Ep.101 Living in the Mystery of Life with Jamie Harvie

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Hello, Hello, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me! Oh, my goodness! Oh, my goodness! This is going to be

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well, this is such a great, great conversation. I’m so excited to be so happy, so grateful, grateful is the right word to say, to be able to bring this conversation with Jamie Harvey with you, for you, with you, to you, whatever the right word is in this aspect, Jamie Harvey is somebody who

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honestly, and you’ll understand why, once you start talking to him super hard to kind of

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encapsulate into a single box. I mean, he is an innovator. He’s a strategist. He’s worked in the intersection between healthcare and community and ecological health. And yet he has this really technical background. He is an engineer, a civil engineer. He’s done collaborative leadership. He’s working on some amazing projects that are really about

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helping you embody and find gratitude for what are all of these different unfoldings with, and as a being of nature. And so I am just so grateful for this conversation. I know that you’re going to love it as much as I did, because it doesn’t.

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It doesn’t have this like

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defined. We’re going to talk about this, and we’re going to get there. You’ll see it. It has this windy, exploratory road, which is exactly what we were talking about. As a matter of fact, when we closed off the recording, we got into this big discussion about things like nature prescriptions, and the difference between giving you a prescription that says, Go out and take a walk 3 times a week in an environment that looks like this, and in reality just creates more stress for you of

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figuring this out. And oh, my goodness, I had to do at least 20 min, because, if not, my cortisol levels don’t drop, and all that kind of stuff versus the idea of how do I help you? How do I support you and enable you to create a lifestyle

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that is in harmony and in connection with nature? What are the fears that you have? What are the things that are holding you back? Where are the places where you feel most alive? How are you feeling? And through all this, and really supporting you through this process, and I think that that’s something that Jamie does really. Well, you know, he

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helps you kind of get into your feeling into that somatic body with those experiences that come from super technical, like an engineer, and yet, you know, and the whole healthcare and knowledge piece, but yet within embodiment, and a and a holding space sort of approach. So it’s really an

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an expansive conversation, and I’m super excited to be able to bring this to you. So let me let me not try to just preface it anymore. I’m just going to get into it. This is Episode 101. Can you believe it. 101

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living in the mystery of life with Jamie Harvey.

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Welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia. Nature inspired Mentor certified life coach and the founder of the naturally conscious community. For over a decade I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom, to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution. In this podcast I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Alrighty, Jamie, we finally made it. We made it here to this moment. Who would have thought, how is it that you came in. You came in through, I implant, didn’t you? You took, I implant. Yeah, yeah, I forget what it it was something that you were offering. So this looks kind of interesting. So.

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yeah, exactly. It was great. And I was like, I want to talk to him. I want to have a conversation with him. So after a few conversations, I was like, I want him on the podcast and so here we are, we’re here with Jamie Harvey, Jamie, tell everybody who you are.

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I know right, I said, who you are. I didn’t say what you do. You can add whatever pieces you want to in that I don’t know. I’m a

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dad. I’m a i don’t know. It’s just just someone dancing in this, you know.

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dancing in life, you know, trying to figure it out.

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But yeah, I love nature, and I’m in the woods a lot, and I just find joy on mountaintops. I love the feelings of the wind on my face sort of being battered around a little bit.

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I love being in community. I don’t know. I don’t know.

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All right, all right. I’m going to walk you through this, because these are. This is what this is, what happens. Just so, you all know this is what happens when you have done so many things, and you are so many things that you’re like, how am I supposed to describe that like, that’s that’s really what’s happening here? So, Jamie, you have a really interesting background relating to. Let’s just go for a second on your work background, just because it’s it’s really fascinating, like you have done

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so many different things. So can you walk? Walk me through? One of them, pick pick from like

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a project that you’ve been working on?

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I don’t know. I know the perhaps formal in, in the sense of, you know, getting a paycheck, that kind of thing.

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I was the president and executive director of the psychedelic Research and Training Institute.

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Yeah, tiny little thing where we train physicians and therapists on psychedelic medicine. So it’s just beautiful, beautiful work.

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And how did you get into that.

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So

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it’s not that I was psychedelic, naive, but it wasn’t. It was never a big part of my life, but a dear friend had

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had sort of started doing some trainings and needed some help around more organizational development and and helping think through organizations. And so he invited me in, and I very quickly sort of fell in love with this work, less because of

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the medicines, but more on how they opened up help. People see the world in a different way.

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and and I guess for me the the piece. And so I

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I was also part of faculty and and and our whole, you know what was exciting for me was helping shift and move our organizational sort of purpose, which was

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which I helped Shepherd in, which is reconnecting to the sacred.

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And and so it was the organizational purpose reconnecting the sacred self, community, nature and spirit. And for me it was this idea of this invisibility between all of these, that they’re sacred in life.

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and that we’re connected to this sacred mystery right?

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And and so I think

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what was also exciting was, I think, many people came into this work imagining they’d get their sort of formalized training, which you know we did have some Powerpoints, and we did have a syllabus, but we also offered ritual, and we offered ceremony. We offered time in nature and and for me to see

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as the walls as a vulnerability increase just to see the connection that is there always. But we, I think, put up some walls. It just like it happens. And so in my my work was really helping

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helping those see the intersect, like the intersection between their inner and outer landscapes. And I guess my take is that we have a world that’s extremely fragmented with people very, very lonely

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and so and so. And we created these systems. What? Which?

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Which continued to reinforce this idea of us of us as separate and lonely right, and that we can fill our lives with things right. And that’s how we find joy and connection through buying a bigger car or another, whatever the thing might be. And so you know. And so my hope.

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because most of my professional

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work has really been helping people see connection. That’s how I think of it, at least. And and the idea that we just can’t keep going to therapists like the lineups are getting bigger and bigger and bigger because we live in systems that continue to

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that are sort of really, I don’t think they’re purposely designed, but by default. They they make us into machines.

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Oh, yeah.

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And so it’s not as though I really don’t believe that there’s some big conspiracy where some people sat around and thought, Oh.

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let’s do this, but that’s the outcome. And so so you know, we’re living, caring. We’re built for connection.

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And so there’s no wonder that there’s a mental health crisis, that there’s like a physical like. Physically, we’re

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like, we’re having a crisis of humanity like, what does it mean to be? I think it begs the question, what does it mean to be human? And so all the crazy politics that we’re seeing? I think we’re seeing this poly crisis of, you know so many things are hitting the fan right now, and and for me

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I get excited, because

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for me, this is where I think there’s an aliveness that’s starting to wake up and connect people. But people like have been spectators in

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in in this world for so long that they don’t like. I think it’s scary to reconnect to what and how they’re sensing and what to do with it, and to in a way kind of turn away from what their culture is telling us. You know that you should buy this, and this is how what makes you successful and so forth. And at the core of it. It’s our connection to our

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to ourselves, to moving out of our heads into our bodies, connecting to our families, connecting to our communities right? And connecting to this joy of what it means to be alive. But I kind of digress, but but

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but I but I but I’ve worked prior to. I think one could call sort of psychedelic medicine mental health, but I think of it as as much bigger, and I think of it holistically. And prior to that I was doing a lot of work within the healthcare sector, leading efforts to pull toxics out, because decades ago healthcare was one of the leading sources of

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2 toxins, mercury and dioxin, which are persistent like thurine.

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They’re in your body, they’re in my body, they’re in the wombs of the community of life all across the globe, human and other.

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And yeah, the rest of community life are, you know, every pore on this planet has been filled with plastics and toxics. And you know it’s it’s it’s crazy and goofy. But healthcare is one of the largest sources. And so there is this like this siloing. And

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and and I don’t know how I got onto healthcare. But again, it’s like we have to see ourselves as connected and very quickly. The healthcare sector is like, Oh, I’ve never really given thought to what help happens outside of hospital walls.

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and they became allies in their work. So so for me, it’s always just been about seeing connection and thinking and being holistic. And do I operate like that every day? No, do I do like just like I don’t know if it’s like trying to. But that’s just kind of like a belief system. But

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there’s so many things that that force us to do otherwise. But as it relates to, you know.

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this organization, Prati, we were training therapists was like, we have to see that

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that our society is helping feed people who are in crisis. And so what then, can we do outside of our mental health clinics and our therapy offices, and so forth? And where can we engage, and

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you know we’re seeing it. We were talking before the show started around climate, anxiety and climate grief, and all those sorts of things like there’s an intersection between our inner world and our outer worlds. And so we’re in this beautiful opportunity right now to kind of seize this moment and and shift our consciousness to see

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see how beautiful life is, and and to build

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a model of relationship and connection. And I think at the core, that’s what drives me and gets me excited

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Yeah. And I really it’s funny, because, you know, knowing that your sort of formal training was like as a civil engineer, as a person who also is technically an engineer, you know, electrical on this side.

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It’s interesting. Because so one of my brothers studied civil engineering, and for me, civil engineering, I don’t know why, always come. Well, no, I know why, comes back to bridge building like there’s a piece of me that sort of when I hear civil engineer. The 1st thing I come to is bridge building, both physically bridging bridges. Excuse me, but also metaphorically building bridges. One of my clients is also a civil engineer, and

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you know she works with water loops. And it’s really about building the bridges between. You know how water flows and where water management and things like that in a more holistic way. And I really feel like I can feel that thread in you, and kind of the way that you

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put things together. Of how do I?

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How do I say this? How do I connect these various ecosystems together? How do I make these connections for people which I do think from a civil engineering? There’s like this piece of I build infrastructure that helps you move and get things done and and be able to it.

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And I find that really

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it’s easy to get lost in the minutia and in the mechanistic approach, and in the like separatist approach. And I really like that. The way that you see it is much more holistic. You look at it much more on a community ecosystem type level of.

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you know, we have to look at both our internal landscape and our external landscape, especially as you were saying with healthcare, where healthcare has been very much a I am an individual, and I take a pill, or I, you know, have this thing, and I have to then deal with that rather than looking at it in a wider framework of saying, I’m an individual. Yes, but who lives within a context

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that has a whole series of things around it? And what is my lifestyle? How does my lifestyle deal with my, you know, affect my health, my mental health especially. And how is it that, working both

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from inside out and from outside in, I can create the conditions for positive mental health, which is this area that nobody really talks about. Right? We talk about when we say the words mental health. We are usually talking about negative mental health, or what like Dr. Corey Keys talks about languishing right? We usually will deal with mental health when we think we’re in the negative side of it as opposed to how do we actually build up

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positive mental health, right, resilience, community, all of those aspects that make me feel like I’m immersed in an environment that is healthy, and that, of course, disruption is going to happen and blips along the road, and something bad can always happen.

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But because my overall ecosystem, internally and externally, is all healthy and is positive. And I have those nodes of connection. As you were saying right. I have all of these different pieces, and I feel this solidarity with myself. I feel like I matter. I feel like I’m somebody who’s contributing. I feel like I’m making an impact in whatever level and whatever way that that is. Then when something negative happens.

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I can kind of deal with it and see how to move through it. And I feel like this is still a topic that. And we’re starting to see it a little bit with nature connection and conversations. I feel like. It’s interesting to me to think that the conversation on positive mental health is passing through nature connection

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like it’s almost like it’s difficult to, even though it’s relating to much more than just I mean, nature connection is one huge element of it and feeling connected and feeling impactful. And all these different pieces. And it’s really interesting to me that

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even after all these years

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positive mental health is still not a conversation piece. It’s still not something that we’re looking at in that broader context. Did you find that there was a lot of resistance in the work that you know? Why do you let me ask it a more open question. Why do you think? Try not to put words in your mouth? Why do you think that we’re still as an overall society, having a difficulty of moving towards the concept of positive mental health.

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I I think it’s because we prize like we don’t. We prize intellectual thinking as more broadly right

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and and so so I don’t. I don’t. There’s so many different kinds of knowledge.

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and there’s like an embodied our sense, our feelings, and I think these have been discounted. And it’s interesting because, you see, over the last whatever 15 years, I see it less now. But

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all the you know, all the focus on stem, right? The science technology, what engineering math? Right? And there’s nothing wrong with that. But but it’s at the expense of the art, like so many other things that that’s why I like steam science, technology, engineering.

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arts and mathematics. Right? Well, there should be a few more letters in there, I think. And again we need both

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we need. We need both right and and but I I think

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I’m I’m a caring, sensitive male, right? Even as like walking through my life that has been hard to express. I haven’t felt fully comfortable always in that, because it’s seen as weak, or you know, and and so.

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you know, I’m in a 1. But I think as to your bigger, broader question is that we, I think, have lost our ability to sense in to what are like, what we’re feeling like an embodied sense.

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And so so I believe we we sense and feel with every poor poor, like every every cell in our body, but we’ve ignored that. We tend to discount that like what’s my gut? What am I really really feeling inside?

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And to trust that. And so I think for me there is something there, something in what I just said that is a bit of an answer to you. I don’t think there’s ever one answer. But I think there’s something that feels very core to your question of like, why are we? I think it was something like, why are we having this broad mental health crisis? Right? Because I think.

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like again, I keep going back to things right, like all the stuff we buy to make that which we think makes us happy. But all the science shows us that it’s our sense of connection to friends and family, and you know we we? And so

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but but we override it. We’re told to not trust it. We’re told to distrust, distrust what we, I think intuitively know.

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so I don’t know. We’ll figure it out. Yeah, you touched on something that I think is really important, and I want to call it out, because I think for so many of us. We think that there’s a problem again. Another one of those things that we think is a problem, but, in my opinion, is actually showing the strength, and so

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permit me for saying it in this way, and then, like I have a tendency to like blurt things out in the beginning, and then correct it, you know, not correct it, but give it. Give it the shape that it needs, because it actually fits that particular process. That’s into exactly what I’m saying, which is, I think, that that struggle for the words that you’re having, right as you’re like trying to put this this embodied feeling into words that we can describe, for you know in this setting that we’re talking about.

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and I think that that is the part that is not not

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prized enough or regarded. We don’t give enough credit or credit is not the right word. We don’t see the value. That’s maybe a little bit better in the fact that these things we’re talking about right now are hard to talk about, not because they’re hard, but because they’re embodied feelings that that walking through life.

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seeing it as this wondrous mystery

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as this beautiful magical place, the awe, the wonder, the feeling of impact, the feeling that I have a place in here because I am a being of nature, and I am a part of this, like I’m part of what makes this amazing is hard to put into words in a way that doesn’t feel frivolous or arrogant, or and all these things because of the

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way our language has kind of been conditioned and created where instead, as I’m walking, especially if you’re walking, I think, in any kind of out

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setting, or as I’m sitting here with my mother’s, I’m actually at my mother’s house right now. This is, you know, this piece Lily and my mother have. My mother is not a plant person in her mind. This piece, Lily is the proof that she is a plant person. You should see how like where the plant lives, how the plant lives like has become this big piece of her life. It’s the only living plant inside the house, and

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once this plant came into the house all of a sudden I started to see the sides of my mother, relating to plants that I had never seen before, and that doesn’t exist for her outside, because she didn’t grow up in nature. She didn’t grow up taking walks in wooded areas. She grew up on an island. She grew up in the city of that island. She grew up in a very urban setting, and so, as much as she can kind of admire. She has this.

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When I was living in the woods, she would call me and be like, why are you in the woods? We’re city people.

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She couldn’t figure it out. This plant helped me see that it’s an innate connection she has inside of her, and that has been conditioned out of her because she’s never had the opportunity to safely

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experience it. And I think that that changes how we, you know. I think that that’s another big reason why these wondrous ways of being able to be immersed in natural environments, whether it’s in a city park or outdoors, like the way you grew up.

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I think, is so important because it takes us out of the need to intellectualize everything, and it brings us into our body and allows us to just feel.

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And

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is it going to then rapidly transform the world? Probably not because you need to get the people to feel it because you can’t explain it to them. I could, you know, we do this podcast and I love doing this podcast and there’s so many things you know, that I can communicate, but at the same time so much of it is about. I need you said it right in one of our conversations. Being human, is not a spectator sport.

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I want you to listen to this podcast but I also want you to go out and experience the things we’re talking about in your own way, in your own format, so that that connection can be lived into the body. And for a lot of people, you know, who didn’t grow up with experience of nature. That’s really scary and hard. I mean, you had a beautiful, from what I’ve heard like, from the conversations we’ve had. I mean, you were raised.

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You had that benefit of being able to go and explore into nature. Right?

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Yeah. Well, there’s a couple of things you brought up one is that like, I don’t know if it’s my experience in nature that.

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like, was I born this way? Like like to be to sense in. And even like, how do we help people? There’s sort of something that feels presumpt. It’s hard to put my hand on it, and I’m not sure you’re necessarily trying to create an architecture and a you know, like

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but it’s hmm, boy.

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These are the moments I love. By the way, the struggle with the words, the struggle with the words, I love them. I love them, but I think when people struggle, it means that there’s something there, right? Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. I was actually like. That’s exactly how I feel. I’m like, oh, I love that that moment where the words are just I love it because it means it’s something there. It’s in your body. And you’re just like trying to feel into it

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like, so so like, obviously, I’m having a hard time answering your question. But I think it just I

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I I just I think it’s about honoring like.

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It’s not about trying.

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It’s it’s not even about it’s not about helping people. It’s like.

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it’s hard because there’s something that’s like, Oh, I’m supposed to help people, but it’s it’s sort of like it’s to see.

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boy I it’s it’s gonna

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there’s a presumption in that, the way that I think and feel should everyone should be. And I don’t believe that, but I personally do believe there’s this beautiful mystery in life, and I think I think the difficulty.

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you know there’s I don’t know. There’s a sort of a scenario you were describing a few minutes ago, where it’s like, where where somebody is like, yeah, you feel, and you don’t know what to do with it. And I think it’s like this is the thing is that we’re so science oriented. And you know, this is part of the whole scientific revolution, where I think, like

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church and the mystery. And all these things were like trying to help us. Humans navigate the world. And science suddenly came on board what a hundred 50

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plus or minus 200 years ago, and that provided an explanation we so desperately want to have like to be able to see where we’re moving. There’s something

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I don’t know. Is it being human? I guess. Maybe, like there’s that part of us that wants to be able to see where we’re moving. But the forward but the reality is everything is, if

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is a mystery, right when it all comes down to it, everything is a mystery. And to hold that in ourselves is so hard. So when we’re when we’re asking or inviting or suggesting that people kind of sense into something that they may not be familiar with. It’s like, what do they do with it? It’s scary. A mystery is scary.

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And so so maybe it’s it’s about

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just doing what we’re doing here and just talking about it. And there’s even a science right? There’s complexity science, which is suddenly, perhaps because of the craziness of our times. It’s a science that that basically says there’s a mystery.

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And science doesn’t explain everything

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right. There’s actually a science that says life is a mystery. So it’s like, Oh, what do we do with that? Right?

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And so and so I think it’s likely normalizing, like normalizing that. Yeah, we have feelings, and sometimes we don’t know what to do with them, right?

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And it’s to normalize that. Yeah, life can feel pretty scary at times. Right? So how do you hold that fear? And how do you hold like the fact that

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that we we still are able to move through so far as a species

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in relationship with other species on this planet, right? And it’s this crazy dance. But I think it’s it’s not to discount it. It’s to honor it. This mystery that’s around us, and I think, at least for me, it’s about celebrating it.

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It’s about celebrating it, because for me it is what connects us all. It’s like this.

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It’s this this big sea of I don’t know.

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It’s this Life force you call it love. I think some people may call it God like. I don’t really care what the term is, but there is.

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It’s it’s the magic that you see when a little seed pops out of the ground, or when you, when you, you know

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I love the what, the naturally conscious community. And you know the various books that pop up. And it’s like what we’re learning now, which I think in some ways, you know, there’s this beautiful book by Zoe, I’m blanking on her last name, but the light eaters right. Schlanker. Is that her last name? Yes, it’s like

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again. What she does is synthesize all like the science that in some ways has been like, repressed, because

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what it does once you realize. And now it’s sort of out of the box is that plants can feel right. They can hear, they can sense. They may do it on a different timeline than you and I, right, but but once that is out of the box, and that these aren’t just these things, it’s like, Oh, my goodness, like, what does that mean? Like we’re actually in relationship. They’re watching us walk down the street right? They’re sensing us. They can.

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They can sense light. They operate in ways that we have no idea. But there’s they’re alive and they’re feeling. And they’re sensing. It’s like, Wow.

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and like, how beautiful is that cool?

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But it’s also. But what does that mean like when we’re suddenly? It’s like, Oh, shoot! We have to be in relationship with like with other beings like we have a responsibility. And one of my teachers, Thomas, who is who has reminded me like this. The word responsibility, I think, is

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like, I think, or at least I think of it as like oh, a rule. But he helped to reframe the word like an ability to respond so we can choose to respond to what does it mean? Right?

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But wow! But it opens up like a whole other way of seeing this world.

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and it’s quite magical.

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Yes, to all of it. I’m reading. So as part of the Plant Wisdom Book Club. The book that we’re currently reading is called chase mimosa. And it’s basically we weren’t really sure what we were getting into. It’s very interesting, because it’s kind of the history of the psychology of plants or plant psychology as

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by somebody who doesn’t really believe plants are sentient. At least, we’re kind of coming to the conclusion. And it’s very interesting because he starts this journey, this kind of almost academic journey. But he starts at the time of Plato and Aristotle. It’s like this question.

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and Plato and Aristotle’s time we talked about. They talked about mind in reference to soul. To them mind and soul were 2 sides of the same coin, and which is again another thing that our current modern science has separated out and turned soul into a dirty word. The idea that you know, because that means that mystical power, that unexplainable part of yourself.

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Right? And then mind is the important part that we have to dissect and understand, and cognition and sentience and consciousness, and all these different things that even those you know, when you look at certain theories of consciousness, like panpsychism, still have that mystical

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kind of element to it. But that mechanistic science is still looking to, to whittle it down to. Well.

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you know, because, biologically speaking, we can explain what’s happening, then that must mean that it’s not, you know that there’s no consciousness or sentience. And it’s really interesting. And it’s interesting to think that we, as human beings, are still 2,000 plus years right when we think about Aristotle and Plato almost 3, you know it was 2,500 years that we’re still having these random arguments about something that in reality we should be should bad word.

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not being presumptuous, but like something that is so inherent, and

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that living in wonder and in awe doesn’t mean living in ignorance. I think that that’s a big piece. I think that is that element, that mystery and wonder and awe is not. I’m ignorant. It’s I’m fascinating. I am living in that curiosity. I’m living in that.

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that gratitude for what is unfolding in front of me, and I think when you live in that from that natural connection as you were talking about, I do think it just spills into every other aspect of your life, because it doesn’t mean. I don’t feel eco grief or eco anxiety. We were talking earlier that I went yesterday to at the time that we were recording this yesterday to the premiere of a documentary

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that I’m in called good natured, and it’s the exploration of this filmmaker, Ash Stokes. It’s her journey through Eco-anxiety and Eco grief

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and the beauty of it is that as she walked through it, it’s not that she tried to get rid of it.

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It’s more of wow! The wondrous

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beautiful connections that she made along the way, and that she made with nature, because it’s all about her journey through this from a natural perspective.

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and how she how she realized that? Yeah, she could live in that ego grief.

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Or and you know that eco anxiety, or she could live in the wonder of what’s unfolding, and therefore from there take her cues on her steps and what she’s supposed to take. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t have moments of feeling it right. You feel it that that grief is still there, but the wonder allows you to go through it. It sort of holds you.

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and you feel held one of the microbiologists that spoke was talking about all the fact that we’re really 90% microbes in our body, which means we’re 90% as human beings, 90% of us as foreign entities that live inside of our body and that make up our body, you know. And so she was like, remember, you’re never alone, which goes to exactly what you were talking about relating to the plants all around us. You’re never alone. And the continuous message that we keep.

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or the continuous kind of realization as we reconnect back to nature as we start to understand the physical nature of our own body, is that message over and over again.

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You’re never alone.

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You’re never alone. You’re always held. You’re held by microbes. You’re held by our plant friends. You’re held by all the small animals that are around. You’re held always and allow your you know you can. You can give yourself permission to

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kind of almost fall apart in that holding.

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and allow yourself to just go through things and allow yourself to unfold in that, and to know that you’re still that that’s part of life, that that’s how we move forward. That that’s how we. That’s how we just are. That’s how you can be in this whole situation. That was very, very philosophical, and I don’t even know if it made sense. But it’s it’s what was feeling in that moment.

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If there is some, you know, in many of my talks. I, you know I give talks around the country and so forth, but I always bring up that. What you brought up the fact that we’re more non-human cells than human cells. But but the other piece is that we we have receptors in our brains for microbes in the soil. And so, like as we’re eating food. They go down, they go up, or you know our gut brain access, and it begs the question, then, of who is in control of our thoughts.

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Oh, I have to say that I’m jumping in, because this morning I was reading Chase mimosa, and I was reading through it, and and they were at a part that we’re talking about that. And for the 1st time I sat there and I said, Wait a minute.

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The consciousness that I’m currently talking to myself with is the consciousness that we think of as my consciousness.

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But the fact that my gut

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effects like, if I eat something I don’t have to think. Send immune system, you know. Cells here. Send. Send this here like there is an entire other consciousness

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that is equal parts me, that is, having a whole conversation, and is deciding things relating to my body. And all of a sudden, I went on this rabbit hole, thinking, you know, when you stare out

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out at like some beautiful tree for a while, and you’re like looking up in the clouds kind of coming through in the sky. And you’re realizing. Oh, my goodness, I am simultaneously 2 consciousnesses, consciousnesses, the consciousness. I don’t even know the plural. I am 2 of these, and I the one that is thinking right now doesn’t necessarily have access to the other. And am I supposed to like? Should I

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have conversations with my gut and try to bring to this like connect these 2. 0, my goodness! I went down a rabbit hole. I think I must have been staring out the window for like 35 min, just with all these thoughts going through me, it was actually quite

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inspiring, because it was like, Oh, my goodness.

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even all this argument we’re having about plant sentience and everything when I’m not even recognizing my full sentience.

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I’m not even realizing that I am so much more than just this mind thought right now, this brain part that’s coming through, and that maybe Plato had it right when he was talking about. You know, these 3 sort of types of consciousness that we have within us. Rabbit hole rabbit. Very fascinating rabbit hole.

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It’s what happens right? It was beautiful. It made me feel more alive. I don’t know it made me feel more

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more than human like. It was like a moment

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of feeling my more than humanness like you said that 90% that more that part of myself that’s not human cells inside of my own body. I felt like there was a spark of a possibility that one day I can communicate with them.

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and that, and that I could bring that. No wonder we feel like we’re missing parts of ourselves. We are. We’re not communicating with all parts of ourselves. It was like this realization of that hole that we think sometimes comes from trauma which it can, and it can come from past life trauma, and it can come from present life, trauma, and it can come from this, and it can come from that. But it also can just come from the fact that there is a huge part of what makes me human that is inside of me, that I have no connection to.

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Maybe if I spent some time which is not even the divine part, or I’m not even going into woo. I’m going into like straight up science right straight up science. Let’s use science for science.

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There’s this part of me that I have no connection to. And wow, maybe that’s the reason I feel a void. Maybe that’s part of it. And what would it be like for me to spend time kind of like gratitude for my gut health, and asking those microbes like, Hey, how do you and I start to chit chat? Can we get some tea?

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I don’t know. That’s that’s the way my mind works. Rabbit holes.

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No, but there. There is something about

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you know, I think, honoring those parts of yourself and and sending them gratitude. And you know

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you know

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I have a sore back at times, like we carry a lot, you know. So it’s like we forget that what all the parts of our bodies do and help us out every day in the same way that we often forget what our our partners and our family and our friends do right. And so I like a lot of this, I think, connects back to gratitude, even as it relates to.

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you know, plant sentience or and and and and animals, and and another beautiful book right in immense world. Ed Young’s work on

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again. Bring it alive like the umwelt, the the fields of perception that that the you know

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the the four-legged, the two-legged, the crawlers, the flyers, and everything all have like it’s it’s it’s it’s mind blowing. So as as we sit out on the lawn, or in the city park, or on your balcony on an apartment building. You know there, there are birds that are seeing you and communicating and signaling to others, and and to to the squirrels, or the chipmunks, or whatever it might be around. There’s this whole field of communication that’s happening. And

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and but but I think, as we can see this as something beautiful.

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and then we may be better off as a species, I guess. Yeah.

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But but gratitude. Gratitude is a really powerful force.

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It really is. And so many of these things we’re talking about, it’s again going back to the fact that our society is based on the principle of discipline and focus. And, like all of these things that are supposed to be hard to do. And yet, when you step back into the gratitude. And that connection piece

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you just naturally do the right thing. And from a Kabbalistic model. There’s kind of this premise of you know when I’m in gebburah. I do the right thing, because somebody tells me that’s the right thing that I’m supposed to do. You follow the laws. It’s justice. It’s all these different pieces. And in hesit I do the right thing because I want to do the right thing for others. I do it from mercy, and from this perspective, but the balance of these 2, the flow between them and tefer it is. I do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.

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and nobody has to tell me what the right thing to do is because I feel

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like from that connection point the right thing to do emerges for me, and it doesn’t matter who’s watching me, or whether or not I can get punished for it, or whether or not I’m going to hurt somebody else’s feelings. None of that part is the main focus, because I’m so in tuned that it becomes this like flow into that direction. And I think that’s that’s kind of that. What you were saying of, you know, living in the mysteries of life is living in the mystery of life is when you

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allow yourself to have that, all that wonder, that gratitude, and then you let that

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kind of be your guiding star. Right you. You allow that you trust yourself enough that you can kind of

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this connection becomes the thing that guides you towards your next steps. And sometimes you know, as you had said earlier, like sometimes you know exactly what steps you’re going to take, and other times instead, there’s this deep feeling of allow it to unfold.

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and it will become clear over time. It’s kind of like as I was reading this book, this chase mimosa book for the Plant Wisdom Book Club. I’m reading the book, and I’m and I’m

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recognizing parts of it that I feel are extremely important. But I’m not very good with, you know all the scientific names and all the dates and stuff. You know, we’re in the right now. We’re in this in the part of the book where I am. We’re in the 17th and the 18th

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18th century, and I’m like, I’m not going to remember all of these names. And so at some point I stopped and I called in my plant business partner right now, Noel, the Christmas cactus, and I literally stopped, and I asked, Noel, I’m like Noel. I know that in this there is information that’s important for me. I don’t know what it is like.

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I’m not. I can’t highlight it and identify it, and I’m and I don’t want to get overwhelmed, trying to memorize dates and times and all these types of things. When I don’t. I don’t think that that’s the important part. So help me tap into an alternative form of logic that I have

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like this non-human side of myself to grasp this in a different way. So I’ll still keep reading with my kind of human faculties and my eyes, and my understanding of English, and you know my grammar and my synthesis, and my own scientific pieces that I’ve learned to highlight here and do this there. But please help me

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go beyond that to use senses that maybe I don’t know how to bring online yet. I’m not conscious of how they go, but I know that they’re there so that I can. As I keep developing, I can recall this information when it’s important, and I can integrate it into the things that I do. And I got this feeling Christmas cactus. I just felt like.

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you know, Noel, attached to different parts of my body, and sort of enveloped me, and like saying, I’m here like Noel doesn’t talk a lot. So all I heard was, Yes, to be honest and so, but I could feel this like I took a minute. I closed my eyes. I took a deep breath. I made the request I asked. I got a yes, and then I could feel this wrapping. And then, as I was reading, there was a calm

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because I wasn’t getting overwhelmed by all of these dates and times and everything. I felt like there was something beyond that that was helping me

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that didn’t necessarily 100% come from the outside. It was almost like Noel was triggering something inside of me, helping me reach parts of myself that I don’t yet have access to. And again, I think that that’s that mystery that you’re talking about. Also, it’s recognizing that there are some things that are just outside of the way that my brain processes, things, and yet feeling

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connected or or connecting into that, and being able to access it even without being able to give it a

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a clear definition. And I don’t think I’ll ever have. I mean, maybe I will, but I don’t think I’ll ever have a definition, and it’s not important. I’m not looking for a definition for those types of things. I’m looking for that experience to feel it to be in it. I don’t need to sell it to anybody else, or tell anybody else how to do it. I can’t, because each one of us is going to do it in a different way. I can share my experiences, and I can hope that it’ll encourage you to

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again. Not be a spectator until I try things.

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But I can’t tell you I don’t have a methodology. Years ago I tried to put together kind of like, oh, maybe I’ll put together a naturally conscious framework

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after I just started. I was like this is not. This is contrary to everything that I believe, which is, there is no one way, there is no, here are the steps that you take in order to become naturally conscious. It’s this journey, and all we can do is by like you said, these conversations. We share experiences. You tell of things that you’ve experienced. I tell of things I’ve experienced, and somebody else grabs a nugget from there and then takes it off in their own direction. That’s

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I think that that’s the best that we can ask for in all of this is, you know, how do we?

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And how do we normalize it like normalize all the parts of it that are non-describable, that don’t have words that maybe I’m just going to do an interpretive dance, and I hope you understand what I just did. You know those types of things? How do we make

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this type of of of sharing which some people might be able to?

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Wow, I just realized something.

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I just had this realization when we did in the Plant Wisdom, Good Club. The mind of plants as a book. I don’t know if you ever read the mind of plants? But mind of plants is made up of multiple stories from A to Z. Each author picked a plant connected to that letter like A for apple, and you know, P for passive flower. And all these different.

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and wrote a story around them, and some were extremely technical, like some people, wrote almost like a scientific paper, others wrote some story of their childhood with that plant, others wrote instead an experience they developed with the plan like there was all kinds of stories. And I’m just now realizing the

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these multiple like now, anyways, I just kind of like the penny just dropped. And I understood. Oh, that’s the reason it was so varied. Type of thing.

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See how it is. We we figure things out at some point.

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but I do think it’s more of an exploration than like a destination. And that’s it. There is no one destination. It’s just the exploration of life. It’s how do we fully embody and live that life in any which way.

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Okay, I’ve gone off on my philosophical tangent. This has been a lot of which I love. I think it’s great. But before we go I do want to ask you, because I’ve asked you about. You know things you’ve worked on in the past. I would love to hear about. You are working on a project right now, and I just want to hear a little bit more about this project, which is, you know, the one secret Earth project just because I love the title like, What is this project? Is Jamie up to now?

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Well, I’ve got a couple of things. One’s the aliveness initiative which you know we can talk about, maybe another time, but it really touches on what we are discussing here. But the one Sacred Earth project is

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I think I’ve always been curious as to it. Gets to kind of what you were asking earlier on in the show around

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like, how do we get people to do something? And I, you know.

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like, I don’t know. I forget exactly what it was sense in or feel, or how do you get them?

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Because I deep, deep. And you know this is years ago, when you know.

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when I was doing my work with healthcare on leading this toxics campaign like, and and did this whole food system work.

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And and

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I never. I don’t believe people want to hurt or do something to someone else. Right? I really I just don’t.

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And and and we can go into the reasons why I think that is. But at the core of it. I just I just don’t. I just don’t believe it. But I was walking. I was walking with my my wife and I. We were walking with a friend in the woods, and she was sharing. How

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about whether we’d heard about this? She was going through some relationship issues and asked if we’d ever heard of the book, the love 5 love languages which I’d not heard about, and she described it as how you know. Often couples don’t like have the same love language, and and as a result, they don’t sort of see how they’re actually caring and showing gratitude for one another. And it was like, that’s kind of interesting. And I was like, huh! I wonder what or

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if and how we might have different love languages for this planet?

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Right? And so so

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I had this idea of doing something that I now call the one Sacred Earth project. And basically you can go online and onesacredearth.org. But you can go online and and

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and I’m now making this more public. But I’m curious about whether on the solstice, this coming solstice, we can have people around the globe organize their own efforts around one sacred earth. And so here’s what what the invitation is, but it doesn’t have to be on the solstice, but I just sort of thought it’d be kind of fun because it connects us to the, you know, the cycles of

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the earth around the sun, and so forth, but

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and seasons, and and so forth. But the really, what the one sacred earth project does is it invites you to sit quietly, and it asks you 3 things, what in the natural world? And for me it’s often interesting, because

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what is the natural world? I would offer that you are part of the natural world right? But we often go to plants, and you know, but when the natural world are you grateful for? And then I sort of had a little parentheses, right or no. So that’s 1 question, what in the natural world are you, or more than human world are you grateful for.

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and then then I ask why? And then I then I invite them to say like, and these are the parentheses. How does it make you feel like, what like? What does it like? How like that peace plan that you know? How does it make your mom feel right?

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And and and then the 3rd is like, how do you show gratitude or thanks?

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So at the core of it, it’s also kind of a gratitude exercise.

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And so I collect these like, and they can get submitted online to get stuck in a big Google sheet. But the beauty of this is that you can actually create an invocation. I give thanks to this peace plant because it makes me feel calm and relaxed, or I give thanks to the oatmeal, you know, like it can be whatever right. And so you can create an invocation.

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And then, a couple of years after that, I was reading in breeding Sweetgrass, a beautiful book by Robin Killimer, but

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and the Hadesani nation actually, you know, and I don’t know. Perhaps other indigenous communities also have this, but they will use an invocation in

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before their meetings, and sometimes can go on for hours and hours and hours, because, like man, there’s so much to give thanks for. And it was like, oh, this is kind of funny. I have the book I have the little book with, like the the original prayer, but but it but it can be co-created right? And so it’s sort of funny that it kind of came organically out of this kind of crazy

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thing in the woods. But so I’ve done this with, you know, the Academy of Integrative Health and Medicine. I’ve done it with Prati, the psychedelic organization. I’ve done it with like universities and so forth. And so they co-create

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an invocation. But the real beauty is, if you even just do it with friends, and the beauty for me is when you sit

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and you assemble, co-assemble it together, and you ask the questions, huh! Like, what’s nature like? Are we nature or not? We have these defined terms, and just the discussion is like, Huh! What did you? What surprised you about this process? And invariably everyone was like, Oh, my goodness, I’d never really given it any thought

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right. But some people are just like this is like this has changed my life now every day I say Hi! To that tree, and it calms me down, and but there’s not a right or wrong answer.

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but invariably everyone says like, Wow, I’d never really kind of given it thought, and this has changed me. But sometimes, as a group will discuss sort of these assembled gratitudes. Really, they will say, boy, it’s really hard for some. Some people say I

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really hard for me to say what it, how it makes me feel.

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And and then there’s a really cool discussion

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around that like, huh! And for some people. It’s like, really, it’s like, and you know, it can be helpful to have it facilitated. But it’s like how people it’s for some. This sort of touches on what we’re discussing before, like like what the difficulty for some people to sort of share like where and how it touches them.

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And again, there’s no right or wrong, right? But but it’s just a really beautiful process. And it’s really fun, because I’m connecting with people all around the globe. And

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and so if anyone wants to participate, they can do it online. But there’s the real invitation is to do this wherever you are in Florida, where you are right now, back home in Italy, in your other home you probably have a billion homes around the planet, right? But but or anyone else who’s watching to just self organize, and there’s some instructions on how to do it. But

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you don’t. You can just do it online, but it’s but

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but it’s and and I guess the other piece is to learn how so many people this is the other part. That’s really fun in the conversation, because some people think Oh, you leave a little note for your flowers, so do I,

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right?

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And you know often in town I live in Duluth, Minnesota, right now, and you come out, and you you’re up on the ridge, and you see the lake, and it’s the most beautiful thing. It’s just spectacular.

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And in my head it’s like, I’m always saying like, you’re so beautiful like, and and but often in a conversation you’ll find that other people say, Oh.

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you do that too. And so, in a way, this is to also help normalize it. Because in a group, when people realize that they’re not the only ones who feel a little connection, they’re not the only ones who feel moved. They’re not the only ones who like might leave a little gift. Right? You realize that there’s this hidden underground feeling and connection

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to this more than human world, this beautiful planet Earth, to which we are a part and intimately woven and like what a beautiful thing that is. And what if? What if

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it became normal to just acknowledge that and live it every day, instead of sort of hiding it and make it feel like what we’re doing and saying is totally weird because it’s not. We’re all doing it. We’re all in love. We have love languages for one another. And this planet. And it’s a beautiful thing. So it’s an invitation.

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I love this. And I’m definitely going to be including everything in the show notes. So you will have the links so you can find the one Sacred Earth project and also your liveness project. And we didn’t have a chance to talk about it in detail. But I am just so grateful for everything that you just said, Jamie. Everything that you just that you shared because it is true. It’s about

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recognizing that we you know you’re not again. You’re not alone like you’re not alone in doing this. You’re not alone in feeling these feelings. You’re not alone in that. Once you have others around you, and you recognize that you’re not alone in this.

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then hopefully, it becomes a deeper part of your life, because you kind of again give yourself permission. It’s not something that’s weird or something in that negative sense. Well, I am weird, but in a good sense. But it’s not something that you have to hide. Let’s say it in that way. And so thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Any last

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before we wrap this up any last second second things that you want to add.

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Not really. It’s just a delight. It’s just a delight having met you and and walking this walking, this journey on life right with you, and and look look forward to more conversations with you and others in the community, and and and and on the various paths in this journey of life, and what it means to be an ecological being. So yeah.

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that feeling is 100% mutual, and everything you talked about is exactly the reason why, you know, I founded the naturally conscious community. It is that space where all of us can come and express and share and recognize again that you’re not alone, that there are others, and that there’s many different ways for you to express this. So if you’re looking for this type of community, if you want to

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a place, please go check out the one secret Earth project, but also come in, and you know, tip your toes into the naturally conscious community experience what it is and all the things that we have going on there, the deep conversations, the meditations, the ways to communicate with plants and other beings, and just all the different things that are challenging these old ways of thinking, that you have to be one way. But instead of giving space

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to the wonders, the mysteries, the multiple avenues that exist in life. And again, if you’re looking for any kind of personal guidance. If you want to bring this deeper into your life, and you’re not really sure how or maybe you have some beautiful projects, and you just want to kind of give them a little boost of energy. Remember that as a nature inspired mentor and coach, I am always here for you all you have to do is just reach out

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and let’s have a conversation of how we can co-create something beautiful together. So thank you so much for listening for being here for exploring all these ideas together. You know we’re learning from the plants, but we’re also learning with the plants and those mysteries and wondrous ways are going to carry us into

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exactly what we need to co-create for this beautiful planet that we live on. So thank you so much for this episode. Please remember to resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

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That’s it. And for Jv, we’re out bye everyone.

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Thanks for tuning in to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom

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to continue these conversations, join us in the naturally conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.

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Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the sprouts, writing and creativity group

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connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli from the singing life of plants. That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators until next time. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I’m out bye