Ep.105 Solo Together with Penelope Mavor

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Hello! Hello! Hello! Everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me Tigrilla Gardenia.

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I is the loss for words one of those super

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enthusiastic conversations that I just can’t wait for you to hear and to share this with you. So Penelope Maver is somebody that I spoke with a long time ago. I don’t even remember how I met her. I think I met her online. I really loved what she was doing. I wanted to get to know what she was up to, especially with her whole earth converse, which is the name of her business and her work.

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and it’s all about this conversation with the earth. And so she and I had a conversation not that long ago, and decided that I just had to bring her on the podcast I had to have you here, and we were all set to have a conversation about how this process that she goes through this, this understanding of being intimately expansive with the land in which she lives in and such. And now that we got into this conversation, we

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we we touched on something else, which I think

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is what I love about doing this. Podcast what I love about bringing to you all these conversations with these amazing individuals is the fact that we can.

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There’s so much to talk about. Let’s say it that way. There’s so much out there. There’s so much amazingness that we can be sharing with each other that when we have these conversations and let the conversation organically, naturally unfold what comes out is pure magic, so I cannot wait for you to listen to this amazing conversation with Penelope Maver. This is Episode 105 solo together.

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Welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host. Tigria gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the naturally conscious community.

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For over a decade I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom, to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution. In this podcast I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Oh, Penelope, I’m actually extremely excited about this conversation, because, you know, you and I have talked a few times. We have very similar paths and yet completely different paths. And I love that. And I’m really excited about having the audience here. Somebody who’s doing similar work, but from a completely different angle. And I think that this gives just shows us kind of the richness of nature in and of itself.

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So before we dive into all the things that you’re up to tell the audience who is Penelope? I am just so delighted to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. And I literally, I have got goosebumps about being here. And so, Penelope, so I am a Kiwi kid, a New Zealander who, living in Spain.

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and I guess it’s sort of like it’s it’s interesting. From a like I’m from an island to an island. I’m an island girl. I have all these

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you know, sort of like characteristics that are quite defining in terms of who I am like, I’m an Aries. I’m a middle child. I’m a i’m a, you know, like all those sort of sort of cliches, I’m a seeker, I am.

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I’m a person who has followed my path. My heart.

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and I say that because I grew up in a little community in New Zealand.

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and I observed I got observed around me about the dynamics came from a farming agricultural place.

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and I got curious about the impact of what farmers and the dynamic of the economy, the social situation. And it sounds sort of like, you know, like sort of grandiose, that I thought about that as a young child, but it was really interesting for me, and then I studied sustainability and then sustainability. I went into leadership. And so I’ve sort of followed my heart and my interest in that.

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and at a certain point

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you know how you you do your own journey of you do your professional journey, and it’s intertwined with your personal. So I am a seeker, and I was sort of seeking answers. And I was interested in my own potential. And so I became from a sustainability. I realized also that it was about the leadership like leadership. The leaders had to talk to each other.

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Sustainability is not an intellectual exercise, leadership is not an intellectual exercise. It has to be felt and seen and embodied, and so I felt that myself that I had to like. If I wanted to be mindful if I wanted to be present with the world.

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I had to be. I had to get on the cushion. I had to be

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practice that meditation and it was. It was a deep part of being in Italy, actually, and in Dharma Attila, if you know it, and then I

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And then yeah, that led me to. Then deepening my relationship with the actual earth. And and then.

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as it goes on, I’m you know, I’ve created my leadership offering related to this mindful

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whole systems, you know, sustainable coaching way. And that’s that’s what I do. I work with leaders around that. And yeah, I love this. And I want to. 1, st 1st and foremost touch on something you just said that I think we don’t talk about enough, which is the fact that

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in many in many people’s minds the word sustainability is based on

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a type of practice where I’m supposed to do these things, and these are the boxes I’m supposed to check off. And this makes something sustainable. But I like the way that you say it, which is, you know, sustainability really is a completely different thing. I mean, in order to really create a sustainable society, a sustainable product, a sustainable world. It isn’t a label you tack on to something else. It’s a mindset. It’s a a practice, almost. It’s almost like a way of being, that is, I embody

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sustainability, not as a catchphrase, but more as something that I am, and therefore, by being it. The things I produce naturally come from that. And so I’d love to hear a little bit more of how sustainability kind of if embodying that mindset which it sounds like is the way that you look at it also. How did that take you into the idea that? Oh, wait a minute. That means that leadership is kind of the same thing. Yeah.

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yeah. Great. Because I do, you know, like sustainability, you know, that definition of social, economic and environmental, you know, like it’s a whole systems perspective, isn’t it? And so, therefore I think it is like, what are, you know, with our own wholeness.

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you know. How do we integrate those parts of us, the wounded child, and you know, or the wild adult, or the, you know, adapted, you know, adolescent, you know. Like how do we? How do we do that? And so it became clear, like, you know, when you sit in? So I would sit in sustainability meetings or partnership meetings, and you can see that disconnect that people are

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out aren’t speaking from their truth. And they aren’t. They are, you know. It feels like

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Sometimes some meetings. We’re just like little adolescents. We’re just immature children.

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batting, batting ideas or opinions or no, actually, not even opinions, you know. And so you can get a feeling that actually, what we have to do is focus on on, how do we

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lead ourselves? Sustainably?

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Yeah. And that like, you say, it’s got it like it’s quantum physics, isn’t it? It’s just sort of like that inner and outer relationship. It’s got to manifest in a more healthy way. We turn up differently. We see the world differently, don’t we?

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Yeah. And I think that this is one of the when I 1st started one of the 1st programs that I put together was called the naturally Conscious Leadership Group, which still is part of my inner circle of, you know, clients and students who are kind of the leaders of tomorrow. But

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I found that because I don’t work in the corporate setting anymore the word leadership, people were afraid of it like, it’s almost like they think it doesn’t apply. And for me, the reason I had called it leadership was because it’s about self leadership, right? It’s like being the naturally conscious leader. To me is, I lead my life. I lead the type of life that I so it was lead, as in like, yes, a leader, but also lead, as in I am leading, a life

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that is, in that naturally conscious, sustained, regenerative, all those things I embody it so much that by its own kind of nature. It spills out of me into the things I do, and it guides the things that I’m doing.

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and that that really close relationship with the land with the the beings of nature, and everything helped me be that naturally conscious leader. Wow! It was so hard to explain. It’s still.

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because everybody thinks that a leader is like the business person who’s standing up there. I’m like you can be a leader, just I don’t know. Like in your family. You can be a leader, you know, when you’re in the middle of a grocery store, and you know something. And the way that you do things shows that you’re

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it’s it’s a per. It’s a personal way of being, not

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at this title that that only applies to certain people. So how do you find.

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you know? Do you find that you may mainly work with? Is it easier for a corporate world to then bring that into their lives, or even for the corporate people does that. Are they still seeing it as 2 separate things? Yes, I think it is 2 separate things. I had this conversation just the other day, because I’m doing a spring reset, and a friend said to me, and she knows me well, she says.

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but I’m not a leader she absolutely is. But and but it was so interesting. It’s such a loaded, misunderstood term, isn’t it? And I think we probably do need a new term, because.

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you know, in particular, I see in Spain where people like. Oh, they think of Franco or Italy. It’s Mussolini, you know, we hear the and and so and I’m so used to it like working 25 years with leaders. I love the word leader, you know, for those reasons of self-leadership, and I work with an organization called impact International. And so that

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a global outdoor experiential organization and they have a lovely strip line. It was like, you know, leadership is not a special type of person or a special type of role. It’s a special type of action, you know, one where you you know, it comes from noticing and deciding, and the courage to act. And so so I think in definitely. Of course, the corporate world understands leadership more so. But it is interesting

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that we don’t, and I think generally we don’t. We give away our authority. We give away our agency, we give away our sovereignty, and I think that that’s from our childhood, you know that we refer to the adult or the parent.

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We go to our teachers. We’re constantly looked out for, you know, for that great man theory, or the great person that will save us. And you know it’s a daily act, you know. Was it? James Holler said something about, like, you know, to reclaim our sovereignty is a daily task upon the soul, and I believe that. And I thought, Why wouldn’t you be interested in that.

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Why wouldn’t you be corporate world? I don’t know if you notice this like, I know. Notice now that

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leadership develop development is a different thing. Like so many people in the corporate world.

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They are outside their lives. They are doing ceremonies. They are part of your nature connection, you know. They are they are doing Qigong or Yoga, you know, in the past they didn’t. But and it’s interesting that then they don’t bring in those practices and that self leadership into their wholeness.

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you know, for their corporate world they hide, they they hide part of themselves. And so therefore, those going back. It’s not sustainable. It’s the decisions they’re making are not connected.

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You know, they’re not coming from an embodied grounded place. This this is, I mean, I’m so glad that you said that because this is the thing that we’re seeing across the board, I was, you know, in multiple interviews that I’ve done even recently, and like these conversations that are coming out is the fact that for certain generations of people, especially in some ways like there’s like a certain generation that still feels like they’re not allowed to

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bring the principles that are changing their lives. They’re the things that outside of the office environment.

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especially for those that still work in kind of more traditional or structured business models. They feel like these things that I’m doing that are helping me become a better person. I’m not allowed to, consciously, or maybe explicitly, bring them into the work that I do, that you do. And I see this disconnect all the time where

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you know their connection to plants. I was using the example with a previous guest. I was having this conversation about Natasha Myers is research when she she’s a plantropologist, and when she was doing research into understanding.

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How do plants, I mean, how do scientists incorporate kind of the idea of plant communication at all like? Do they feel like the plants, are actually communicating with them, and they found that the younger generation struggled to accept that because they had to prove that they were scientists, they had to prove that they were using measurable actions, and like they were doing the things according to what was necessary to get results

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where older scientists, in, particularly those with tenure, or in very, very established roles, could admit that

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maybe what is I’m calling intuition is actually coming from the plants, like, maybe it is the plants inspiring me to find my results. And I think that’s exactly what we’re talking about. It’s, you know, the feel that you need to have this separate, because I can’t quantify it with a measurable number and statistic. I can’t

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give you the. If I talk to plants, I’m more relaxed, and then that leads to cortisol levels that drop that then leads to this. I have to give you such a long thing to show. It’s okay for me to bring it into the, you know, into the boardroom.

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and it’s like why that just seems so silly, and it seems

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counterintuitive. Because then again, like you said, you give away your sovereignty. It’s like I give ability to be a leader in whatever role I’m in. Even if I’m an individual contributor, because I have separated out all these parts of me that are the things that help bring a better, more holistic, more connected, more

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healthier, probably way of doing business. Yeah.

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Yeah. Isn’t it incredible that we’re still? We’re still

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there? We’re still here. And but I got excited. I don’t know about the telepathy tapes. Have you seen that, you know

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imperiality of science. And actually, I would have thought that you know, it was actually, the older scientists would say would be more, you know material. The younger people. Yeah, this must intuition. But it’s interesting, you know. But we’re we’re so.

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well, it’s you know. Our mind is decolonized in a way, isn’t it? And so we have to, you know, or we get very rigid. That’s part of my interest with the plants about the teachers, of the of rewilding myself, you know, and seeing it differently.

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And I think we yeah, we have to. We have to challenge that. And and I guess people, there’s something about people not feeling safe, isn’t it like it is so much. It’s so in their nervous system, or not trusting that or definitely in the corporate world I can’t bring. I can’t talk about my yoga, because I’ll be ridiculed like it’s something that people aren’t sharing. And I remember my mom going off to Yoga like in the 19 seventies, and she never taught us.

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But I think if she wanted to also keep it sacred, there was something there. So there’s all different reasons. But the more that we can bring in this wholeness, I mean, what a gift to the world we, you know, like. And isn’t that interesting? I mean.

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it’s like, I’m curious about my own potential and my own wholeness, and what’s possible out of that absolutely. And and you know, to understand that we are more than just this one analytical mind. I think

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we’re only starting now to weave in the possibilities that are intuitive, more collective. Side

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brings a lot to the table. In other words, it allows me to be a better leader, using that, you know, going back to that word. The fact that leadership is not about being able to statistically dissect everything, and then set a direction based on some arbitrary set of parameters that society has deemed useful. On the contrary, it is being able to read the room.

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understand the emotional landscape that others are experiencing. You know it’s not about going to Yoga, because it makes me more stretchy, and therefore it’s better. But it’s about. I walk out of Yoga, and my mind is more clear, and I could, you know I can actually relax, and then I can see things, and I become softer in the way that I talk, because I feel more

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comfortable and embodied. I feel safer also to have like more expansive conversations. And I think you know, we’re starting to see the acceptance of it from the Yoga perspective. But I think it’s funny that the nature connection. And here I want to get into more of the stuff that you’re doing right now. I feel like it’s almost where Yoga was at the time of your mother, where you know Yoga, at the time of your mother, was this like?

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She knew she was getting more than just the flexi body, and it’s moving. But it was, you know, still, from the perspective of the external world, especially, you know, in our Western cultures. It was exercise. That’s the reason I’m doing it. Yes, and I think nature connection for so many people is kind of at that stage where it’s like I do it for exercise, or I do it for this, and we do it a lot more like.

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oh, there’s so much more you’re getting out of it like this is really, really. And so many like leaders will say, you know, I go out to nature, and they’ll actually go out. You know, their holidays are nature based. And it’s like, so where is that? So that we intuitively go out there? But the depth.

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you know, and I mean I we I shared. I can tell my story about my own mission around intimately expansive relationship with the world like it’s, you know, like, how the invitation is there for for us to pay attention, go deeper and to feel into that wholeness with nature. And it’s yeah. And people are

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are very, can be very private like, and even the shame of like hugging a tree like

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of not being able to explain why you’re doing it. So much of it is that these people. I feel like leaders think that they’re supposed to be able to explain everything they’re supposed to lead by telling you what to do. That’s the old model right? Telling you what to do and being able to explain why you’re doing it. And when you’re hugging a tree, or when you’re out sitting, and you’re like.

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I’m getting answers to questions. I didn’t even know I was asking. Therefore the answers still don’t have words, but there’s a part of me that knows that there’s an answer in there. Now, how the hell do I explain that to my team? Yeah.

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And it’s like you don’t have to. You don’t have to. You don’t have to. I think that’s probably why your mother didn’t tell you about her. Yoga, she couldn’t explain it. Yeah.

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yeah, it’s something you just have to do for to yourself. And I think that that’s the struggle

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that we sometimes have, and even filling our programs and our courses and our coaching is because I feel like we still struggle with the fact of how do I explain to you in a way, something you’re going to feel in your unique way that is going to change your life. But I can’t put it into words yet, because it’s an experience that’s much more

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about embodiment. How do you do that? Yes, and and part of it is like that’s, you know, and part of it is for them to find out what that feeling is so, therefore you can’t tell. You know you can’t tell them, you know, like, it’s it’s impossible. And also, yeah, because you yeah, it’s

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yeah. We’ll find their way, you know, and the right people turn up, you know. Right? You know. Yeah, absolutely. So. So on that note, I find it very interesting that you called. You know your work. Earth converse? Yeah, because it is about

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kind of not conversing necessarily in like, let me put words to it perfectly so can you share somewhat like what? What for you? Is that conversation, that conversing that’s happening? Oh, thank you, I did. It was the name came from a conversation on the land. So I have learned the practice of walking with the land. You know my my experience of deepening my own

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connection with myself and the earth. So I walked the lane that was like, you know what needs to come through me. What is it that I’m offering? And this this earth converse came. And it was like, it felt really obvious. It was like, Yeah, I’m learning to have a different relationship. And

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and so it’s like, where life is constantly

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inviting us into a conversation with the breeze or the you know the

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even like going past a plant, you know, like on my walk, and you just and it and it brushes you, and it’s like there’s the invitation, there’s there’s the pause, and I. And so I think so I’ve just like.

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like going back to that sustainability thing that I can help leaders

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really feel into their own nature, connection their own embodiment, help them with their own wholeness. So therefore, they do make better decisions for people and planet. And so my Earth conversing is like how the unlimited ways that life is asking us to to come into communion.

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communion, and conversation. So you know, everyone has their own name for it. But I call it you’re like Earth conversing and and and so yeah, like people go. I went to a tree and I didn’t, you know, didn’t have a you know. It didn’t say anything to me. And it’s like, that’s the thing. It’s learning that the conversation comes in different ways, those feelings. You’re talking about, those sensations, those images it talks. And so how can we learn to?

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and it takes time. It’s 1 of those. It’s a slow, I think, if you, if you savor it as a slow progression, as a slow journey

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it could be so enriching, because, as you’re learning how others communicate, you know the land, the beings of the land from the smallest ant, or to you know the bird in the air and to the tree or the grass.

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Each one has their own sort of way. And as I enter into that relationship with these different beings, and I start to receive, in whatever way that look, I also recognize that I am, I am receptor. I have so much more and and more ways to understand and, like you said, that intimate, expansive experience

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expands me in ways that I then take into a meeting space.

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and I’ll say it this way. I think there are still people especially highly sensitive people that feel worried that doing this type of work and bringing it into their office. Space is they’re going to be too sensitive. In other words, it’s going to all feel like a bombardment of the senses. But in my, I don’t know about for you, and I’m super curious as to what you see, but in my experience

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in doing this with the safety of the land, with the beings of the land. With my natural expression, I actually find that

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the the plants, all of these, you know other kin teach me attunement in a non-mental way that no healer, no human healer, no human describer, could ever teach me.

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In other words, it’s like they, because I have to attune in order to hear them.

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I have to play with my senses in order to hear the smallest vibration of an ant to, you know, a big imposing tree to a wind storm that I have to like sit inside of and feel.

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I learn in a in a safe way, kind of like a child playing. Yeah, how to attune. And therefore, when I’m sitting in a boardroom, it makes it almost easier for me to like

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tune out this negative energy coming from this guy over here and this girl that’s really feeling frustrated. I can tune into her, but I can also like send her some softness. And this one over here, you know, like, I don’t know. I feel like it actually makes it easier rather than making us more raw. Yes.

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does that make sense? No? So yes, it’s a bodily. Yes, you know, because I think that you know when we go out to the land. And I love this idea. You know it’s the pure source, isn’t it? Like a human will always have their own judgments or doubt? You know there’s something there’s, of course, wise folk out there, but I think that when we’re in relationship with the plant, with the tree, with the bird, and we can do that it is that

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there’s a knowing, isn’t it? I love this attunement, you know our body relaxes and we feel connected, don’t we? We feel a sense of belonging. And if we can bring that into, then you know, day-to-day human interactions. And we can remember that our body remembers that this is the experiential way, isn’t it?

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And so and I just love the

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yeah, the the subtleties of that.

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Yeah. And how it it doesn’t have to go. And again, going back to one of the difficulties is that these aren’t things that you teach by like.

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take these 4 steps, that’s not it. And and it’s a learning then from there, how do you do it anywhere like when I’m sitting in a meeting in a conference room? And I’m like, I’m going to connect to that tree, that plant that has been sitting there in the corner. Help me attuned to so and so! Who’s yelling at me right now and help me find I can find the right way through this, and I find that that expansion just sort of

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it sits with you. The episode, I think it was 98 of my podcast was all about

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how all the different ways I’ve up until that time that I had been learning to

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to connect and to receive messages from plants, and how much

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that has helped me. Better understand people.

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Because now, like you, said I, I feel a person with the whole body, but I don’t just take in. You know their difficulties. I can.

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I can sit with them and hold that space so much better, because there’s so much of me that’s more open and much more of me. That’s also much more compassionate like. I’m more in tune with myself. I’m comfortable with who I am. I could

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see you match you where you are. I don’t have to take on your stuff like I think that that

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that expansion that happens is is so helps us so much in our day-to-day life, and that’s

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and it’s a shame when we cut that off, and we don’t allow that to come into the other things that we do. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then you know the co-creation, you know, like how we’re co-creating. And I learned this with vision fast. So that’s my background in terms of really understanding that life is a mirror. And this deep.

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deep rites of passage, this deep way of being in ceremony with the land, you know, and work from, like Bill Plotkin and Soulcraft, and you know, just experiencing, experiencing in that way. And oh, no! Give us give us more details. We want to know what that is. How does that work tell me more? Tell me more. So just this.

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So through meditation, and like being a plant, you know, like have to be stationary and rooted, and just stay and be in my wholeness. So learning about that, and then I got more nuanced with actually life. So my going out to nature and I’m in, you know, New Zealand outdoors is really important to me. So. But I became it became a more subtle and subtle relationship. You know, I noticed more. I was quieter. I was.

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I didn’t march through the landscape. I walked slowly, or I sat, you know, all these sorts of things, and just and then, bit by bit.

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then, like Bill Plucklin, he’s Animus Valley. So he’s from the ecotherapy, beautiful writing. So I actually, it was a bit of a pod. When I had my podcast. Earth converse podcast about our conversations and relationships with the earth. He came on, and I was just like, Oh, I’m done. It’s wonderful, but just he calls it soul craft.

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So this is, you know how we are the natural co-creation with life and all the ways we can deepen our connection and and so and then from and then I went into, like the school of lost borders. So they are a rites of passage organization in America.

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and they come from so like studied, indigenous wisdom and ancient human practices that doing what humans have always done, you know, going out so

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like

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typically fasting to force connection, inspiration and belonging. So I did some vision quests with them, and I also was a I have done mirroring, mirroring around that like life is a mirror. You know, nature is a mirror. Nature’s metaphor, and you know, Saturn ceremony. And so that’s sort of my. That’s where IA lot of the earth conversing, comes from. In fact, Earth converse came out from a vision, my 1st vision fast.

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So I I learned about the co-creation, like I remember on that vision fast is that, you know, like I grabbed a cactus

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and well, it actually invited me to grab it, actually, because I was sort of like, you know, we are not violent with plants only if they ask only if they ask exactly. And I picked out.

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And I just like had this. These it was sort of like I picked out of all like the beliefs and all the things that were holding me back.

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you know. And so that sort of

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way of being with that plant, you know, with that. And so how do we co-create? So I think that anything like we

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that that becomes interesting, you know or whether we’re making an infusion or foraging that I’ve learned about, you know, just even that is a like a co-creation with the wildness. So

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yeah, I think that this the more I work in these, you know, work with people. The more I have these types of conversations, the more I realize that everything is a co-creation. There is no such thing. 1st of all, there is no such thing as an eye, anyway, because, you know, human smells are only like 10% of my body. The rest of it is all microbes and everything else. So it’s like there is no such thing as I as in. You know this

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piece. So everything is a co-creation. Right? I’m co-creating with my own body, with the microbes in my body, with all the other entities that live with me. And then anything I do is really a co-creation, and I think if we were to step

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into that in everything we did, if we really leaned deeper into it, and not as a thing of

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reducing or taking away my sovereignty, but, on the contrary, about seeing my sovereignty more as an expression through that co-creation process.

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Oh, can you imagine just how much

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easier life would be like. It’s it would give us back that opportunity to recognize that a sacrifice is not something negative, but, on the contrary, it’s this beautiful thing where I say I am giving up this piece because I feel like this. Greater thing is so much more important, and therefore it’s easy for me to just

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let that other thing go in order to embody or be a part of this other thing, and I feel like that’s another one of those elements that, working in that intimacy with myself as a being of nature starts to become

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easier, just it just flows from you. And oh, how much, how much nicer like can we be? I don’t know would life be if we were to sort of live in that embodied space? Yes, and what like the ideas and the creativity coming from that? Yeah, I mean incredible. I do. I call it solo together, like, I really believe that is a that is the human story like, how do I be my individual self in my earth suit my

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ecological niche and my gifts to the world, and in relationship, you know, in relationship, like you say, with the microbes, or or my or my partner, or that tree or the world. And

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I think it also scales up. It’s like Spain’s relationship with Europe, or relationship with the world like solo together, like, where’s our sovereignty? And where’s our connection? And you know and given that we are these. You know, we’re all one, but we also are. Then this little casing. You know. So

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what is that? I mean, yeah, I get very excited about that. That is super. I mean, I love that that idea of solo together. When I created the reconnect with the plant kingdom, which was like the 1st big plant related course that I created. That’s inside of the naturally conscious community. There is an entire module on

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independent, interrelated. Yes, because that’s it. It’s like no tree is ever. There’s a beautiful article on. I reference it in that module, which is, I think it’s an aeon article, and it’s beautifully written and talking about how? No, in this case they’re using a tree as the example. But

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no tree is ever individual, and yet no tree is only.

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you know, interrelated. It has to be both simultaneous. You could have 2 identical, you know, biologically identical starting trees like seeds planted in one. I don’t know a foot, or, you know, 3 feet a meter away from one another, and the 2 trees that grow will be completely different, even though the entire DNA structure is, you know, and all the structure that is the base is the same. Why? Because

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each one has slightly different wind. Slightly different. Sunlight, you know, nourished in a different way. They’re passing things between each other. They’re passing with different beings of the force like it’s always interrelated and yet individual. And so that whole idea of solo together, I think, is, how different would it be if we grew up

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being told that you are always an interrelated individual. And if you always think of any project, it’s like, Okay, anything you’re working on, whether it’s your own school homework or something else is always solo together. Can you imagine how different our lives would be in the way that we interact with one another?

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Yeah. And I’m sure other cultures do like a Western world. You know, part of us is that great disconnection. But I’m sure there are communities and ways of ways of being that that’s true, you know, but and and it’s it’s part of our Western journey, you know, to get out of our logical, you know, rational minds to bring back. That wholeness of our intuitive selves, you know absolutely, absolutely and and to and to want it like to recognize that it is something that is

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part of being a member of society is the fact that I am always interrelated and individual, or, you know, always doing my own thing and still together and realizing you’re never alone. I think it would really help to deal with some of the loneliness that we experience as individuals, because that loneliness, I mean, I was just reading that.

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What was it? I don’t remember if it’s in Japan or such, I mean, the loneliness levels are getting to be

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a big big problem for many societies that individuals feel completely and utterly alone. They don’t have those supportive networks. But, more importantly, we don’t even know how to create them anymore. And I think that programs and the stuff that we’re talking about the things that you do, for example.

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in addition to the leadership benefits. But I mean leaders, oftentimes traditional leaders, historic leaders feel really lonely. Being a leader is extremely lonely in the way that society has painted it of. You know, you’re the direction seeker. You’re the one that sets every these things.

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It’s really a lonely world. Yeah, yeah, I feel, you know, I feel that I’ve heard that from, you know, leaders, you know, because they they yes, it’s sort of this false sense of like the Echo Chamber a little bit, I reckon, in terms of. I’ve got a yeah lots of ideas about loneliness, because I’m a single woman. I’ve been single for a long time, and I came to.

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In fact, the land here in Pushpunyant in Majorca was really healing for that, because I came to a little pueblo. I don’t speak Spanish and

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still don’t, really. And but and it was like, if I’m going to be alone in my life, if I’m going to be this crumb, you know, like, and I’m an independent woman. It’s there’s freedom is my incredible value to me, and I’m just. But I’m going to go and test it out. I’ve got an opportunity. I don’t know anybody. But I’m going to the land, and I’m going to sit with that loan. You know what that means.

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and this is the thing I so believe in a solitude practice. In fact, I’ve just promoted a 24 h solo together as a sort of a counteraction to the chaos, because I think that actually to be in community, we need to be better at our own solitude, like to learn to discern those voices, or to step away from the drama and the distractions and the

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demands, and go inner to understand our own inner inner world. And you know, listen to our own intuition and and voice, and knowing.

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I think that’s and so I believe I absolutely believe in solitude. So I did an like an 8 month experiment on the land. But it was, you know, sitting with that, with that oak sitting sitting with the moss, you know, sitting sitting just like and and and I just I came absolutely to peace

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with that like I, because I think the natural world, I think loneliness. It’s sort of

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you can’t be lonely if you if you don’t if you if you like the company you’re in. So, you know, like liking ourselves and feeling that oneness like

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even now, you know, you can breathe the air like the the natural world is there, being supporting you

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like plants, you know. Weeds will come up very close to you. They’re there like you’re not. You’re not alone right, you know, or some people talk about, you know, with the natural world being transpersonal resources. I don’t kind of like that term, but it’s sort of like, yeah, there are lots of friends out there. There’s lots of wisdom out there, and if we can only tap into that, even if you’re in a an apartment in the middle of Tokyo, in a little cubicle.

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there is nature there, you know there is life there, right, I love that, and I love that it. I can see it both ways, because I could see it exactly the way you were just describing in the fact of you know you’re never alone. There is all this, and I also feel like doing something of this way. I’ve also had. I live in community

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so like you said, those mirrors are always there, but the more you are in that in tune, and I love the idea of that giving yourself space and time in nature.

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I had another client of mine who was doing that, she just very slowly, just complete, full immersion.

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I think when you’re with people, if you do it from a place of, as you said, expansion connection being in myself, that peace, once that peace arrives, nobody can take that piece away from you. I could be sitting in the middle of a carnival

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with people yelling, and I could

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find that peace. I remember the 1st time that I ever, you know, was able to meditate in a crowded space. I was in the airport in

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Pence. It was, was it Philadelphia? Yeah, I was in a Philadelphia airport? I was waiting for my flight.

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It was utter chaos. It was one of those days that was just ex

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like exponentially chaotic in the airport.

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kids screaming, you know all kinds of sounds, and I remember sitting there, and I just leaned back into my chair, comfortable, kind of meditative position, closed my eyes, took some nice deep breaths, and ended up who knows where.

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And the only thing I heard was when they called my flight, like I could hear through all of the chaos.

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Everything quieted down, and I could hear them calling my flight. And I’ve I’ve been working on expanding that kind of thinking about it from the perspective of nature of when I go, and I spend time in that that sort of notwithstanding birds, and this and everything that’s around me being able to enter into that personal silence. And I’ve been testing that. How do I

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get myself there? How do I feel completely connected? I wasn’t disconnected from what was happening in the airport. On the contrary, I was so connected that I didn’t need to hear it. Other parts of me were registering the things that are necessary, and I do think that that is.

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the more we allow ourselves to to embrace that natural side of ourselves.

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and trust that our bodies know how to do things that we have forgotten, as humans intellectually, how to do and allow our natural mirrors. You know the the grass and and all of the different beings that are around us to kind of remind us to help us

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get there, to be like, how do I learn? You know what it means to understand a vibration from you know the ant? Or how do I understand how to recognize humidity from this type of plant? Or how do I find water like a moss. You know. How do I? How do I connect into these elements that you have all continued to expand on? And I have atrophied in order to really feel that completeness

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and that that part of myself that’s so much more than what I think it is today. That’s extraordinary. That’s like, and that’s a superpower, isn’t it? And I think that you know where I love the Thich Nhat Han, where you know the Vietnamese in terms of being a refugee like with this so much chaos? How can I center myself if one person just centers themselves, and you know, and come into that rootedness of themselves, and that, you know, like the rip, literally

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the it changes changes the vibration. I mean, it’s just quantum physics, isn’t it? But you know plants teach us that they

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they are, that they are the ultimate teacher of that.

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Yeah, that rootedness is a perfect way of saying it. You know, once you remember that plants can’t run away like we as humans have atrophied all those things because we’ve run away. Yeah, plant can’t run away to learn how to do that. Yeah. You know, they’ve had to learn how to adapt for those who aren’t watching. We both naturally moved our bodies in that way, because exactly. That’s those are the pieces that really tap into that.

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How do you

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share that with others today? Like I know you do retreats. I know you have clients. I know you have multiple programs.

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How do you? Because I know I struggle sometimes like I think long terms. I’ve decided that you know, I love doing, coaching and mentorship, because I love that I can work over a long time scale. I love having the naturally conscious community which is more of a membership model that has this long expansive. But I don’t get the benefit of the, you know, taking a person into a full immersion into a natural environment like you would with a retreat.

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I only get to do that every once in a while, when people ask me to put together a retreat to Dom and her, which then I love doing it. So how do you find? How do you take people through these journeys? Oh, lovely! I love your ecosystem. What you’ve what you’ve created, though I mean, it’s it’s like abundant. I get a little bit overwhelmed, but it’s just abundance, and you know just it’s such a. You’re so living there. Such a role. Model.

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yeah. Peace for me. Yes. So I do work, you know, with the corporate world I have and so, and my, I very experientially. So anything that I do is experientially, and I’ve got an out, you know, an outdoor approach. So it’s sort of like how I will.

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That’s how I just work with them. And that’s what they engage me for. I work with an Argonaut, which is a global, conscious community. And this is in trust circles. So they’re online.

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And that’s like every month working with them. And of course, we always, you know, when we, when we come face to face. You know it is the. It is the human connection on the land. You know just

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how that changes. I mean intimacy. You can build intimacy, of course. Incredible. We’re so lucky on the virtual world. But there’s nothing like being on the land together.

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And you know, and nervous systems, we relax, we connect, we smell, it’s just. It’s a different experience. And so I love working with individuals here, or groups of people on the land in Majorca. So, and I’ve you know, like I walk the land myself every day I’m out there, so it feels.

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you know it feels

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I don’t know aligned. And so I I love like either the outdoor coaching, like people, you know, using nature as a metaphor. You know, you’ve got a challenge, and we go uphill, or we see, you know or you see paths in the forest. And we, you know, and sort of like when they’re in a dilemma or feeling depressed, find a depression, you know, like just that. That playfulness.

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You know what is what

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you know, what which plant is taking. Your attention is inviting you into a conversation, and you know, and so them helping people make meaning of them. And so that sort of individual things I also have. I have a thing called solo together, which I it’s like a micro rite of passage, a micro vision quest where we invite people to disconnect

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from their day to day and spend just 2 h in solitude, which is phenomenal for so many people. And it’s like, How what are you noticing, you know, and then and then we go into, then circle, you know, and talk about that. And I mirror back the stories. That’s that’s been wonderful. So, and I have, or nature connection walks or things like that. And then with the retreats like, I’m a

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I’m a coach, and I have this wonderful coaching program, which is, if you want to coach in service of people and planet. There are so many online coaches, there’s so many where anybody can call themselves a coach. I love that anybody can come from coaching, but I do like

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the rigor of study, and I do like what I have created, which is a nature-based way of coaching. So we practice. If you know, how do we listen to a person? If we cannot listen to a tree, you know, like, start there. Who are we in service of?

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Why, why do we coach so many coaches? I’ve came from the background of coaching that a coach is neutral.

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But no, I’ve got opinions we’ve got opinions about. So I think it’s important. We share them. And you know, like people, people will come to me if they want that. And so I’ve got a 6 month journey, which is virtual with, you know, group perspectives and supervision and one-to-one coaching. But it is centered around a 7 day retreat here in Majorca.

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And you know, once again, coaching is not a theoretical exercise. If we’re going to be in service of people planet, we have to be with the land we have to, you know. Go out, go out to the land and be with it, and co-create and learn that we need to ask it questions. We need to listen. We need to, you know, like, see vision with it. So I just love that experiential space. And I also think retreats. It’s like

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as coaches learning our self-care practices. What are we doing to look after ourselves? Going back to the sustainability? How can we be regenerative. How can we be sustainable? And I think that retreats

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create that moment, don’t they? You disconnect? And you enter a different eliminal space of the unknown? So, yeah, that’s how I

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that’s how I work with people. And of course, we and I also do collaborations like with Moon 9 gateway to Essence, which you know, we have a retreat based, you know, people need to

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commit to that

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to a different way. Otherwise we just keep on doing the same thing, don’t we? Of course, you know you’ve got a beautiful. You can turn around and have a micro moment in a connection. But I do believe in that bigger, longer extended experiences.

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Yeah, I definitely agree that especially having different ways, we were just talking about that yesterday in one of my group research groups here in Dominhur, one of my spiritual research groups where we’re working on a program for something. And we were saying that how important it is to have the consistency in particular, for the things that we’re teaching as part of medit action, which is our, you know, initiotic path.

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and also having those moments of immersion. And it is important to have those moments where you know, you just

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kind of give yourself that space to be completely 100% immersed in what you’re doing. And I think that

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the downfall of the digital world is the fact that. And I’m guilty of this myself. It’s like either you capture me or I am going to be doing something else, which is from a neurodivergent perspective, can be very positive like not just. It’s helped me, for example, learn how to feel safer in a meeting, even in a physical meeting with people, to Doodle, or to do something. That kind of helps

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my mind work in the way that it needs to work. The negative side of it is when we take it too far, which is that if the instructor or the person who’s holding the meeting doesn’t really capture my attention. I also don’t give myself the permission or or kind of give myself

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always the tools necessary to allow myself to be focused there. I’ll just kind of I’m going to go check my Facebook account or I’m going to go do something like that. And I think that retreats give you that space that says this is a safe space, hopefully. And therefore I’m just going to pretend that whatever is going here, I’m going to try it

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because I’m safe. I’m in this place. It works for me, and I think that when you do, especially Nature retreats any retreat in a beautiful setting helps you get into that faster.

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you know, allows you to try to just sort of say, I’m going to pretend the outside world doesn’t exist. I’m going to think of this as my little kind of safe space, and I’m going to make mistakes and fall down and try things I’ve never tried before, and, you know, expand in whatever way it goes, and we’ll see what happens. So I love that you’re doing that combination of stuff.

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especially because, as you said, as coaches.

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You know. We don’t tell you do this, but we do want to be able to say.

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Have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And have you thought of that? And you know, how do we expand the way that you look things, and we do have experience. You know, we’ve all have our years and years of experience, and that’s the reason why a client chooses to come to us, a person will come and say, I want to work with you, because I know you’re going to expand me in that direction, and and

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having that like care with somebody, I think is so important. I love that you’re doing all these things, plus, you know. Hey, it’s Spain. Yeah, yeah, we have to co-create something exactly. We have to co-create. I’ve been saying that for the last year, like there’s a lot of signs that this is the year I’m heading back to Spain for a while. I like that. Yeah, it makes me happy. This has been a fantastic conversation. The time has just flown by. Are there any last words you want to tell everyone?

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Oh, just immense gratitude. I think. Because you’re helping. I want you to say, actually, you’re helping me because my my journey is

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like this intimate expanse of relationship came from a rites of passage when a wilderness vision quest.

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And I had this intention. This little hummingbird came straight at me, and it was sort of like, that’s what I want. And so I’ve been expanding my sort of view of plants like in terms of you know, from the what is the, from the co-creation, the possibilities. But actually, you’re offering like it, like really like that intimacy. You know where you’re like

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being with. The the uniqueness of that plant in the in your home. And that’s a good learning for me, you know, because

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I think that you know, like, start closing

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right right with the life that’s here. And I think that this year. So actually, you’re expanding you because the whole podcast is expanding, you know, with perspectives. And I just love what you yeah.

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like, the voice of for the plants. So thank you. I am so happy and, like you said, it’s about exchange right where each one of us is doing our piece, and when we get to bring them together, we get to co-create something even even greater than the sum of its parts. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing everything that you’re experiencing. I will, of course, put all the information about. You know your website

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and the things you’re doing into the show notes so that people will be able to find you, and that they can hopefully, maybe who knows? Come out to Mallorca. Take a you know, one of your retreats. I think that would be fantastic. So thank you so much, and we will. I’m sure our paths are going to continue to cross and keep up the amazing work like, Please keep doing it.

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Wow! Wasn’t that such an enriching, expansive conversation? And I love that Penelope really touched on all the different facets of a coaching, mentorship, type of relationship, the different ways that we can be in service and working together. I mean, the fact is, not only are we always solo together from the perspective of I as an individual, am.

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I’m a sovereign being, but I’m always in relationship with others. So I’m always together, but also in the way that we teach and learn and study and go deeper is also a personal experience that’s happening with others. And I love that she has such great offerings that are very complementary even to the offerings, that I have right. The idea that the naturally conscious community

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is the place for you to bring all of what you’re doing in, and to experience it and share it, and go deeper into it, and have deep conversations and reflect in the meditations, and to think about it through books, and we also put together retreats and such. So you can go and have beautiful experiences with somebody like Penelope, and have this

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really deep way of connecting with land and the beings of the land with her, and then bring all of that into places like the naturally conscious community. And also, if you’re looking for a long term experience, if you really want to help transform your life and to accelerate that evolution, then coaching might be the right way for you. This is a place where you have that safe space, that one-on-one attention to really think about your life in new ways.

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How do I apply and co-create with myself and with others the life that I have been wanting and dreaming of? How do I accomplish my goals? How do I choose the projects I want to work on? How do I just learn how to be a better communicator with self?

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And so that my authentic, true nature can shine through. And really I don’t have to hold back on anything that I am, or anything that I want to accomplish. If you’re interested in really moving into this phase of your life, then

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I am here for you. All you have to do is set up a discovery call. So all of that information is in the show notes. I am just like in awe of the brilliance of the people that are around me, and so I will always remind you over and over again to resist the urge to hold back your emerging greed brilliance.

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That’s it. For now, thanks for tuning in to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom

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to continue these conversations, join us in the naturally conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.

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Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the sprouts writing and creativity group

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connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life, intro and outro music by Steve Siulli and poinsettia from the singing life of plants. That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators until next time. Remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance. I’m out bye.