m saying the same goes, you know, like the same goes for for like a medical care. I always say like I’m I am my best doctor, right? Like like I, you know, like there are. They have like a you know they can.

181
00:40:01.300 –> 00:40:07.860
They know the medications if I need, or whatever. But that’s up to me

182
00:40:08.210 –> 00:40:22.519
to go and say, like, this is what’s going on. This is what’s happening, because they’re like, just like, so it’s like every aspect of it’s just life. It’s just life. I think that’s a summary of like, it’s just life. Just pay attention.

183
00:40:23.390 –> 00:40:30.780
Yeah. And and that’s it. And the more. You’re out there, and this is, I think, where it is important for you to

184
00:40:30.900 –> 00:40:56.939
spend time in nature. Now, that doesn’t mean for all of us we can’t go. There was a wonderful study called the Nature of Americans. It was a study that was done with. Over 2,000 Americans were interviewed, and they did all kinds of different aspects to understand the relationship that Americans have to nature and also to conservation. And all these different things. And what I found fascinating was that one of the big things that came up is that for adults

185
00:40:56.940 –> 00:41:11.730
nature is out there. In other words, it’s something that I have to pack the car, and I have to go out, and I have to make it an outing and make it a day. And there’s this like whole thing where, instead for children.

186
00:41:11.840 –> 00:41:39.669
nature is whatever I see around me like. Oh, look! Something’s growing out of the sidewalk, and oh, my goodness! I’m going to go sit on the grass and wow! Look at this tree growing here. I’m going to go like climb off the tree. Or oh, the houseplant! I feel like it grew like nature. Is not this faraway park, or something? Nature is like all these little elements, and even how incredible

187
00:41:39.950 –> 00:42:01.219
learning how your own grass grows. Okay. You shouldn’t plant grass, but if you have grass, you know, if you have it, see, see how the plants grow, or even your house plants, like. You know, I live with a lot of different houseplants, even though I have these beautiful wilderness outside, and I love seeing how the minute changes, because I can feel

188
00:42:01.540 –> 00:42:21.709
how I’m changing in reference to how they’re changing. So I think even when you’re talking about hunting, it’s not about the I’m going out. Yes, sure, some are going to go out there and go hunting, but it’s also like, how do I get to know the area around me, the nature that is around me, so that it feels more like I’m coming into home.

189
00:42:21.720 –> 00:42:50.799
Look, this is like like everything. This is like very complex and multi-layered thing to to talk about, you know, like what you mentioned about this disconnection of nature like this is something that we we talked about in episode, about novel ecosystems that we kind of like a disconnected ourselves from nature. And, like you said, like, I’m going, we going to nature like nature like we created this fence right? And then nature is stuff behind the fence.

190
00:42:51.060 –> 00:43:02.419
and on that side of the fence is like where we have our safety. And so like. And then from this goes like, Oh, because that’s dangerous out there, right? So that’s the other piece.

191
00:43:02.640 –> 00:43:08.040
right? But this is this has like a very deeply rooted reasons.

192
00:43:08.595 –> 00:43:23.879
For this state in our culture, and how we developed as a humanity, and how we do, you know, like, do do all those things. So it’s it’s not necessarily all, all bad and all wrong. It is again like, understand like, where did that come from?

193
00:43:24.080 –> 00:43:29.969
Right? And and once you understand this. Then that’s the 1st step

194
00:43:30.330 –> 00:43:40.419
to, then take a next step. And you know, like, okay, like, you said like, notice, like, okay, let’s notice nature around me like in a even in a city, right? There’s like these plants on the sidewalk. And I’m like, Oh.

195
00:43:40.670 –> 00:43:54.370
right! And and we have. There are a number of studies that show that when you have, like overgrown spaces, like a lot in a city environment that has been overgrown and taken over by weeds just because it’s been abandoned.

196
00:43:54.670 –> 00:44:00.639
When people have that near their home, their their their self

197
00:44:00.810 –> 00:44:05.080
self-registered depression levels go down by like

198
00:44:05.130 –> 00:44:33.799
30 or 40%. It’s incredible to see it. But I can tell you one origin of this type of disconnection. So I study under a fantastic teacher and researcher, Dr. Stephen Pope who works on mystical Hebrew. Being a Kabbalist, he kind of goes to the core of it, and he talks about. I had him 1st come because we were doing. We’re doing inside of the naturally conscious community, this entire

199
00:44:33.800 –> 00:44:44.110
research into the Garden of Eden story and kind of like looking at it through a plant lens, because you have the tree of life as well as the tree of duality or the Tree of Conscience.

200
00:44:44.110 –> 00:44:47.229
And he was saying, one of the biggest.

201
00:44:47.480 –> 00:44:51.310
There’s a lot of them in it. But one of the biggest mistranslations

202
00:44:51.420 –> 00:45:13.010
in the whole Garden of Eden story is the idea that the garden is a walled off space. He’s like it was never intended to be. This closed garden garden, in the sense of how we look at it today, which is a garden. Is this thing like you said, that has a fence, or this thing where I work in? He says the garden was everything like

203
00:45:13.010 –> 00:45:28.919
everything is the garden. And so the Garden of Eden was literally the space in which we lived period, and that mistranslation has created this idea. So the whole idea of expunging Eve from the garden

204
00:45:28.920 –> 00:45:54.990
like kicking out Adam and Eve from the garden isn’t a physical thing of. There’s this close because people ask like, where is Eden? It’s like Eden is not a place. Eden was a state of consciousness that we had a state that was, and so, when they were expunged from the garden. It was a state, a shift in the consciousness that created the separation, not a location.

205
00:45:55.180 –> 00:46:00.399
So yes. Do you have to be cautious? Yes, are there things that you know you have to

206
00:46:00.600 –> 00:46:07.850
be able to keep an eye out for? Because, you know, there are dangers that happen. But there’s dangers that happen everywhere.

207
00:46:07.850 –> 00:46:32.570
and so you always have to be aware of the danger. A car can hit you. You can slip in the shower. I mean anything like anything. And so, therefore the whole thing of awareness, if I’m aware, and I know my land, I know where my dangers are. I know where I’m most likely to understand. I don’t have to stay out of something I have to know when I can go into it.

208
00:46:32.620 –> 00:46:34.950
It’s kind of a subtle shift

209
00:46:34.980 –> 00:46:52.119
exactly. Exactly. No, no, I totally. By the way, this is, this is stuff that I really like, you know, like that. You mentioned mistranslations like, you know, like when something is translated from from one language that maybe is not used anymore to another than to another to another.

210
00:46:52.120 –> 00:47:05.380
And then, even within the language, you have a different interpretation of what you’re saying like, even if you have a discussion on social media, it’s usually like someone says something, and then someone else takes that statement and

211
00:47:05.520 –> 00:47:13.089
changes the understanding or definition of one word, and goes like, Oh, so you mean like, and it right?

212
00:47:13.190 –> 00:47:37.559
So if you stretch that across like thousands of years. And different like this is like, completely like, what did they even mean? Right? Exactly like you, just essentially making up your own story, whatever fits your your needs. Versus what was originally said like, this is, yeah, this. I like this stuff. I don’t know much about it. But I like this on the, you know, level like, this is fun.

213
00:47:37.640 –> 00:48:06.989
Yeah, it’s been fascinating, because with him we were again. We took this garden of Eden story. And we said, Okay, let’s look at it as because because all you talk about is these 2 trees you’re like, where are the rest of the plants, and one of my other professors, Stefano Mancuso, who’s like this, you know, a big professor in the world of plant intelligence and plant neurobiology. He always talks about how flawed the story of Noah’s Ark is because he’s like, where are the plants? And he’s like the whole, either

214
00:48:07.940 –> 00:48:23.699
you think of it as somebody screwed up and forgot about the plants, or you think of it as look how resilient the plants are that nobody had to worry about them. You had to worry about saving the animals, but you didn’t have to worry about saving the plants because we knew that they would come back and like. Deal with everything

215
00:48:24.390 –> 00:48:49.299
after the flood, and it’s just when you start to get into all of these stories, and you dissect them through like you, said the lens. There’s another fantastic book that’s where the Bible comes from. It’s a beautiful book. It was written a long time ago, but it goes through so many of these translations, and how the translations were commissioned by certain popes and certain things, so that they have a very specific view. That’s a whole other topic.

216
00:48:49.300 –> 00:49:01.700
That is. But all of this is like you said, it’s dominion, it’s separation, it’s all of these are layers of control, because again, the more the human feels

217
00:49:01.880 –> 00:49:30.409
insecure the more the human tries to control. So it’s almost like this self-perpetuating, you know, fallacy of. And this this myth that we keep kind of feeding into which is nature is scary, so stay away from it. But the fact that I’m away from nature means that I feel insecure. Oh, which that means I need to control nature, but the controlling of nature is what makes me feel disconnected from it. It’s like this super circle that we keep going back and forth

218
00:49:30.410 –> 00:49:35.940
into yeah, like, like, the idea of controlling nature is is

219
00:49:35.950 –> 00:49:55.230
such ridiculous thing, you know, like I would recommend the book called Wildlife in the balance, and I recorded an episode with the author of the book Wildlife in the Balance. I think the title of my episode is the same wildlife in the balance. Simon Mosto is is a name.

220
00:49:55.360 –> 00:49:59.310
and he just. It’s a wonderful book about

221
00:50:00.440 –> 00:50:13.360
essentially it. It connects nature and biology and ecology to the physical processes to the second law of thermodynamic to entropy. And you know, balance of energy on the planet and so on.

222
00:50:13.570 –> 00:50:22.610
And it’s a wonderful book, because it really makes you realize that the powers that the powers at play are so ridiculously powerful

223
00:50:23.130 –> 00:50:28.990
that humans talking about controlling nature or like this is just this is just like

224
00:50:29.310 –> 00:50:38.430
it’s stupid. It’s fun. It’s funny, like a little kid like, what do you want to control? I mean, like the whole thing governs

225
00:50:38.550 –> 00:50:53.810
is governed by second law of thermodynamic and the entropy, and all those things, and then the animals are, you know, they are able to move a little bit entropy back, but not really because they’re taking energy from the environment as well to do that right on a very basic level.

226
00:50:54.030 –> 00:51:10.379
So then, like someone rolls in. It’s like, Oh, we’re gonna like, no, you won’t. No, you won’t, exactly. It’s like, stop it. Just stop it. That’s just dumb. But that’s exactly how we are, you know. That’s that’s our thing. It’s funny, because in we started to. So since we

227
00:51:10.440 –> 00:51:33.679
have adopted kind of robin Wall Kimmer’s suggestion to use plant pronouns right or pronouns for nature of ki and kin instead of it to get away from the it. We had this big discussion inside the naturally conscious community around the word kingdom. Right? You know the plant kingdom, the human kingdom. And I know it’s like mixing words, but it does start to shift the way you think. So we use kin home

228
00:51:33.680 –> 00:51:49.770
like, you know, the home their home kin home, because the whole once getting into the whole world of dom and dominion, and sure there are beautiful ways of stewardship that come into it, but it’s still so much of it, for so many people is about control.

229
00:51:49.900 –> 00:51:51.570
and I think that

230
00:51:51.960 –> 00:52:06.169
going into the conversation of why, like recognizing plant intelligence is so difficult, is because it means we have to relinquish control that I can do whatever the hell I want over these beings. And so it’s always kind of goes back to the end of

231
00:52:06.490 –> 00:52:35.629
control. The more we try to control something the worse it gets. And so, therefore, even in our own lives, if you’re feeling insecure, you don’t cure that insecurity by trying to control something. You you cure that insecurity by learning about that thing, by becoming in relation with that thing, by having a different kind of relationship. That’s how you really cure it by getting to know it and being aware.

232
00:52:35.720 –> 00:52:59.450
Yeah. And it’s a funny thing that you mentioned that, you know, not referring to plants or animals as it. And I was, you know, because there’s like this specific. We talk about languages and the changes in like how things change. When you translate from language to language. I was talking with the lady from Estonia, and and she’s a leader of Estonia National Animal Group, which, by the way, is wolf

233
00:53:00.021 –> 00:53:10.570
and and she said like when she was learning English, she could, because in in Estonia, and they have, like you say they they’re using like a pronouns for animals.

234
00:53:10.780 –> 00:53:30.710
and she couldn’t understand, like the how how animal is it like? It’s because they because they have this, it like even some stones, and whatever have like like a living thing. So they they describe different things that are living. And there’s things that are not living like stone, or, you know, cup or something, and she’s like, how is this

235
00:53:30.770 –> 00:53:42.269
it she could like like this language is like strange, it is showing, but but but it again speaks to like. We see everything through the lens of

236
00:53:42.340 –> 00:53:49.770
where, how we were brought up, and what we were, you know, taught to understand things right and like.

237
00:53:49.870 –> 00:53:55.540
and even think like a language that you use like if you’re if you grew up in Estonia.

238
00:53:55.680 –> 00:54:01.480
and you’re using like Estonian language that treats those things differently, then

239
00:54:01.620 –> 00:54:20.639
naturally, your view on life, on animals, on everything, is different through the lens of your language, right? That speaks to the importance of diversity that if you have even like, even in the engineering team, if you have a people whose native language is different.

240
00:54:20.870 –> 00:54:36.419
they think about the problem differently because they think about that problem in their own language, and those little differences make them think different. And it really does make a difference that sometimes someone who is like, I don’t know. Bulgarian

241
00:54:36.650 –> 00:54:41.059
can figure out the problem quicker than someone who is British.

242
00:54:41.180 –> 00:54:47.160
not because he’s smarter, but because he’s like has toolset

243
00:54:47.390 –> 00:54:53.870
that allowed him to look at the problem like Tiny, like different angles, like, Oh, how are we do this?

244
00:54:54.010 –> 00:55:06.210
Oh, you’re right. It works. That is an episode in of itself, because this is a topic inside of the naturally conscious community. We talk about this all the time, especially because we have lots of different native speakers.

245
00:55:06.220 –> 00:55:26.879
and you know, and also we’re trying to learn plant, speak right. How is it that plants communicate and how they speak? And stepping into that plant communication the same as animal communication, and so many other forms of communication of non-human communication takes us out of that mentality. That’s exactly what it does. It helps us

246
00:55:26.880 –> 00:55:36.350
reprogram and expand our our ways of defining logic, because every language has their thing. Their way of saying this is logical.

247
00:55:36.420 –> 00:55:53.539
This goes after this. This goes into this. If you learn German right, the verb is all the way at the end of the sentence. It’s such a different way of processing something when you have, like the 1st verb at the beginning. But all the other verbs are all the way at the end, and you’re like, wait a minute. Where’s the action?

248
00:55:53.540 –> 00:56:10.140
And that tells you a little bit about the culture of how the action works. So imagine, when you start to communicate in a way a plant does, or in a way a horse does, or in a way, somebody, you know some other kind of being. It takes us into different ways of experiencing, and the more we have that

249
00:56:10.140 –> 00:56:35.109
the better it is because we’re more flexible. We enter into that plasticity, into that ability for us to shift and more. All right, I’m going to stop us here because we’re going to go off on another 6 different episodes. Exactly. And I have to say, and we didn’t even say anything about the native versus non, which is what we were going to talk about. But I think it was much better, I think, where we ended up was so

250
00:56:35.110 –> 00:56:51.950
so much better. So I am loving this conversation. I am so grateful for everything that we just talked about, and for the fact that we got to, we actually recorded it. Yay, for hitting the record button. And I’m super excited about this. Where do people find out more about

251
00:56:51.950 –> 00:57:16.280
wait. You changed the name of the. Podcast so you have to say, the new name of the podcast I was going to use the old one. But I won’t say it. Which one the new one, conservation and science. Yeah. So you just made it super easy conservation and science. Yeah, I always say, like, How do you find me like on this, like very app and very place? You’re listening to this podcast. Right. Now, just go in there and search for conservation and science. Once you finish listening to this exact, I like it. I like it. That’s super easy.

252
00:57:16.410 –> 00:57:39.649
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for this. This has been fantastic, and for all of you that are listening, I hope you enjoyed everything that we talked about and links to also his podcast so you can search for it even within the show notes themselves. We’ll give them to you, plus if you want to continue conversations like this, you know where to go, which is the naturally conscious community. This is the space

253
00:57:39.650 –> 00:57:51.029
for us to talk about the change in vocabulary, the reconnection with the plant world, and to all of these different small nuances, and to have you a safe space

254
00:57:51.030 –> 00:58:10.150
where you can slowly make these changes and integrate them into your body. And of course, if any of this subject matter resonates with you, you go check out, Tommy, and also come and check out all the work that I’m doing, and if you’d like to bring this deeper into your life, I’d love to talk to you about one on one mentorship and coaching.

255
00:58:10.560 –> 00:58:18.790
So if you’re craving deeper support, know that there is an ecosystem filled here for you to support you through this process.

256
00:58:18.900 –> 00:58:26.529
But that’s pretty much it for this episode. Remember to resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance

257
00:58:26.850 –> 00:58:28.789
we’re out of here bye.

258
00:58:29.380 –> 00:58:33.060
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom

259
00:58:33.180 –> 00:58:43.879
to continue these conversations. Join us in the naturally conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.

260
00:58:44.120 –> 00:58:53.889
Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the sprouts, writing and creativity group

261
00:58:54.240 –> 00:59:15.730
connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life, intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli and poinsettia from the singing life of plants. That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators until next time. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I’m out bye.