Ep.121 Interspecies Garden Relationships with Matthieu Mehuys

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Hello, hello, hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.

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It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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Today’s guest is, uh, challenging, but in a good way, in a good way.

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I had the most delightful conversation with Matthew Mehuys, um, and I am just really excited about bringing this type of conversation to you because I feel like sometimes, and I do this, I’m guilty of this, right?

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I, I listen to so many different speakers and, um, and I have so many conversations with different people, and each one of us expresses our relationship with plants in a very different way.

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But it’s really easy for us to, um, especially if we’ve adopted a certain type of vocabulary and we look at things in a certain way, it’s very easy to kind of judge your, you know, the other person as if the words that they’re using have the same meaning in the words you’re using.

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And in this particular case, that is exactly kind of what happened at the beginning, because I feel like Matthew is somebody who is doing really beautiful work, and his vocabulary matches that of his clients and of the people he works with and all these different aspects, where my vocabulary, of course, has already shifted based on you and based on, uh, all my research and everything that I have done.

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And so I, I, but I also find, you know, language to be super important, especially in the types of topics that he were, he and I were talking about, which is really about what does it mean to design a garden?

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What is the relationship of the human being to the plants that are part of that garden?

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And, you know, who is the parent and who is the child?

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As you will hear that we get into.

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So this is really a wonderful conversation that touches on, you know, what it means to bring this communication and this relationship with plants into a more corporate environment or into an environment of people who maybe are still in, haven’t started their plant reawakening, but who have an inkling that they want something, and how do we as, you know, the professionals that are here to help them through this transition in different ways, for example, for Matthew in the, as a landscape, you know, architect

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and as a garden designer, it’s one way of doing it, and me, of course, as a, you know, plant educator, you might say, or, or a plant advocacy, uh, ambassador, do it in another way.

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So I’m really excited for you to just listen to this.

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I want to hear your thoughts.

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I’d love to hear, you know, where do you see Matthew and the way that Matthew speaks and what it is that Matthew does in relation to everything else that we’re talking about, about our interspecies relationships.

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So with that, I present to you Episode 121: Interspecies Garden Relationships with Matthew Mehuys.

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Welcome to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.

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I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.

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For over a decade, I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.

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In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

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All right, Matthew.

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We’re, we’re already off to a great start because you asked me a beautiful question at the very beginning, which is how can

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What do we need to do in order to make this the best episode ever?

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And I love that ’cause it’s already, like, bringing up a whole series of questions I want to ask you.

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But before I start asking you all these questions, can you tell my audience who is Matthew?

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Yeah.

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Tigrilla, first of all, thank you for having me on.

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I’m excited to talk, uh, plants and saving the world and doing a, a lot of things on a high vibe.

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So yeah.

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My backstory, I’ll try to keep it short, grew up on a family farm.

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My brother and father are farmers and very passionate about agriculture.

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Uh, when I was 3 years old, I was so fascinated by, about how plants can grow, like seed in the ground.

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Wow, how is this possible?

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Like, this is the 3yearold’s first thoughts, I would say.

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By the time I was 5, I told my parents, “I’m gonna start my own vegetable garden,” ’cause on our farm at the time, it was mostly cash crops and cattle.

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Uh, we’ve changed it now since we’re going into more regenerative farm and we have a lot of gardens and visitor center, but that we can talk about more later.

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But then I started growing veggies and the first thing I did was radishes, and it was a success story.

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It was so easy.

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Like growing radishes is one of the easiest veg.

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And then I thought, “It’s super easy.”

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So and then I s- I said, “Okay, I’ll get all the other seeds, tomato, lettuce, everything,” ’cause I, I was passionate about it.

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And I put e- I prepared my soil.

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My grandmother came.

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We added, like, compost ’cause the soil was

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It’s a very heavy clay soil where I grew up.

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Uh, and it actually used to be ocean, uh, and the monks in the 12th, 11th ce- uh, 13th century, they pushed back the ocean.

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So it’s very, very rich soil, but it’s like, it’s like a brick when it dries, uh, and very muddy when it’s raining.

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So it was a struggle and, but still, I got everything in the ground and I ca- and I thought, “Gardening is so easy.

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I’ll come back in a couple weeks to see everything.”

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Yeah.

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I can already harvest my tomatoes.

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Like in my mind, I was like, “Okay.”

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I came back and my, my little garden was completely overgrown by weeds that were higher, taller than myself.

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Like quite nasty weeds.

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Like some were even poisonous.

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I still remember my dad saying that.

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But-Why am I telling you this story?

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That’s where everything started, and I only could connect the dots looking backwards, is like, I went on in life.

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I- I studied, uh, a bachelor in landscape architecture in Belgium, which was focused on garden design.

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I finished that.

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I was like, I- I- I had a burning desire to do something more, not just design gardens.

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And I’m still doing that.

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I love doing that.

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But I said, “Okay, I want to do more bigger projects.”

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So I went to Germany to study a master degree in landscape architecture, and I- I got my master degrees.

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I thought, like, “This is it.

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This is what everybody expect of me.

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Get a good degree and- and start a 9to5 job.”” I got into that 9to5 thing- 9to5 thing, and half year in my first job, which I was proud of, I become, like, depressed, and I’m like-

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like, “What the hell is this?”

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Yeah.

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Like, “I didn’t sign up for this.

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I want to create.

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I want to- I’m creative.

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I want to help people.”

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Uh, and yeah, I still did it for two and a half years, but that- that was it.

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Uh, I quit my job.

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I had some money saved up.

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I packed my backpack and I went on a quest around the world to visit some of the most amazing projects that have to do with regeneration, ecology, um, eco re

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I went, I went to a bunch of eco resorts, to farms.

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I volunteered.

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I did permaculture trainings.

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I- I kind of did it all.

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And it- and I- I had a good lifestyle.

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I had, like, my laptop.

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I had a- a freelance job, which I was only working one day a week, which, uh, allowed me to keep traveling, ’cause I was, like, in South America and Indonesia, living in, like-

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sleeping in hammocks and, like, really this-

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I would say this was my hippie era.

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Uh, and I loved it.

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And at some point, I said, “I’m gonna go to Ecuador, to the Amazon rainforest.”

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I heard about it, and I wanted to see what it’s like.

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And the night before we wanna go to the Amazon rainforest, we had, like, something booked through a travel agency.

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I wasn’t too excited about it, but it was, like, limited time.

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And the night before, I was in a ho- in a hostel, and somebody comes to us and, “Oh, are you going to the Amazon rainforest?”

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Said, “Oh, we have this guide.

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He’s, like, an indigenous.

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He’s worked with, uh, um, National Geographic.

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Here, you should contact this guy.”

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I was like, “Yeah, let’s do that.”

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So you can’t find him on internet anywhere.

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So I spent, uh, 3 day- days with this guy in a boat-

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in the depth of the Amazon rainforest, like, was, uh, about 24 hours’ travel.

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A- and this guy was so amazing.

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He could make the sounds of every animal, like, uh, crocodiles, uh, birds.

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Like, you name it he- he could do it.

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And he saw things that nobody saw here.

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He’s, like, pointing to a branch and like, “Look, look, look.

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It’s- it’s a bird.”

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Like, “No, it’s a branch.”

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And it was an hole that was shaped as a branch.

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I was like, “Whoa.”

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And that- that left such a deep impression on me, like the- the diversity, like what a beautiful planet do we have.

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Like these are- these wildlife areas, we have to protect this.

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This is like- this is the green lung of our planet.

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And I was just like 3 days traveling and I went back to Quito, the capital in Ecuador, and I thought like, “I love my life, so I’m just gonna keep doing this.”

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I was planning to go to Mexico, because I love surfing, I wanted to go there, but nature had a different course.

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God, the universe, whatever you believe in-

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had a- had a different plan for me.

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And they said, uh, that I- I got dengue from that travel in the Amazon rainforest.

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And it’s like malaria.

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It’s- they call it the bone breaker’s disease.

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It was horrible.

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I was sick for about a month.

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And from that moment, my life actually went really down.

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It was like I- I- I didn’t have much money left.

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I- my girlfriend dumped me.

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I had to move back with my parents, back to Belgium, ’cause I was sick and I- I couldn’t afford

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Like, I couldn’t stay there, ’cause if you get sting- stung twice, it’s really- that can be deadly.

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Um, but in this, what I like to call the dark night of the soul, that you might be familiar with as well, this was

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And again, it’s in retrospect, ’cause it was a really tough time.

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I- I got into my why.

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Why am I here?

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And this is the question, like, you asked me, how can we do it well?

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I was like, “Why am I on this planet?

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What am I doing here?”

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And, and from those ideas, and I also worked with a mentor who helped me, guided me through, like, also a lot of blockages.

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I said, like, “I’m gonna make sure that we can protect those areas and the other areas in the world that we have.

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We should also make them as natural as possible.”

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So I started my own business, uh, in garden design, because I knew that, and I know, okay, if you get into business you can actually make an impact, like a direct impact.

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We don’t have to wait for policies or things that are way too slow.

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Business is like, you can have an immediate impact.

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So I did that and the business, we’re now 4 years in the business.

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We have clients in 4 continents.

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I have a online master class where people can learn how to do it, uh, how to create a regenerative garden themselves.

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Uh, I’m now looking to work with developers to do big scale developments based on the regenerative principles.

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So, yeah, I’m living my dream.

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It’s not a, it’s- it’s not a, I’d say it’s not always rainbows and- and- and sunshine when you run a business.

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I think you know that.

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Mm-hmm.

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But I’m super happy that I’m really right in the spot.

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And I’m now actually living in- in the Azores, in the middle of the Atlantic.

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I- I made it my home, ’cause I still travel a lot to Canada and to Europe.

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So, yeah, that’s in a nutshell what- what’s been happening, uh, in the last 10 years.

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I l- I love journeys like this.

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Not all of it And I love journeys like this because they help us understand that, you know, we don’t just

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How do I say this?

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We’re not, like, born with all the answers and all of a sudden life takes this linear path.

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And- and even when you’re passionate about something, it doesn’t mean

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Like, I started off in high tech, and when I first, first started, I’d never even planned to go into technology and I went into tech because, uh, a good friend of mine basically found me at a conference, and I was just getting ready to graduate from college, from university, and she was like, “You know what?

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You would really be good at my job.”

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‘Cause she wanted to move on to another role in the company.

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And so she- she was like, “I’m gonna put your name up for my- on my job.”

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And I had no idea, but it turned out to be, you know, doing audio and video online in the really early days of the internet.

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And I remember at 1 point I was sitting in a meeting space where I was helping a group of ladies listen to a symphony from around the world.

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Like, I don’t even remember where it was being broadcast.

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And I remember thinking to myself, “Oh my goodness, this is what I want.

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I want people to be able to experience, like, the- the technology but in a way that nourishes them so much.”

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In that case, it was nourishing them with music.

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And as I fast-forward to today, you know, like you said, you only see things in hindsight, and I think about my own journey with, you know, the music of the plants and then eventually the plants and all this work.

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It- it is easy for those things to go, to derail, to go off onto, like, a path that you’re like, “I studied all this, I did all this work, I did it to help, to create something that was good for the world.

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And then I end up in this place that’s not taking me there, so therefore I have to switch gears.”

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And so, I love that you went off on that walkabout, as we call it, you know, that journey around to try to understand yourself.

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So here’s my question.

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In all this, right, now as you work on these regenerative projects, which are, you know, regenerative garden design and such, where- where do the plants fit in?

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Like, I mean obviously you’re using plants ’cause it’s a garden, but there’s got to be more.

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You don’t go all the way to the Amazon to have a relationship with plants and then walk home and, I don’t know, go to the garden variety, like, garden store and pick up a bunch of plants and just, you know, insert them into the ground.

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Like, there’s got to be more to it.

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What, where- where is your relationship with plants today?

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Very good question.

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That’s a tough one because the way I look at it is that, at the moment, I don’t have a project myself.

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Like, I’m come- I’ve come to the Azores to really get into a project myself, but still today I feel like I’m in a place that I have to serve people more.

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Like, I- I’ve- I’ve thought a long time about, like, okay, I can, I wanna

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Like, I came on this planet, like, to- to

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I want to make sure that this planet is very inhabitable for the future for many generations to come.

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Like, that’s my big why.

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And I started to think, okay, how- how can I do that?

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Okay, I can make my own project, but that has a limited impact, and you might say, “Okay, people might come and visit.”

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Um, but, so it was- it wasn’t enough for me, so I thought, “I need to serve”

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And I- I thought more about it, like, “I really want to do this project and I want”

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I was so focused on- on the project and- and having the impact that I wasn’t focused on the people, and now I’m so committed to helping people because that’s my

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That’s the only way I can get to my goal, is to- to inspire as many people, to empower as many people.

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Like, I still do garden designs and I will keep doing it because I love it.

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I- I love creation, and I love picking plants and finding the right plant for the right location, working with nurseries and

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Or finding other ways that you could do like a- a- a regeneration more naturally and then go with this- the flow of succession.

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Like, this is still what I do, but I now created a master class, and that’s more where I can give it to other people and then they can give it to their garden or some of my students started their own, uh, garden design business.

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So I think-Even if I still have a direct connection with plants, I, I talk to plants, I, I, uh, I, I definitely, like there’s science behind it that however you treat your plants this, like the vibration is gonna increase.

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And somebody actually told me yesterday, uh, it’s my girlfriend who’s working for another, uh, big podcast called, uh, Wellness and Wisdom by Josh Trent, which is quite big in the US.

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And they had someone on the show that said, “Okay, every weed that comes in your garden, the, there, that is actually a plant that wants to serve you.”

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, every weed has, has, uh, specific minerals, uh, and, and somebody told me that these plants appear because they want to help you, so, uh, I think that’s very beautiful.

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So, but I’m working on a, on a project to also do something myself.

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I just, for now I’m dedicated to helping people create the connection with plants themself, yeah.

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Yeah, and this is such an important place because, so, you know, my, my master’s degree is really unique ’cause it’s plant, social innovation and design.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so I became, and I kind of c- came into that because I started, when I first started studying about plant intelligence and working connected with plants, I went down the biomimicry v- you know, route.

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Mm-hmm.

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So biomimicry- Yeah.

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or bio-inspired design, and I’ve, and I fell in love with the whole concept of how is it that plants work with us in the built environment, and I, and I don’t- Mm-hmm.

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I, you know, I, I don’t talk about it as much anymore because I’m outside of a lot of those projects.

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I worked on several EU-based projects also connected to biomimicry and, you know, water loops and, you know, the built environment and all these different perspectives.

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And I am still thoroughly convinced, and I’ve just recently saw something quite beautiful, a beautiful project that’s, that’s being done, um, in the United States around how do, you know, how does the, the plant world through the, the, through the metaphor of the garden or through the, the application of a garden enter into our shared spaces, especially in urban environments, and,

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but in a way that allows relationship to happen?

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Because most current, and you know this better than I do, most current landscape design, especially inside of cities, right, when we’re talking about cities, is to a certain extent sterile, right?

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The whole premise- Mm-hmm.

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is I create this thing that supposedly is aesthetically beautiful- Mm-hmm.

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uh, although one would argue, I would argue that, and yet there’s a very definitive separation between the human part of it and the plant part.

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In other words, look but don’t touch.

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Uh, you know, see what I am.

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And this is, I mean, this is really why eco-feminism as a whole discipline of study is born, because it’s very similar to the way women have been treated in the idea of look, you know, look at me, I’m supposed to be constrained, I have to wear this corset, I have to put on this makeup, I have to do all these things, and I hold you in place, and to be this stylized ideal of beauty, but I do not allow you to express yourself.

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And when you do- Mm-hmm.

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I call that wild and bad and something that you shouldn’t be.

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Mm-hmm.

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When in reality, our

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and that’s what our garden spaces inside of cities often are.

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There’s this, this thing.

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I remember having a conversation with my landscape gardening, um, professor when I did my master’s.

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We were talking about the famous, um, what are they called?

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Uh, uh, Foresta Verticale, like the 2, uh, towers in Milan, right?

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Uh, uh, uh,..

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That everybody

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Exactly, Boetti.

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Yeah, Boetti, uh, and everybody like, I mean, okay, they’re, they can, they have this aspect of sure they’re green, but the, the person who lives in the apartment is not allowed to have any contact with the plant right outside their window.

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They’re, they’re taken care of by a crane that has been installed on the top of each of the towers.

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And our professor didn’t want to say anything, because she’s very polite, but we were like, “No, no, no, you gotta tell us what you really think about this place.”

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And she went off on a rant, because she’s like, “Even when you walk up to the building, there’s these beautiful planters and the plants he planted are not native.

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They, they die in this area.

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They’re constantly being replaced.”

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So, people are living in this beautiful thing, but there’s no relationship happening.

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And so I’m so curious- Yeah.

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as to whether or not, like, in your work, how are you helping people bridge that?

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Like, when people are thinking about their own garden design, how do we break that barrier where it’s not I, human, put you in, and then you sit there, beautiful?

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But instead, it’s, there’s a relationship happening here and we’re supposed to be interacting on a chemical level, on a energetic level, on an electromagnetic level, on a physical level, even, when it’s appropriate.

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Does that even make any sense?

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00:21:31,299 –> 00:21:32,639
Yeah, yeah, a lot.

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It dr- uh, your whole story and question reminded me of a lecture we had on the history of gardens.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, if we go back in history, the first garden that was ever created is the Hortus Inclusius, which is like a walled garden.

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So, this was in the time where nature was very hostile for people at that time.

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Because we had wild, like, whole Europe was still mostly forests.

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You had wolves, bears, like, it was not the safest environment to just wander around in.

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So, what, what the, the walled garden was a representation of like, okay, outside, there’s the crazy wild world that we are very scared of, and inside we will create something that we can tame.

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And that went on still very long into history, like the French gardens.

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It’s a, um, a pro- uh, like, like a show off of how we dominate, dominate nature.

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That’s what the French garden represent.

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It also shows- Yep.

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like, wealth.

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“I can afford something.

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I can afford something that can be maintained.”

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Like big, big pieces of lawn that are mown, mowed.

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It’s more like a, a status symbol.

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Um, interestingly enough, around that same time, and, or no, this is a bit later, this was in the 1800s, it became like a flex or a, a symbol of wealth was to collect plants from all over the world, which was the creation of the, the, um, yeah, botanical gardens, botanical parks.

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They were all in, in the 1800s.

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Yep, and they were very- It’s still a cool thing, you know, you have a lot of money and you say, “Okay, I want to have all the plants of the world.

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Why not?”

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Kind of like that, uh, that idea.

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But still, mostly it was to dominate nature.

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And then we are now in the post, you could say post-industrial times, where we’ve completely dominated nature and we’re completely disconnected from nature because of the industrial revolution, because of, um, collapse of ecosystems and, and, yeah.

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There’s just so little nature left that now the trend would be to reverse that and actually make your garden an environment that supports nature.

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Mm-hmm.

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And supports biodiversity.

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And this is the big trend, like a lot of the naturalistic gardens, like Piet Oudolf is a famous garden designer.

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Even you could still argue how natural it is, but it looks natural.

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That’s the least you could say.

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So now people are getting more connected to a more wilder looking garden, which is great.

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But it also comes with a, with a few challenges, like if you just plant things randomly and then you let it go, then, yeah, that’s not gonna work.

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So you need the knowledge of how nature works and that’s what I teach in my masterclass.

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Like, okay, first of all, let’s understand how nature works.

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How does succession work?

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How do plants, um, yeah, how does a plant grow?

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Why do weeds come?

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That’s, that’s like a very important knowledge and it’s also in my book, 12, 12 Universal Laws of Nature.

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So when we can then understand nature, we can use that to our own advantage in the garden.

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And so how I do that with my clients and my students, it’s like, okay, you first have to get really clear on what you want.

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What’s your vision like?

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Why do you even want the

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Do you want edible plants?

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Do you want flowers?

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Do you want to create a sanctuary for birds, for butterflies?

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Like, what, what excites you?

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Because I see a lot of garden designers, architects do that as well.

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They come into a garden and say, “Oh, here, I’m gonna put that, and there, I’m gonna put this.

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And if I put that there, it’s going to be really beautiful.”

295
00:25:13,539 –> 00:25:21,699
But they don’t listen to the clients, or they don’t listen to themselves in, in case you’re like a, uh, a student of, of a class.

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Because then everybody thinks you have to have raised beds with vegetables.

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00:25:26,079 –> 00:25:35,859
I don’t see the need for that because it’s a lot of work, it’s very expensive, and you could better go to a farmer’s market and support a, a farmer to buy veggies.

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Which I’m not saying that you shouldn’t, because like, for me example, for me, for example, I love growing vegetables.

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I’m, I’m very passionate about it and I was 5 years old, so it’s kind of in my genes.

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So you have to get clear on what you want and then use that, um, to set or use that vision to then create it in the garden.

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And usually how I do it with my one-on-one clients is I, I sell them what they want

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like, uh, they want a low maintenance

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00:26:04,035 –> 00:26:06,155
Most of them, they want a low maintenance garden.

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They want flowers.

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Like I had this one project, and I, I’ll keep referring to it because it’s a shifting moment in my business.

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What

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I had gathered a lot of information from taking courses, applying certain things, and I had this one client, she, she loved what I did.

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She said, “Um, I want you to create a garden that has flowers, edible plants, herbs.

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00:26:28,875 –> 00:26:31,055
Uh, I love, uh, attracting butterflies.

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I want also vegetables.”

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00:26:32,635 –> 00:26:34,704
She want like- she made a whole list.

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00:26:35,295 –> 00:26:39,760
Uh, and she finished and she said, “But I also want it to be really low in maintenance-“

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00:26:40,258 –> 00:26:41,584
because I have a very busy job.”

314
00:26:42,516 –> 00:26:49,615
And I kind of laughed to it because up until that point, I was like, “No, there’s no way that you can low maintenance garden that is also so diverse.”

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00:26:49,615 –> 00:26:52,955
But something came to me like, “You know what?

316
00:26:52,955 –> 00:26:57,915
Let’s take the challenge and I’m gonna create that and make it super low in maintenance.”

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00:26:57,915 –> 00:27:07,792
So we applied all the knowledge that I gathered, which is mostly about- around soil health and supporting the plants to grow and picking the right plant for the right location.

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00:27:08,975 –> 00:27:26,175
Uh, and this garden, which is a 300 square meter garden, which is about 3,200 square feet, it’s not huge, it’s not small, um, it, it takes 12 hours of maintenance, uh, in 9 months, which is the growing season in Belgium.

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So it’s super low in maintenance and she has everything she wants.

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00:27:29,195 –> 00:27:32,715
So, um, it’s definitely possible.

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00:27:32,715 –> 00:27:38,128
You just need to tap into the knowledge of, of how nature works because in, in nature there isn’t

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No maintenance or very little.

323
00:27:40,715 –> 00:27:43,095
You have grazing animals that, eat- Mm-hmm.

324
00:27:43,095 –> 00:27:46,815
here and there, and that’s kind of how you should maintain your garden as well.

325
00:27:46,815 –> 00:27:55,035
Like you graze here and there and change some things, like trimming a little bit here and there, and then you keep that beauty, uh, going.

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00:27:55,035 –> 00:28:02,135
But before we go into that, let’s take a brief pause so that I can share with you one of our eco-conscious business partners.

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00:28:02,135 –> 00:28:10,000
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334
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00:29:13,775 –> 00:29:20,638
I want you to have the same experiences I do for all of my podcasting needs, and it’s time to share your story.

340
00:29:21,775 –> 00:29:23,375
Okay, I’m gonna challenge you.

341
00:29:23,375 –> 00:29:23,554.9999999997672
Okay.

342
00:29:23,554.9999999997672 –> 00:29:30,355
And I know I told, I know I told you I would do this, so I’m gonna challenge you because you keep using an expression- Yeah, let’s do this.

343
00:29:30,355 –> 00:29:37,455
No, it’s- You keep using an expression that, in my opinion, it’s something you learned to say in this way.

344
00:29:37,455 –> 00:29:37,616
Uh-huh.

345
00:29:38,355 –> 00:29:45,155
But based on everything I know about you from this meeting and from when we spoke before, I don’t really think- Mm-hmm.

346
00:29:45,155 –> 00:29:49,554.9999999997672
it’s how you think about it, but I feel like it’s just the words that you’re used to using.

347
00:29:49,554.9999999997672 –> 00:29:53,315
So you keep saying, “Knowledge of how nature works.”

348
00:29:53,315 –> 00:29:55,935
And, you know, when you understand how nature

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00:29:55,935 –> 00:29:59,600
And you use- keep using nature as if it’s something outside of you.

350
00:30:00,295 –> 00:30:25,155
And recently I’ve had several of my guests and we’ve had- been having this running conversation, which is that for people who grow up on farms of whatever sort, people who grow up immersed in a natural environment, there’s, um, there’s an inherent understanding of how the world operates that doesn’t come

351
00:30:25,155 –> 00:30:28,016
That, that comes from being a participant in it.

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00:30:28,635 –> 00:30:30,215.00000000023283
In particular- Mm-hmm.

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00:30:34,380 –> 00:30:35,180
So we’re just gonna- Love it.

354
00:30:35,180 –> 00:30:40,336
try to use a few words to, like, play around with things for a second, just ’cause I’m so curious as to where it goes with you.

355
00:30:40,819 –> 00:30:40,840
Mm-hmm.

356
00:30:40,840 –> 00:30:57,679
Which is, I think, what I, what I keep hearing happen is that you grow up in this environment where there’s this relationship where you’ve cultivated sh- you know, you, you’ve had to enter into a relationship with the plants.

357
00:30:57,679 –> 00:30:59,819
You’ve had to enter a relationship with the animals.

358
00:30:59,819 –> 00:31:02,159
There’s this, like, very close contact.

359
00:31:02,159 –> 00:31:07,024
Then you go off to university, and university, unfortunately, as you said, teaches you dominion.

360
00:31:07,659 –> 00:31:24,400
You know, in order for you to do your job, landscape architect, garden designer, whatever it is, you are supposed to take the material you work with, which in this case are plants, and, like, be the master.

361
00:31:25,419 –> 00:31:29,456
And you’re the one who’s supposed to tell them, like, what they’re supposed to do and what they’re supposed to be.

362
00:31:30,019 –> 00:31:37,232
And so, therefore, you think of, like, “That’s nature, and I am this thing outside of it.”

363
00:31:38,059 –> 00:31:50,439
But in reality, especially when we’re talking about regeneration and we’re talking about, like, even what is kind of called low-maintenance, which means I have to build relationships, right?

364
00:31:50,439 –> 00:31:59,939
I have to look at all the plants based on the needs and the desires of the person that I’m working with and say, “Okay, you, person, you are”

365
00:31:59,939 –> 00:32:22,359
I have to create an environment that has a series of relationships that allows these beings, which are all different plants, to grow in a healthy way, to reproduce on a regular basis, whether that’s flowering, whether that’s, you know, um, producing fruit or any other kind of, or vegetable or any of types of things.

366
00:32:22,359 –> 00:32:36,539
So you have to be healthy because you know they don’t reproduce, can, don’t reproduce if you don’t, if they’re not healthy or if they’re in the wrong environment, because you could have a beautiful, I don’t know, banana tree in the middle of, like, the Val Chiusella where I live in Italy.

367
00:32:36,539 –> 00:32:49,239
And of course, the leaves are gonna come out because plants are resilient as hell, but it’s not gonna put out a banana like it does at my friend’s house in South Florida, right, where she gets so many bananas that we have to, like, freeze

368
00:32:49,239 –> 00:32:51,839
Her freezer becomes full of bananas.

369
00:32:51,839 –> 00:33:03,819
So you’re creating relationships that are based on location, that are based on, um, who’s sitting next to you, who’s growing with you, and all these different things.

370
00:33:03,819 –> 00:33:19,519
And so the only way you could really do that with it being low-maintenance, this is my opinion only, and I’d love to hear what your thoughts are, is if you’re talking about high-maintenance, then yes, you could be, um, in dominion, because at that point, you control everything.

371
00:33:19,519 –> 00:33:21,099
I switch plants out.

372
00:33:21,099 –> 00:33:22,559
I artificially feed you.

373
00:33:22,559 –> 00:33:23,999
I artificially give you light.

374
00:33:23,999 –> 00:33:28,400
I do all these types of things, and I constrain you to grow however it is that I want you to grow.

375
00:33:29,159 –> 00:33:48,688
But low-maintenance by nature means you are nature, because you’re, you have to know them so well, you have to be in that relationship, that you can nudge them into, like, “I’m gonna put you guys together, but then I’m gonna step away, and you’re gonna grow on your own.”

376
00:33:50,239 –> 00:33:50,919
And so- Mm-hmm.

377
00:33:50,919 –> 00:33:54,799
you can’t really do that if you’re dominion over them.

378
00:33:54,799 –> 00:33:55,439
Does that make

379
00:33:55,439 –> 00:33:56,859
You know, you understand what I’m trying to say?

380
00:33:56,859 –> 00:33:59,088
Oh, yeah, totally.

381
00:33:59,682 –> 00:34:00,719
I agree with that.

382
00:34:00,719 –> 00:34:07,199
And that’s, I think, why I, the, the title of my book is 12 Universal, Universal Laws of Nature.

383
00:34:07,199 –> 00:34:10,799
So it applies for your personal life, applies to nature.

384
00:34:10,799 –> 00:34:12,119.00000000023283
So yeah, I feel you 100%.

385
00:34:12,119.00000000023283 –> 00:34:13,918.9999999997672
Not nature, ’cause you are nature.

386
00:34:13,918.9999999997672 –> 00:34:16,699
Appreciate- It applies to the nat- to the more than human world.

387
00:34:16,699 –> 00:34:19,899
Well, yeah, but we are part of nature, so we have to also say that it- Exactly.

388
00:34:19,899 –> 00:34:20,978.9999999997672
applies to nature.

389
00:34:20,978.9999999997672 –> 00:34:21,279
That, that it’s just a way of putting words.

390
00:34:21,279 –> 00:34:21,719
I get that.

391
00:34:21,719 –> 00:34:22,639.0000000002328
Now I get it.

392
00:34:22,639.0000000002328 –> 00:34:23,056
Okay.

393
00:34:23,639.0000000002328 –> 00:34:24,219
I like it.

394
00:34:24,219 –> 00:34:25,379
Um, we still have to, like

395
00:34:25,379 –> 00:34:28,739
Abs- like, words never come enough to explain the concept.

396
00:34:28,739 –> 00:34:29,967.9999999997672
They, they’re always limiting.

397
00:34:30,719 –> 00:34:34,339
Um, but we still have to find a way to communicate.

398
00:34:34,339 –> 00:34:38,759
And I still believe, like I said, I call it that’s what my clients want, low-maintenance.

399
00:34:38,759 –> 00:34:45,699
And that’s actually what they need as well, because you don’t want to be spending hours and hours in, in maintaining, sitting on your knees, pulling the weeds.

400
00:34:45,699 –> 00:34:47,760.0000000002328
That, that’s, that’s ridiculous.

401
00:34:48,359 –> 00:34:51,056
Like, that, that, that makes no sense.

402
00:34:51,779 –> 00:34:58,959
Um, so we can actually create that by understanding how nature, which w- which we are intrinsically part of.

403
00:34:58,959 –> 00:34:59,439
There’s

404
00:34:59,439 –> 00:35:07,504
That’s what I, uh, talk about in, in some of my, uh, social media is that the Amazon rainforest is actually manmade.

405
00:35:08,499 –> 00:35:12,279
It’s made by the indigenous that have selected trees, cut down trees.

406
00:35:12,279 –> 00:35:13,319
They added trees.

407
00:35:13,319 –> 00:35:14,199
They changed it.

408
00:35:14,199 –> 00:35:16,830
They, they bred them to be bigger.

409
00:35:17,559 –> 00:35:19,838
And that’s why the Amazon rainforest is so,

410
00:35:20,619 –> 00:35:30,38.99999999953434
Well, it’s not the only reason, but it, the humans definitely had an impact, uh, as, such as how also animals have an impact on how plants grow.

411
00:35:30,38.99999999953434 –> 00:35:39,568
Like, um, giraffes made, made acacia trees become different because they now have a certain scent that they can send signals, “Oh, there’s a giraffe coming.

412
00:35:40,239 –> 00:35:43,259
Uh, we have to start producing toxins in our leaves.

413
00:35:43,259 –> 00:35:44,560
Otherwise, we’re gonna be eaten.”

414
00:35:45,299 –> 00:35:46,299
Uh, they communicate- Right.

415
00:35:46,299 –> 00:35:46,939
with each other.

416
00:35:46,939 –> 00:35:52,976
So we are part of nature, but we also influence nature, and nature influences us.

417
00:35:53,538.9999999995343 –> 00:35:55,262
Uh, so yeah, it’s kind of- There’s-

418
00:35:55,879 –> 00:35:58,179
this holistic way of looking at things.

419
00:35:58,179 –> 00:36:00,079
It’s, it becomes quite complicated.

420
00:36:00,079 –> 00:36:00,119
I completely agree.

421
00:36:00,119 –> 00:36:17,231
I completely agree.But at the same time we have to take elements and ab- make it abstract for people to understand ’cause, yeah, you could say that everything is always connected and, and that it is true, but then we still have to get to the knowledge and, and apply it, uh- Yeah.

422
00:36:17,231 –> 00:36:26,431
and do some work in your garden just like animals and just like the indigenous people are, are, yeah, crafting nature- Yes.

423
00:36:26,431 –> 00:36:27,344
you could almost say.

424
00:36:27,874 –> 00:36:31,251
I wanna, I wanna tell you about this ’cause I think you’re gonna find it fascinating.

425
00:36:31,251 –> 00:36:43,184
So I did, um, I do this plant consciousness commentary on Fridays which is where I break down the science, like papers, but I also, um, comment on conferences and stuff like that.

426
00:36:43,792 –> 00:37:07,281
And one of the recent episodes that I did was commentary on a fantastic keynote by Emanuele Coccia, uh, Coccia, from, um, he is, uh, he did this really interesting talk during the Thinking with Plants and Fungi conference where he talked about- Yeah.

427
00:37:07,351 –> 00:37:11,791
this concept that most people don’t realize that the Amazon are manmade.

428
00:37:11,791 –> 00:37:20,891
Like, in other words, ma- um, humanity, our, um, humans are an integral part of what has created the Amazon.

429
00:37:20,891 –> 00:37:31,111
The Amazon, um, left without humans would have had a very different way of being, but our presence as one of the animals present in the ecosystem has created it.

430
00:37:31,111 –> 00:38:01,411
And so he goes through this and he explains it to people and he actually theorizes, which I find fascinating, his, his plan- his basically talk is, are cities the children of plants because his philosophy in understanding that the Amazon, starting with the Amazon as being human influenced is that the humans had to, um, basically the plants needed

431
00:38:01,411 –> 00:38:18,331
the humans to be around, needed the humans to do the things that humans can do because we have 2 legs, we have 2 arms, because we hunt in a different way from, uh, a lion or a tiger or a bear or a, or any other kind of, or a cougar or a coyote or any of this types of things.

432
00:38:18,331 –> 00:38:20,711.0000000004657
We have a different- Also cutting down some plants.

433
00:38:20,711.0000000004657 –> 00:38:21,371
Exactly.

434
00:38:21,371 –> 00:38:22,974
We have the ability to cut- Especially for me

435
00:38:23,931 –> 00:38:24,511
Exactly.

436
00:38:24,511 –> 00:38:39,291
We have the ability to do all these things so we’re one of the hu- we’re one of the animals that does very specific things like every other, and so therefore the cities are created as ways to keep the humans nearby so that the humans

437
00:38:39,291 –> 00:39:07,431
So cities, of course they’ve expanded into the urban sprawl that we think about, but even towns, which is a small city, is created and a little, you know, like all these little towns and all these little villages are really ways of the f- forest keeping humans close and allowing the humans to have their own kind of inc- it’s, it’s super fascinating when you start to think about it because he then says, he, he

438
00:39:07,431 –> 00:39:07,891
Exactly.

439
00:39:07,891 –> 00:39:28,176
So he talks about how if we looked at the gardens inside of urban spaces as really the opposite, it’s rather than us having the, the nature close, it’s the nature trying to keep us close, then how would our cities look or how would our garden spaces look?

440
00:39:28,871 –> 00:39:33,711.0000000004657
And he goes into this r- it’s a, it’s a fascinating talk, so worth listening to.

441
00:39:33,711.0000000004657 –> 00:39:39,198
I’ve already heard it twice because it’s just like there’s so much in there to conceptualize.

442
00:39:40,011 –> 00:39:48,431
But he kind of keeps going back to the fact of when we remember that we’re nature but that we are of course having human, we have our own form

443
00:39:48,431 –> 00:39:49,791
This is what I take from it.

444
00:39:49,791 –> 00:39:52,254
We have our own form and we have our own roles.

445
00:39:53,031 –> 00:40:07,231
What happens and how is it that we continue, how can we instead re-embody those roles to have a relationship in our garden spaces with plants, but a relationship where it honors that I am human?

446
00:40:07,231 –> 00:40:08,371
So, you know- Mm-hmm.

447
00:40:08,371 –> 00:40:13,871
sure, I have the ability to do certain things that other animals don’t have the ability to do.

448
00:40:13,871 –> 00:40:16,711.0000000004657
Like you said, I can cut in a different way and all the

449
00:40:16,711.0000000004657 –> 00:40:18,654
I even eat in a very different way.

450
00:40:19,531 –> 00:40:27,911
And, and so it’s like it reshi- it’s, it redefines the relationship with the garden, right?

451
00:40:29,559 –> 00:40:32,784
It’s as if we are now the children of the garden.

452
00:40:33,479 –> 00:40:34,479
We are- Yeah.

453
00:40:34,479 –> 00:40:35,759
and which is true, right?

454
00:40:35,759 –> 00:40:44,419
We are the ones that benefit to a certain extent from the garden, but not benefit in the perspective of the colonistic I take.

455
00:40:44,419 –> 00:40:48,899
But think of it as the garden is my parent, which is very similar

456
00:40:48,899 –> 00:40:50,879
I did a project for my, for my master’s.

457
00:40:50,879 –> 00:40:56,606
My master’s project was connected to Matera, which is a city in, uh, southern Italy.

458
00:40:57,559 –> 00:41:02,439
It’s one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world.

459
00:41:02,439 –> 00:41:06,139
Like, it’s, um, it’s from the old time when we still lived in

460
00:41:06,139 –> 00:41:08,979
when we were cave people, when we still lived in caves.

461
00:41:08,979 –> 00:41:09,679
And so when

462
00:41:09,679 –> 00:41:15,312
In the cave, the cave was the living part for the human, protection and all those things.

463
00:41:16,119 –> 00:41:28,059
there was then a terrace, which was the area where the different caves connected so that people could unite, and the garden that existed there was the, the garden that was important for food.

464
00:41:28,059 –> 00:41:33,979
Like, but not food as in, like, agriculture, because agriculture was outside of the city.

465
00:41:33,979 –> 00:41:41,104
It was more of the food for, like, a herb garden and little things that you need close to the kitchen.

466
00:41:41,739 –> 00:41:49,559
And then there was the pensile garden, the garden that was, like, above the caves, and that was the contemplation garden.

467
00:41:49,559 –> 00:41:51,439
The fact that plants- Mm-hmm.

468
00:41:51,439 –> 00:41:55,539
as our parents, needed us to contemplate, to

469
00:41:55,539 –> 00:42:05,679
They needed for us to philosophize with them, to rest, to have this relationship of com- communication and exchange.

470
00:42:05,679 –> 00:42:10,359
And so that was the pensile garden that was above the, the

471
00:42:10,359 –> 00:42:19,679
So you had agriculture outside of the city, because that was the relationship where forest becomes, you know, garden and all this.

472
00:42:19,679 –> 00:42:44,400
You had the garden in, b- really in the shared area, which was the shared things that we need for cooking, simple things that we needed for our every day, and then you had the pensile, which was nature’s way of staying in communion and continuingly, like, reminding us that we’re part of nature, but our needs are to be in the caves, and so here’s how we end up relating.

473
00:42:45,379 –> 00:42:48,019
I loved this project so much.

474
00:42:48,019 –> 00:43:06,519
I actually have the images of what we designed, um, here sitting kind of below me, because it made me realize when then I heard Emmanuelle talk, I realized, oh my goodness, if I think of plants as my parents, then the relationship is so different.

475
00:43:06,519 –> 00:43:09,059
Yes, I take care of my parents in old age.

476
00:43:09,059 –> 00:43:11,379
Yes, I help my parents do things.

477
00:43:11,379 –> 00:43:21,259
But because that’s how they nourish me, you know, in all these other pieces, and they nourish me with their knowledge, and in the case of plants, with their bodies, with all these other aspects.

478
00:43:21,259 –> 00:43:46,672
It w- it’s, it’s still a concept I’m running through my mind, because it completely shifts the relationship of the garden to being our, our ancestors, our parents that are giving of us, and it’s kind of closer to the indigenous wisdom of really looking at, like, the 3 sisters and the whole concept that these are my, my elders that are giving of their bodies and giving of their n- life in order to nourish me.

479
00:43:48,994 –> 00:43:51,679
I went off on another rant, but I just love it so much.

480
00:43:51,679 –> 00:43:52,359
Well, it’s not a rant.

481
00:43:52,359 –> 00:43:53,419
I mean, a tangent.

482
00:43:53,419 –> 00:43:53,439
No.

483
00:43:53,439 –> 00:43:54,099
That’s amazing-

484
00:43:54,099 –> 00:44:09,199
because I think, uh, it reminds me of, uh, some research I read that, uh, the most biodiverse areas of the world are the pristine m- um, national parks where- Mm-hmm.

485
00:44:09,199 –> 00:44:15,166
you have grazing animals, um, hun- hunting animals as well.

486
00:44:16,099 –> 00:44:21,219
But the other ones is the suburbs of cities, because everybody’s growing different plants.

487
00:44:21,219 –> 00:44:24,560
There’s, uh, uh, even plants that are not necessarily indigenous.

488
00:44:25,442 –> 00:44:27,38.99999999953434
Plants from all over the world mixed.

489
00:44:27,38.99999999953434 –> 00:44:29,479
You’re, you grow this, your neighbor grows something else.

490
00:44:29,479 –> 00:44:29,919
Right.

491
00:44:29,919 –> 00:44:32,499
And that’s what really attracts a lot of wildlife as well.

492
00:44:32,499 –> 00:44:39,326
So from, from that perspective or from a biology standpoint, it also makes a lot of stan- sense.

493
00:44:40,418 –> 00:44:41,479
Yeah, it’s really

494
00:44:41,479 –> 00:44:42,719
It, it helps shift us.

495
00:44:42,719 –> 00:44:55,099
And I think the work that people like you do that are important is to help the individuals who maybe grew up in a city and are afraid, because most of us are afraid of, like, “I don’t know how to grow something.

496
00:44:55,099 –> 00:45:00,459
I don’t know how to do it, and yet I feel this call to have this relationship.

497
00:45:00,459 –> 00:45:05,439
And so I need just enou- I need the knowledge in order to start it right, right?

498
00:45:05,439 –> 00:45:10,199
To not make some of the errors that have been made in the past, and at the same time- Mm-hmm.

499
00:45:10,199 –> 00:45:17,759
to create something that I can relate to and that I can continue to, you know, nourish and have a relationship with over time.”

500
00:45:17,759 –> 00:45:24,959
And I think that that’s really what’s most important about the kind of work that people like you do, is you’re almost like relationship builders.

501
00:45:24,959 –> 00:45:28,510
You’re relationship builders, you’re inter-species relationship builders.

502
00:45:31,479 –> 00:45:36,619
Yeah, sometimes I feel like I’m a relationship, uh, therapist as well when- Right.

503
00:45:36,619 –> 00:45:36,639
Exactly.

504
00:45:36,639 –> 00:45:39,639
I have a couple and they can’t agree on what they want for the garden.

505
00:45:39,639 –> 00:45:40,432
I have to like

506
00:45:41,799 –> 00:45:42,859
But that’s another story.

507
00:45:42,859 –> 00:45:45,019
Yeah, you can have the plants, though, do it.

508
00:45:45,019 –> 00:45:46,319
You’re like, “Okay, I want you both-” Yeah.

509
00:45:46,319 –> 00:45:51,230
to talk to this cucumber and let the cucumber help you, like, guide you along the way.”

510
00:45:52,354 –> 00:45:52,959
Yeah, yeah.

511
00:45:52,959 –> 00:45:53,360
Totally.

512
00:45:54,219 –> 00:45:55,059
So Matthew, how

513
00:45:55,059 –> 00:45:58,139
I know that, that you’ve kind of, like, have a short window of time.

514
00:45:58,139 –> 00:46:00,299
How do people get in touch with you?

515
00:46:00,299 –> 00:46:02,879
How do they work with you and, you know, and such?

516
00:46:02,879 –> 00:46:10,528.0000000004657
H- help people understand, like, where, where it is that you operate and how you operate.Yeah, thank you for asking it.

517
00:46:10,528.0000000004657 –> 00:46:15,607
So mostly if you Google my name, you’ll get to most of the social media platforms.

518
00:46:15,607 –> 00:46:26,227
I’m active on Instagram, where it’s more like, DIY garden tips and tricks and hacks and, and knowledge about regenerative gardening.

519
00:46:26,227 –> 00:46:29,846.9999999995343
Uh, and if you click through there, you can also get to a 30-minute free training.

520
00:46:29,846.9999999995343 –> 00:46:43,987
And if you like that, you can actually book a meeting, uh, with me, uh, through Calendly, and then I can see if I can help you or that, if you’re, if the master class is a fit for you, like, we are, we’ll, we’ll have a conversation because I don’t allow just anyone.

521
00:46:43,987 –> 00:46:50,487
You need to be like, really ready to, to do the work because I need committed, uh, people-

522
00:46:50,487 –> 00:46:53,067
because, yeah, you need to absorb a lot.

523
00:46:53,067 –> 00:46:57,346.99999999953434
But, uh, interestingly enough, I find that knowledge part is, is quite easy.

524
00:46:57,346.99999999953434 –> 00:47:01,936
Okay, there’s a lot of misinformation and wrong information, which is also very confusing.

525
00:47:02,467 –> 00:47:09,886
But I think the, the biggest benefit of grow- coming into this community is like you’re, you’re together with other like-minded people.

526
00:47:10,407 –> 00:47:11,987
You’re learning from each other.

527
00:47:11,987 –> 00:47:13,887
There’s, we have a weekly group meeting.

528
00:47:13,887 –> 00:47:23,487
We get together, we talk, we talk plans and what works, what doesn’t work, why are certain things not working, um, and a WhatsApp support group as well, and you just share.

529
00:47:23,487 –> 00:47:27,536
Yeah, I think this, this community and accountability aspect is really important.

530
00:47:28,107 –> 00:47:36,510
Uh, I think in my opinion, that’s probably the only businesses that are going to be left in the future, as already with AI, knowledge is readily available.

531
00:47:37,058 –> 00:47:42,707
Still you need to know what to look for, uh, ’cause you, today, you can find anything.

532
00:47:42,707 –> 00:47:42,727
Right.

533
00:47:42,727 –> 00:47:42,747
Exactly.

534
00:47:42,747 –> 00:47:45,360
If you want to believe in anything, you can find evidence for it.

535
00:47:46,527 –> 00:47:52,766
Um, so you still need to, to work with people that have the, the experience and, the results.

536
00:47:53,367 –> 00:47:53,447
Right.

537
00:47:53,447 –> 00:47:56,144
So that’s why I also created this, this master class.

538
00:47:56,807 –> 00:47:58,687
Um, so yeah, that’s Instagram.

539
00:47:58,687 –> 00:48:02,547
Then, uh, you can find me on LinkedIn as well, which is more about companies.

540
00:48:02,547 –> 00:48:15,047
I want companies to invest in their green space for their buildings or around their buildings mostly, because there’s a lot of research showing that people will stay, uh, working longer for you if you have- Absolutely.

541
00:48:15,047 –> 00:48:16,247
a beautiful environment.

542
00:48:16,247 –> 00:48:22,878
They have- the stress level goes down, uh, retention is longer, so they will, they will, they won’t quit their job as quickly.

543
00:48:23,427 –> 00:48:28,432
Uh, so a bunch of parameters that show that, um, other than general value creation.

544
00:48:29,087 –> 00:48:30,910
Uh, so that’s what we do there.

545
00:48:31,458 –> 00:48:34,096
TikTok is a bit like just random thoughts.

546
00:48:34,727 –> 00:48:37,267
Uh, and yeah, I think that’s it.

547
00:48:37,267 –> 00:48:40,670
Facebook, you can also find me on Facebook, which is bi- a bit of a mix.

548
00:48:41,627 –> 00:48:44,007
Uh, so yeah, that’s where you can find me most.

549
00:48:44,007 –> 00:48:44,787.0000000004657
Nice.

550
00:48:44,787.0000000004657 –> 00:48:57,727
Yeah, the, the whole, I mean, biophilic design and garden design and all these elements and really creating that inter, you know, inter-species way of being is so important and, you know, that sense of awe, the wonder.

551
00:48:57,727 –> 00:49:07,927
There’s so much scientific research that helps us better understand that our relationship to plant- with plants really nourishes us on every single level, right?

552
00:49:07,927 –> 00:49:23,427
On a physical level and an emotional level and a psychological level, like all these different pieces that help that when we have plants in close proximity, especially in areas that we don’t normally have them, like, like, you know, an office environment is- it just changes.

553
00:49:23,427 –> 00:49:24,752
It’s such a game changer.

554
00:49:25,467 –> 00:49:37,707
And I’ve seen, you know, I’ve seen companies that have done some amazing work to create that relationship and giving people more space for that contemplation, because again, that’s where that, that’s where those great ideas come from, right?

555
00:49:37,707 –> 00:49:57,886.9999999995343
From that time when I allow myself to sit in the garden and to connect into the natural world, to feel that plantness of myself, to find my stillness, to find my centering, and to then be inspired by the awe and wonder that nature, that nature, you know, the nature outside of me that the more than human world, uh, offers and then that triggers inside of me.

556
00:49:57,886.9999999995343 –> 00:50:01,147
And of course, that’s where all the great ideas come from.

557
00:50:01,147 –> 00:50:17,667
So it makes sense that more and more companies are starting to invest in the creation of a beautiful space that is enriching their, you know, their, um, employees, because, I mean, really who wants to work in a place that’s just concrete and, uh, you know, square walls?

558
00:50:17,667 –> 00:50:19,507
It’s just, it’s not fun at all.

559
00:50:19,507 –> 00:50:20,496
It’s not, not healthy.

560
00:50:21,187 –> 00:50:22,886.9999999995343
So thank you so much, Matthew.

561
00:50:22,886.9999999995343 –> 00:50:24,487
This has been a really great conversation.

562
00:50:24,487 –> 00:50:26,739
I’m super, I’m super happy that we had a chance to do it.

563
00:50:26,739 –> 00:50:31,859
I, I could probably talk and geek out about a bunch of stuff with you ’cause I have like all kinds of- Yeah.

564
00:50:31,859 –> 00:50:36,819
nerdy biophilic design questions and landscape architect questions and super technical type of stuff.

565
00:50:36,819 –> 00:50:36,840
For sure.

566
00:50:36,840 –> 00:50:40,479
But I’m sure that conversation will come at some point, um- Yes.

567
00:50:40,479 –> 00:50:45,200
especially because I’ve been out of the projects for a while, and so it’s like sometimes I get to hear about them.

568
00:50:45,200 –> 00:50:47,380
It’s like, “Ooh, what are people doing over here?”

569
00:50:47,380 –> 00:50:48,559
And so- Yeah.

570
00:50:48,559 –> 00:50:50,520
I always think that that’s super fun.

571
00:50:50,520 –> 00:50:54,619
So thank you so much for, for being here, for sharing all of your knowledge.

572
00:50:54,619 –> 00:50:57,360
And of course, I’m gonna include everything in the show notes.

573
00:50:57,360 –> 00:51:00,624
Do you have any last words of wisdom before I close everything off?

574
00:51:01,839 –> 00:51:02,139
No.

575
00:51:02,139 –> 00:51:07,399
Uh, I think most important for the listeners is like, okay, if you want to get your hands dirty, do it.

576
00:51:07,399 –> 00:51:08,359
Try some stuff.

577
00:51:08,359 –> 00:51:10,059
If it works, good.

578
00:51:10,059 –> 00:51:14,639
Mostly people are stuck because they go to the garden center and buy plants that don’t grow- Don’t do that.

579
00:51:14,639 –> 00:51:15,966
so get expert knowledge- Don’t do that.

580
00:51:16,578 –> 00:51:18,219
because you want to get straight to it.

581
00:51:18,219 –> 00:51:25,099
So if you feel like, “I want to do it now,” just go directly and book a meeting with me, uh, and we’ll see how I can help you the most.

582
00:51:25,099 –> 00:51:31,499
And I’m very excited to continue this conversation with you and, and see where it can overlap, uh, with what you’re doing.

583
00:51:31,499 –> 00:51:31,859
Yeah.

584
00:51:31,859 –> 00:51:32,559
I love it.

585
00:51:32,559 –> 00:51:42,032
I think it’s amazing you’re bringing this knowledge into the world that is like a, a next step already of like how we as humans can go back to the Garden of Eden.

586
00:51:43,298 –> 00:51:44,399
Thank you so much.

587
00:51:44,399 –> 00:51:45,759
Those are the beautiful words.

588
00:51:45,759 –> 00:51:47,939
And thank everybody who’s listening.

589
00:51:47,939 –> 00:51:53,939
I, you know, go if you’re been trying to understand what it takes to build a garden, go out and check out Matthew.

590
00:51:53,939 –> 00:51:57,559
Get a, get a bunch of his information, contact him, have a meeting.

591
00:51:57,559 –> 00:51:59,299
And because this is exactly what we need.

592
00:51:59,299 –> 00:52:07,559
We need to create relationships with our plants, close to us, and a garden space is one of the most beautiful ways to do that.

593
00:52:07,559 –> 00:52:23,019
So if you enjoyed this episode, of course, remember to like and subscribe and share and, you know, all that good stuff that you can do wherever it is that you’re listening to it because that gets more people informed and aware of the amazing work people like Matthew are doing.

594
00:52:23,019 –> 00:52:35,619
And of course, if you want to go deeper into these conversations, the Naturally Conscious community is the place to go because this is a ecosystem online that is completely dedicated to human-plant relationships.

595
00:52:35,619 –> 00:52:40,542
So with that, remember to resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

596
00:52:41,119 –> 00:52:41,776
That’s it.

597
00:52:43,579 –> 00:52:46,910
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

598
00:52:47,426 –> 00:52:57,808
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with otherkin.

599
00:52:58,419 –> 00:53:07,824
Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group.

600
00:53:08,459 –> 00:53:13,699
Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life.

601
00:53:13,699 –> 00:53:18,819
Intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli and Poinsetta from The Singing Life of Plants.

602
00:53:18,819 –> 00:53:22,439
That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia, and my plant collaborators.

603
00:53:22,439 –> 00:53:26,608
Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

604
00:53:27,199 –> 00:53:27,919
I’m out.

605
00:53:27,919 –> 00:53:28,459
Bye.