Ep.104 The Answer is in the Food with Samantha Jewel

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Hello, Hello, everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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This episode just took so many different turns in a great, great way. I so much enjoyed speaking with Samantha Jewell, and I’m sure you’re going to enjoy it, too.

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The conversation that we started with where, you know, kind of going in one direction ended up tumbling into a very connected, so much so that when I was sitting about the episode what I wanted to call this episode. I have like a list, because we were kind of weaning, not weaning, winding through a whole series of conversations all around the idea of

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carbon and soil and soil, quality and relationship with land and farming.

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and what started off as something very detailed, like like soil. And the idea, I mean, and the idea of what is carbon sequestration ended up becoming this super beautiful, expansive conversation about relationship with land and your relationship with food, and how it is that true nutritiousness or nutritiousness? I don’t even know if that’s a word. So this is episode 104. The answer is in the food with Samantha Jewell. Joy

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welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host. Tigria gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach and the founder of the naturally conscious community.

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For over a decade I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom, to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution. In this podcast I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Hi oof.

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So we have had several conversations, Samantha, but that’s just us. So I want to remember to do the most important thing, which is, there’s so much to talk about relating to you. Tell the audience who who is Samantha Jewell? Okay.

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So my background is primarily food. My family created the 1st restaurant chain in Australia in 1965. So I have been in food literally all my life

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and raised very alternatively. So we were, even though it’s a very. You know, we were doing 50,000 customers a week when I parted ways with the business very big. It’s like before Mcdonald’s, where it got huge recognition here in Melbourne, and my father came from 6 generations of wheat farming in Goodland, Kansas lived through the dust bowl of the 19 thirties. His family, so I’ve got all these unusual

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connections around food. And in 99, 98, 99, when I was having my 1st baby or actually a bit earlier than that. 97, or something. I

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came across the most extraordinary news of mad cow disease. And I thought.

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how, why would anybody feed a cow meat like that’s just the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. And because of that, because we’re feeding all these people, and I was pregnant. I was doing all this I was kind of like

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God like, I better look into this. So I spoke to my father at the time, and he was like, Well, I know that these unusual solutions come up for problems, and because he’d witnessed the industrial age and the children of farmers being sent to university learning all about agricultural chemicals, and it actually causing the droughts and dust bowl.

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As a result of this technology that was wrong for the soil, he was very much like, Yeah, go and find out what that is. And so I wrote to all of the

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everything that came into the restaurant, and I rang everybody. I wrote everybody, and I found these things like they didn’t know what was in their ingredients, so they’d say sugar was in it, and I’d say, Well, I’ve got this letter from the sugar board, which was one of the ones I wrote to, could you? And it mentions they use a Gmo in it. So I discovered about Gmos. And so this kind of snowballed. This went on for years, and they were like, Oh, could you send me that document? And gradually, over time. Some of these the industry started to realize that there was a

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people were not so happy, and about the same time I had heard in America because I was very interested in mental health.

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and I’d heard that they were feeding children as young as 6 months old. Prozac in America. I know they do crazy things in America. But this was like what like a behavioral problem, you couldn’t

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make that up. And so I was like, it’s got to be food, and that’s kind of where I went down this rabbit hole I ended up in agriculture because

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that’s what they were doing. They were glyphosate had to be had been introduced as well about the same time. And so it was kind of like this snowballing thing of allergies and

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problems in children that weren’t there before. And obviously now, 25 years later, it’s not quite commonplace for people to say, Oh, glyphosate is so bad it’s still in everywhere. But it’s not like I was at that time screaming in the wind. Oh, you’re a kook, so

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you know, that’s kind of about where I started, and I have been looking for a unifying point for all those years, because, you know, everyone comes up with

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some reason to say No to everything. And and so I at about 2,006 or 2,005. Actually, I was listening to a I was at one of the International Forums for Organic Agriculture.

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because they were the only ones doing any sort of protocols of monitoring paddocked plate, and somebody said about carbon. And like I went, what’s carbon? And it was like

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this was the unifying thing. So I bought the 1st soil carbon credit in its draft form that actually got the Australian Government recognizing it as a trade because I used the company credit card.

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It helped give it credibility. So, as that part that path began, I

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thought, this is fantastic, so I was so sick of the infighting between all the different organic people, organic permaculture, biodynamic, I mean, they’re all carrying on about.

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I’m like you guys all with the same thing. Why are you all arguing about how this is done? So I was really pleased to take this unifying element and see that you know whether you believed in climate or not, it was the solution to measuring healthy soil

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and all the other things that come with it. Water, penetration.

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soil, health, plant, health nutrient uptake mycorrhizal facilitation microbes. I mean, it’s just it’s across the gamut biodiversity. No matter what you look at. It all comes down to carbon so that became my.

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I thought, well, this is easy. This is a plant this is, anyway, and ever since I’ve been trying to get farmers paid for it which has not proven to be easy. People are always coming up for the reason why they don’t want to do that.

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Wow, just like you said that unifying factor. So I guess I have 2 different questions. One of them is a clarification. Just when you say people pay for it, you mean pay for carbon credits, or for how much they’re sequestering like, can you break that down a little bit further, just to make sure we all understand.

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Obviously, everybody knows that climate change is theoretically associated with the emission of carbon into the atmosphere, and carbon in its solid form is, you know, Co, 2 2 parts oxygen, one part of carbon, and the plants take it out of the atmosphere, and that’s what they use to create sugars which they exchange for food and nutrients and microbes, so they take it out of the atmosphere and put it into the ground. They also cycle it back out in the top sort of part. It is an exchange, but

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the more penetration, the more open the loam of the soil is, the deeper the roots go, the more it gets taken down deep into the ground, so that

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credit is a measurement of how much carbon has been taken out of the atmosphere above and beyond what’s normal.

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So the area is doing. The average is 0 point 2% carbon, which is nothing right

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or 0 point 0 0 1 or something crazy, which is really where our soils are at globally. This is what everyone’s talking about

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in terms of soil degradation.

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If you’re doing something like you’re managing animals, and you’re doing all these different things, and you’re getting increased carbon, which is a proof of your ability to get the plants healthy and actually doing what they’re meant to do.

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You can measure that. And so once you’ve measured that, that becomes a data stream that can be converted into a numerical number, it’s 3.6 7 times a solid ton of carbon

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to be.

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How many tons of

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atmospheric carbon you’re taking out of the atmosphere. So if you’ve got one ton of carbon in the ground. You’ve just taken out 3.6 7, and you’re so, anyway. Yes, that was my background with it. I had been trying to see what was going on in the food I came across. Carbon carbon credits are easily measured, and then I’m trying to get them paid for those tons of carbon taken out of the ground

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into the ground by their activity. So it is a paid amount of money for doing something above and beyond what’s normal.

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So, yeah, that’s the whole point of it.

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And so here’s a question for you. So what in your experience? So of course, we can go and look it up. But in your personal experience, what is the difference like? What is the relationship between

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that higher carbon sequestration and the quality of not just the quality of the soil in terms of like the soil is healthier, but literally, you know the microbes in the soil, the plants that are in the soil like, what is that relationship?

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It’s a bit like, imagine I call it. The cathedrals in the soil, which was actually, I recently realized was coined by Walter Jena many years ago, but it’s the cathedrals in the soil. It’s about imagining.

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How could you have people over for dinner and in the pouring rain, if you didn’t have a house with a roof over your head

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like you need the space it creates the space. And from that point that’s where everyone comes to dinner. The microbes come to dinner, the water can come and feed them, the nutrients can be translated. Everything can occur. That is because the carbon is there, creating the space and the sponge for the water to be able to be absorbed, which is 4 to 6 times more water can be held with carbon in the soil

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instead of running off. So there’s this, there’s lots and lots of stats for you. Go and watch that movie I just told you about which is online rootsdown under.org. There is a video in there which actually goes into the exact numbers of gallons per.

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you know, per tonne of carbon that’s increased

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right? And so for increasing of the carbon in and of itself, what what happens like? Again, what is the relationship

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with, for example, the plants. In other words, what is the farmer doing different? That is what’s creating that sequestration enhancement. It’s the plant doing the work.

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But the plant needs to eat, and it gets its food from fertilizers. The fertilizers are the animals. So the animals move across the land. They poop, they poop and they pee, and they they basically provide food for the microbes, the microbes, the micro

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the mycorrhizal fungi are doing this exchange, using the sugars from the plant that it’s creating from the Co. 2. The C is carbonic sugars, and they’re exchanging that. And there’s this constant exchange, this for that, this for that. So this

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this exchange of sugars and carbon is what allows plants to have nutrients in them and those plants and those nutrients which become colloidal nutrients. So you think of a rock.

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and you break it down with microbes. They turn that into a liquid form which goes into the plant. The animal eats the plant, and then we eat the animal.

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and whether you eat the plant or the animal, the point is that those minerals which are the main stable nutrients we talk about vitamins, a lot, and fennels, and all these other sort of things. But the thing that’s really essential is the minerals, because the minerals are the building blocks of the DNA in your body, and without them

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everything kind of collapses, so it’ll get water up it, and it’ll be become dependent on the plant will have like a tap root and get water. But you’re basically using a straw instead of these fine filamental roots which are absorbing all these micronutrients. So that carbon is a reflection of the whole system working together

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right? And what do you think is different between? I I mean, obviously, we understand

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the benefits to the human in this whole carbon cycle and such. You were just talking about, how the plants themselves also benefit when everything is working in this way. What do you think is the changing? What is it that makes these particular farmers different like? Why is it that these farmers.

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what is their relationship with their land with the beings of their land with, you know everything that we’re talking about that ends up creating this nutritious cycle all the way through. Yeah, look, I would say that there are lots of different ways which farmers come at it. Some come at it because

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they’ve gotten sick from the chemicals. They’ve had a death in the family, and they just have to do something differently. Others do it because they see the birds are not there anymore, and they need to create a habitat for them. Everyone comes at it with a different reason, but as they start to connect, for whatever reason they got into it, their heart, and their mind starts to open up, and they start to observe the land instead of using their mind about

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the science. The science has been, has kind of made us go into this silo. And as they start, let’s say, letting go of the science and moving more directly into interacting with the land. That’s when they start to get this

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understanding. And you know, things like these more intuitive things that we’re talking about. They’ll all have them the more they walk on the land the more they have it. But they have not been allowed to experience that, because we’ve been, what is it? 2, 300 years now that we’ve been trying to move away from that. And so I think this is the age of the Aquarius where we’re turning around and going back towards that with the scientific data that we’ve collected, so that we’re marrying those 2

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concepts of understanding what it is that we’re listening to and not just guessing

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right. Are there any farmers that stand out? I’m just so curious like, are there any farmers that stand up in your mind that you’ve had conversations with where you’re like, wow! That is not the type of connection that we would have expected in like industrial agriculture. Yeah. So there’s a couple of farmers that I work with in Western Australia called Dianne and Hegarty.

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and they’ve got a because they worked with this girl called Jane Sattery, and they worked on this intuitive, developing this intuitive stuff because they came from a period of time where they worked with the aboriginals and started to be opening themselves in terms of understanding that there was more.

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And now they are absolutely developed that muscle, that intuitive muscle, and they test all the time, so the land might say, like they do use some chemicals, so they may put in a crop of wheat or lentils, or barley, or something, and the land might say, no, we don’t want that in now.

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and so they’ll have to do something else. And they have this yin yang thing. I kind of touched on that part of it, but they really developed it by becoming more and more confident, and when they don’t listen to that, don’t listen to the land talking to them, they get bad results, and when they do they’re getting world class results. They’ve now got

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Stella Mccartney takes the wool from their sheep and sends her executives out to Western Australia to go on the farm and see it, and when I 1st went there I was doing is back in 2014, or 15. I was doing soil tests on them, not soil, sorry grain tests so doing. Wheat

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and I was finding things in them that I, you know, from my scientific background point was going well, that’s not good. But then I later found out that actually, it’s the ratio that’s important. The balance. So I didn’t really understand the scientific balance part of it, because there were such minimal, tiny amounts that were different, and wheat and all those things we pay for them on different

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metrics, so we might pay on protein, or with a vegetable on weight which might just be water. Or, you know, like we’ve got different metrics about what the farmer is paid for, and the payment is the most important thing, because that’s what keeps them alive and going. So it’s difficult to have a change in that it’s got to financially make sense. So a lot of it’s about showing them there’s a way of taking the chemicals out, and that that costs that saves them money

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on their bottom line, and they get resilience, and they get, you know, if we have a flood or a fire, they bounce back when everybody else doesn’t or they don’t burn. Or you know

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many things that there are there anecdotally. And so yeah, I think the Hegartys are amazing. I’ve seen and

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took to Gabe Brown in Kansas, and he’s known for his book dirt to soil.

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look, there are some amazing pioneers, really, and I’ve been on this journey for a long time now, since my 1st books in 2,005, and I’ve never stopped being fascinated, and I don’t farm anything. So, you know.

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I can understand that. I mean, it is an amazing experience, especially because, you know, these farmers are spending all of this time in that land. In that experience with these beings, and of course they could look at it as just a.

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you know, physical object to a certain extent. Right? Yeah, it grows. But it’s it’s, you know, it doesn’t have anything any meaning to it. And then there are other farmers that we know that have, like you said a more

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heart centric, more a connection with these I was we were just talking about down the in in the area that I live. A few years ago this couple moved in. She he is originally from this area, was born in this area, but and she is a Korean American.

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and they met working at at a restaurant called Noma, which is one of the like world famous restaurants for fermentation.

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And that’s where they met and they got married. And all these types of things as they were working with Noma and Noma is, you know, very, very much about reconnection with the ingredients through this fermentation process. So this slower process of connecting in. So they move here to the middle of nowhere, where we live to a certain extent, and that’s exactly what they want to do. They’ve built this sort of farm to table, this very small farm to table restaurant. But one of the things that I love is like what they’re doing is

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accentuating that relationship with those farmers. Right? They’re going to the farmers and asking them, how is it that you’re relating to your land. And they’re finding all these amazing products of this area that are based on based on those relationships and those relationships, whether it’s, you know, with the animals on the land or the plants of the land

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are like you said, turning out to be when you start to do the scientific kind of assessments. It’s like, oh, wait a minute. These relationships are directly related to better sequestration. You know the quality of the food, the nutrient density, all of these thing that I would say, though on that is that that is what we always hear.

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And the thing is, if we’re going to make a change to the climate and human health, and poor people having access to healthy food. It has to not just be the small farmer.

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It has to be the Broadacre guy with like that farm I’m telling you about is 40,000 hectares. So it needs to be those big big farms with big tractors doing big monoculture that have actually worked out how to work with with nature, so by rotating

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other things through it, multi species, plants, and animals, and doing many different things to get that nutrient cycle through it, because I always say it’s a bit like having a beer or a glass of wine. You know it’s a neurotoxin, but if you’re healthy. It’ll do nothing to you like you’ll just handle it, but if you’re not, it’ll just about kill you. So you’ve got to look at the land in the same way, it can take a lot.

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You know, what are you doing? And and can it be replicated on a large scale? Because we do have 8 billion people. And otherwise, we’ll just keep doing factory farming

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right? And I think that that’s a great point. And I think that that’s that’s the question of the scale. Right? We? How do we turn this into something that is the relationship is one to many to a certain extent. When you think about the farmer perspective like the farmer, one too many that are on this land and the land is huge?

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Or how do we create a different kind of model that allows us to be fed in different ways. And that that is a great question. I mean, yes, you’re right for the large industrial farmer, the one that are doing it. We have to make it work because it can’t just be something that we only focus on.

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I do wonder sometimes about. I mean. So when I did my master’s, we had a big conversation, because there’s an area here called one of the oldest inhabited cities in the entire world called Matera is down in the south of Italy, and one of our professors was an expert, and he was originally from Matera, and he’s become an expert on

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the Madeira is still a troglodyte to a certain extent city like, in other words, there’s still the underground homes inside of the caves, and they have the original caves that cave people lived in, because the city has been inhabited continuously.

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and one of the conversations and one of the problems that was the downfall of matera was the was the agriculture when it became

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imbalance to a certain extent. In other words, the relationship between the people was that there was some stuff that was grown out there. In other words, the people would leave their homes in the morning and go out to farm and stuff like that. And then there was other parts of it that were farmed. Quote unquote, farmed at home, right, the local garden that gave me this, this and this

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and that ratio for a long time was very balanced. In other words, these are the things where I need large swaths of land, large amounts of animals, and do the agriculture, and have the relationship in that way. And instead, this is the stuff that you should be growing at home near your home and stuff. And I wonder how much also, is that we’ve lost that relationship. We grow nothing at home, and we expect everything to be done

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on this level. And it’s like, maybe there are some things, some plants that don’t want to grow in that way. And that’s why we’ve had to move into this more artificial way of doing it. So I agree that we definitely need the large scale agriculture for many reasons. But I wonder if if there’s a different balance that needs to be struck in this whole thing in order to create

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not just the sequestration on the large farms only, but sequestration all over the place. You know right, that our land is fertile everywhere. There’s a couple of things with that the thing about the plant music and the

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and the plant

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stuff that you and I have been speaking about in terms of reading plants is this is what the Heggertys have done on a very large scale by listening to the plant, to their.

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to the land.

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The plants have interacted with them in the way that is giving them that crop that they need, and also they are giving back to it in the way, and I think it’s the giving back part. That is the bit that’s missing, because the land can do so much more like we’re not actually

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really understanding the

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vast, almost infinite potential of the land. And I know that sounds ridiculous because it sounds very

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finite. The land. But the more you understand the

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let’s say the matrix, like quality of the of the of the planet, the more you understand it’s it’ll do its thing with no guidance. But when we add our ability to create into it and

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kind of make magic within it, it can do so much more. And

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I think that’s kind of the next stage. We’re just moving only a little tiny, tiny bit towards getting that. You can’t keep pushing and raping the land, and we’ve actually got to start working with it. But that next stage is still a bit of a ways off, I think.

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Okay, wait. I want your vision of that next stage. Because that’s I’m so I completely agree. I think this goes back to what some conversations that are finally starting to happen is the core concept is not to throw the humans off the planet. Because, oh, the planet is fine. We co-create. We have co-created this planet for those 200,000 years that we have existed as Homo sapiens. You know we have been co-creating, and before that

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all of the other, you know, humanoid type species that have been coming on. Our problem is that we’ve stopped the co-creation process at some point. It’s more than that. I think, that we’ve we’ve been oblivious. We’ve been asleep.

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and so we kind of almost have. I mean, if you look back historically, civilizations have come and gone based on the soil.

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like every civilization has gone because they didn’t look after the soil. They just took it for granted you throw a seed in. It grows you didn’t have to do anything. Then they moved on.

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So

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it kind of when we almost need to get to the brink of extinction before we recognize our the need to wake up. And it’s not that the planet can’t do more. It’s that we have to do more in terms of our own

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conscious awakening. So

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I don’t even like using those words because they’ve been bandied around so much. And people talk about doing ayahuasca. And I go and do ayahuasca. I’m like, well, if you lived in the forest, and you had to live

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on the forest and listen at that acute level of understanding. I think Ayosco would be a really good idea, but I go to a supermarket, and you know I don’t need to go and do that, and so I have no need for that tool. And in fact, it’s a distraction, because it’s not the way I interact. So I think the

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concept of what we are doing. You know, you talk about this disconnection from the land. My feeling is that you know right now the economics are so vastly

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unaffordable for a person to even have land for most people on the planet. They can’t even have land, let alone interact with it that way. It’s like, walk on a concrete path. And they maybe look at it. And don’t you step over on the boundary? Even so.

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you know, I think it’s

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a 1st world dream that most of the planet, particularly when you go to countries like Asia with 1.5 billion people or something, and you tried to say you should do anything. It’s like, no, I think

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when things become overwhelmingly difficult in the paradigm that we’re thinking through.

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it’s a good time to just pause and remember that we, as spiritual beings, are actually the creators of the planet. We create the matrix that is this universe. And so if we want it to be differently, we start with the universe within ourselves. And we get that right? So it’s about expanding from yourself into the universe around you and creating it differently. So when you say, How do I see it being this way.

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I think I think the climate is the best thing we’ve ever had happen, because it’s like people are going. Oh, my God! It’s so bad! The glaciers are melting, the sea is rising, everything’s dying, and they can now start to see it. It’s not just

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someone

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calling the skies falling in chicken level. If they’re literally feeling it happening. And it’s more than just a little bit. It’s really getting bad. And yes, I don’t believe in listening to doomsayers, because I know that everything can turn around, even if it seems like it can’t. So my message, if there is one, is that I believe in the Infinite Power within us all to create the universe around it in

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whichever way we want to. We just haven’t yet woken up to what we’re capable of.

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Yeah. And like you said, especially our institutions haven’t. So where, you know, we, we start to hear a grumbling. And there are, as you, said some farmers, but then farmers feel going back to the whole land. Perspective is like, I know that this is the way that this is the way forward. And yet at the same time, I also need to survive. I need to be able to to support this work. And I think, finding that right. You’re not even going to say it out loud, because you live very remotely.

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and the guy next door is going to snub you at the pub, and the woman won’t get into the

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girls meetings, and you know, like it’s that’s survival being in that community right? Totally agree with it. So I feel it’s it’s to take a leaf out of people like

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Well, Steiner did. He didn’t even tell people about biodynamics until the very end of his life, because, he said, people weren’t ready, and I feel that’s kind of the

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journey is like. If

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if people are ready, they’ll seek you out, and if they’re not. Don’t push it on them. Just keep working. Yeah. And it’s all about these labels which is so funny, like how much we’re afraid, as you said, of labels. There was a great research study done by Natasha Myers, and she calls herself a plant, and she’s awesome. And you know, one of the things that she discovered as she was going out as she was interviewing sciences, is exactly what you said. The younger scientists struggled with

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trying to put words around or even use any kind of wording, or even accept that there was things that they felt intuitively, or, you know, could experience or even be connected to like. Maybe the plant is communicating in the research that I’m doing. The plant is the one helping me make decisions on which way to go, and it. And the intuition is not just mine, but it’s a co-creation, a relationship that’s happening

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where older scientists that had tenure that had years of experience, that knew nobody was going to take away everything that they had created. They didn’t have a risk of losing it all because somebody misunderstood the way that they spoke.

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They were much more open to saying, Yeah, when I’m sitting there. And I’m trying to figure out what direction to take my research. Sometimes I’m getting hit with something, and I know that’s not coming from me like I know that that has to be coming from the plants, and I think that that’s the same thing as what you were saying with the farmer. Right like, you’re not going to go talk in your community if you think you’re going to get snubbed, if

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even if the others believe it and feel it themselves. But the fear that that is going to cause me to lose contracts. It’s not going to play well into a larger space. Yeah, it’s survival. And it’s really interesting. Because I think this is my own experience. Also living. You know, I live in the Alps, you know, at the foothills of the Alps, and really close to us, there’s a few towns that

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are very traditional in the way that they do their animal husbandry. Here I have pasture lands in front of me, where they transition from the Alps through to the plains, and so throughout the year I get cows and goats and sheep, and all kinds of different animals, plus the way that they even just tend to the fields. Now, if you sit down with like you, said, a beer in hand, and you have that conversation with a nice, beautiful glass of Italian wine.

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After a while these folks are going to talk to you about their experiences, and you realize they’re not using conscious heart open. They’re not using any of those buzzwords

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right? But that is exactly what they’re experiencing, and they will happily tell you about it in these very reserved terms, because they’ve been doing it for generations, generations upon generations. But you then try to take that and sell it like you said to a larger industrial system that values statistics and stuff, and they don’t have

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the mechanisms to measure all of that. So this back to carbon. Because this is why I focused on carbon because it’s an emission, and it’s something globally. We are now putting on our accounting books.

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If you’re doing the right thing by the land with your heart, with your connection, you’ll be getting more carbon in that land, and if you’re getting paid for that.

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money talks right?

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So then you don’t have to talk about how you do it. That’s the one great thing about it. It doesn’t really matter how you got it there. If you’ve been doing it through the actual activity of the plants as long as you’re not going out and getting, you know. I disagree with the concept of going and getting Biochar and putting it on. So you’re burning plant matter to put it back on the ground. I’m like, okay. Well, yes, you can do that, but we’ve got enough of it. Get out of the atmosphere. So it’s it’s just. It’s more about

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making it accessible. And I think what you’re doing with your glass of wine. This is making it accessible

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right? Right? And I think that’s a beautiful way of saying it, and that’s, I think, for those of us that want to see. You know the labels that say organic and made in this way and are looking for certain types of buzzwords. It’s it’s probably difficult. But, like you said, if we’re going to make the transition, the transition happens.

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using, unfortunately, the language that currently speaks, which is the language of money, the language of certain types of statistics and numbers and stuff of this nature. And I know we don’t want to hear that. But if we’re going to eventually transition where we go back to a culture where we can talk about these things. We’ve got to pass through the systems and start to break down those systems from the inside out. And the 1st thing is to make the farmers soluble. In other words, they need to be able to survive and be able to do the wonderful things that they’ve been doing.

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Do you find that there are.

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Let me try to figure out how to how to say these words, because it’s a hard question to ask. I’d love to to hear from you.

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What do you think are the tools that the farmers themselves? And by tools I mean communication tools, or you know what are the tools that they can use to get their what they’re doing, those of those that are doing the right thing.

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How do they get that out to a larger audience like, what? What do you think are the things that they need to learn? I know it sounds like I know what you’re asking me, but I have to say the proof is in the food.

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and if they’re getting

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good nutrients in it, as we get more ability to actually scientifically read those nutrients that nutrient density and the resilience and the quality and the durability, and all those sort of things, and the actual things they produce.

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I kind of think that’s still going to be the one, the main way that they will communicate what they’re doing.

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I mean, you can talk with all the things that we’re talking about with the intuitives and stuff, and if someone’s open to it absolutely. But I wouldn’t start there. I think you have to start in this crossover with the scientific.

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and luckily the Bionutrient Association have been working. Dan Kittred has been working on this for a good 10 years, and they’ve now got labs testing stuff for farmers that can show the nutrient density that can hopefully give them premiums. But even if it doesn’t give them premiums, that’s where I’m working on the carbon so that the price doesn’t have to come up anymore, because people are not going to pay more.

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They haven’t paid more. They’re never going to pay more, and they’d be right if they had to pay more, and they couldn’t get access to food. So my feeling is

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if you can get them paid with the carbon through the carbon market. Then it’s kind of a no-brainer for farmers to want to do it.

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Okay? Then I’m going to ask a question. That’s a little bit different. But so in the world of flower, pardon me for one second to just set up in the world of flowers. For example, I remember when I went to Chelsea Flower Show many years ago with the music of the plants. It was the 1st time the music of the plants was ever showcased in Chelsea Flower Show, and I was warned before I went. They’re like as a plant lover for loving plants as beans. You are going to hate Chelsea Flower Show, and they were absolutely right in London, because

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so much of what you see at Chelsea is forced. Slave labor of plants. In other words, I’m going to feed you all this stuff.

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you know, fertilizers and artificial stuff in order to make you look beautiful on the side. And then exactly exactly. And then you’re going to die right after. Because if you watch the last day of Chelsea flower show, it is gut wrenching how much these people who purport to love plants

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do not love plants. They will like literally just rip them, throw them away. Thailand. The exhibit of Thailand literally flew in 2 planes worth of of flowers throughout the course of the week, because, in order to have them fresh, knowing that they were bringing in a whole ton in order to just kill them like they didn’t have any intention to keep any of these flowers alive.

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So beauty, unfortunately, as we also know in the case of women is not always something that is done healthfully.

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So what in the relation like you said? The answer is in the food, and you were talking about nutrient density. What do you think of the real? Obviously carbon is one of the big ones. But what are the real indicators of health? Not just. I have a beautiful apple, but like no, this was was, you know, this apple grew in a way that is

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healthy for the farmer, healthy for the plants. There’s a relationship. And these are the indicators that show me that it’s not just round and beautiful. But there’s other indicators that show the real relationship and the health. That’s why I’m saying the nutrient density tests that are being done and nutrient density. And there are spectrometers that are coming out. But they need thousands of tests done. So they’re not at the point where they’re at the handheld level.

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So I am going to say that it’s still a ways off. But nutrient density from a human point of view is about as close as you’re going to get. But it’s been a bit like how beauty is going away from Red Lipstick to you know your age group wants everything natural. I mean my son, who’s 20

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6 now.

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He doesn’t like his girlfriend to wear makeup.

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and none of his friends do so. It’s

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it’s a change of fashion. It’s a change of

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what is perceived as beauty. So yeah, it’s the ugly fruit movement where it’s like. It doesn’t matter if the fruit is ugly, come down to as well. Even if it’s ugly, it will come down to it like when they put in their mouth. It tastes amazing. Now, I would say, that isn’t happening like, if I go out and eat an organic apple. It doesn’t taste good.

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I can go to a conventional

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like, let’s say, top end grocer like I’ve got an Italian grocer up here and everyone goes. Oh, they’re so expensive, because.

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you know, they don’t mind what the farmer is doing. They just want the best, and when you put it in your mouth. It’s amazing.

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So you know, IA number of organic places that I have frequented and supported because I believe in the movement and the food’s terrible. It’s not just ugly, it’s terrible.

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And you know, I know, because of what I’ve written in my books. I know that the insects are designed with an opposite alimentary canal to a human, to a mammal, because they’re there to eat the stuff that mammals shouldn’t be eating. So if it’s bug holes, and it’s it’s missing nutrients. It hasn’t had that relationship. There’s a lot of very bad organic farmers out there.

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so it’s much harder to grow without chemicals. You’ve got to really listen to the land. It’s a whole other level of intuitive. There are some amazing conventional farmers and amazing organic farmers. There’s also terrible ones in both so names and things are not what it is. We will eventually start to read our ability

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to feel food, because we are just like cows and every other animal. We have a biofeedback, but we’ve used our brains to stop that. I mean, I think it’s kind of fascinating we were mentioning before we went on, about ayahuasca. I think it’s fascinating that there’s such a huge

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proliferation of people doing it. I mean, it’s a terrible thing to do that tastes terrible, apparently, and they do all these. I mean all these terrible things they have to do. I’ve been around a lot of Ayahuasca people because they all think I would do it, because I’m so into talking to the plants, and I’m like, no, I don’t do anything. I’m sorry. I just

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talk to them. So it’s it’s just

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It’s that.

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I think there is an awakening going on, and people are not yet willing to be brave enough

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to actually just reach out with themselves.

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They have to go through a via. They still have to go through something else rather than just go directly. So I mean, that’s why I like this plant wave thing because it’s a

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very unintrusive, but it’s still a via to get the, you know, and even I went like when I connected it to my willow tree, and it started to sing to me. I was like.

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exactly exactly. I just I do understand even I.

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I love that. And I think that that’s so true. That was something I learned when I 1st moved to Italy, and I started to look around. I started to go out to the farmers. Of course, you know you’re taught. Go look for organic. But I’m in a complete agreement with you. I’m like, just because you’re organic doesn’t mean you have a relationship with your land, either. You can be just

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as strong industrial architecture, I mean architecture, agriculture in the way that we’re talking and be technically labeled organic. And here, you know, I have people who come from other countries who might say, Oh, well, is this organic? And I’m like. No, it’s local, and I know the farmer and I know the relationship that the farmer has, no matter how big their farm is. But I know what they’re doing. And that’s more important than the label, because that’s what’s really going to give us that

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that density of that nutrients. And, like you said, you’re going to taste it. I’m going to go a step further and tell you that the work that we’ve been doing what we’ve observed is it doesn’t actually even matter what the farmer is doing on the farm, it’s where is his consciousness at?

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So the the animals and the plants are actually servicing the human.

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and if the human is in a state of bliss consciousness, and particularly if they’ve got a partner and they are happy. The land, every land I’ve gone onto with. The husband and wife are happy.

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the land has been happy, and that that

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the more they’re able to beam that joy of existence into their land. It beams it back.

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and it will tell them what it needs or what it doesn’t, and that need is a bit like the beer we were talking about. We know it’s a neurotoxin, but sometimes it’s wonderful. And other times it’s not so. It’s not about the physical reality of the universe. It’s about

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what is bringing you as close to joy as possible. Following your bliss is a very important thing to do.

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I could, I mean, I think, that that’s that’s the perfect way of explaining it. I think that that is exactly where we need to move on all levels. And I think that it’s not like you said. It’s not about the size. Sure we want to.

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We want to believe that the small local farmers doing it better than the other. But that’s not it. And again, if we’re going to feed the masses that today are trying to go to the supermarket, we need to get all levels of farming to reach exactly that level of what you’re talking about to for them to feel comfortable enough, secure enough, even economically secure enough. I was just going to ask you. I was about to you just sort of preempted the next question I was going to ask, which is.

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tell. Then, everybody. Tell us, tell us about the book. Tell us what’s in the book. Why is this book? Who is this book for? Tell us everything?

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The book is really designed for people who know nothing

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like most people that are in the regenerative agriculture. Space will know what I’m talking about in here, but I’ve tried to make it simple. I’ve tried to make it for the conventional farmer, the governance policymaker, the carbon trader, the lay person who doesn’t care about anything.

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and I have to say, I gave this book to a farmer in the sugar industry, and I had just been doing a whole field day with this machinery. That’s all heavy and like the irony of what I’m doing and what the machinery thing that I was attending was about, and he said

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he said, I haven’t read a book in 30 years, he said. I’ve got triplets. I’ll never read it.

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And I said, Look, I’m told it’s a 4 h read, and I don’t want it to be complex, so I’d really love your feedback.

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So he rang me twice.

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wants to tell me. I can’t believe it. I’m halfway through, and it’s 2 h, and I’m still reading it. And then the next time he rang me to say, I just want to say Thank you, because I didn’t know I could learn any more about the land after a lifetime

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as a farmer.

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So that was so touching for me. So I have to say it’s for everybody. People think it’s for the farmer. But I’m like, Yeah, it’s for the farmer, but it’s also for you you eat. Everybody is involved in the land and the soil. And it’s not this mystical thing. It’s complex. There’s a lot of elements around it, but it’s worth learning about it. It’s something we should be learning about in school. Really.

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actually, you just said something beautiful, which is, it’s something that is important. We’re all like connected to farmers. We all, to a certain extent should have a level of understanding and of knowledge around this whole aspect of life, because it is fundamental, you can’t eat without it. And so, therefore the idea that we’ve

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pass that on to somebody else and said, Well, I don’t need to know how it works, because, you know, I’m not the farmer. And it’s like.

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but you eat. And you live on this planet. Yeah, yeah, you eat. You’re involved, that’s all there is to it. Exactly.

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Show it to us again.

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Okay, now, I just want to let you know I’m running out of disk space. So the computer’s getting slower and slower. This is my book, you can find it as an ebook on Amazon, so you can download it, or as on my website, samjew.com, which I believe clicks through to the publisher, which is Camd publishing. And you can order the hard copy.

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And you can also get it directly from your website. Right? Well, the website clicks through to the publisher. And they do okay for the publisher. Perfect.

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I don’t printing so. And I might get round to doing the audible. But it’s so hard to do. I just don’t think I can do it. It’s 4 h, it’s 4 h. No, it’s not 4 h of talking aloud. It’s 4 h of reading. I know, I understand. I voiced over a few books, and I’ve translated a few books, so I totally understand.

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And actually, this week we have the the week that we’re recording this. I have the next discussion for the book that we’re reading right now as part of the Plant Wisdom Book club. And so you’re right. It’s like

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speaking it out loud. And and reading are 2 different things, 2 completely different things.

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And this has been so wonderful. Are there any last words that you want to tell the audience?

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No, I just think that it’s a journey worth having.

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and you might be quietly surprised by how fascinated you become once you take small baby steps towards it.

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I love it. I love it so much. Thank you so much for this conversation. I am very excited to get everyone thinking about this in a completely different way, and so thank you. Thank you for the work that you do, and let’s get it out into everybody’s hands. Thank you.

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Wow, right? Wasn’t that amazing? And it is true? The answer really is in the food. Food is, what is the indicator? What is being shared from the plants with us? And I think it’s so important for us to look at it that way. You know honestly, everything always turns out to be about relationship. We’re not meant to do any of this alone. We are meant to co-create on the land

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with the land as the land. We’re all beings of this. And the plants know this, and they’ve been pushing us in that direction. Right? They thrive in relationship, and we thrive in relationship. It is all about relationship. And so if you are also looking to make decisions to bring more of this naturally conscious thinking into your life.

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I’m going to give you 2 ways to do that. And they are related. One is join the naturally conscious community. That is the place where we are having these conversations.

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It’s also the place where you can support this podcast and conversations like this, every single day. We are having the book club, the writing group, the master classes, the classes all different ways for you to expand your knowledge and interact and co-create the vision of the future, that we want to build together. And then, of course, if you’re looking for more personalized support, I’m always here here for you. I love working with multi-passionate conscious.

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you know, nature, friendly people who want to create a whole new paradigm. And so all you have to do is just book a call with me, and we can talk about it. So everything you need is in the show notes. There is information about Samantha Jewell. There’s information about me. There’s information about the naturally conscious community. It’s all there for you. So if you are ready to take the next step in your future, we are here to support you.

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And so that’s it. That’s it. For this episode. I am so excited about what is coming in this coming year. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging greed brilliance.

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No matter how crazy things are out there, there is a path forward, and together we’ll find it.

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Thanks for tuning in to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom

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to continue these conversations, join us in the naturally conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.

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Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the sprouts writing and creativity group

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connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life, intro and outro music by Steve Schuley and poinsettia from the singing life of plants. That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators until next time. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I’m out bye.