Ep.125 Nature Spirits Gone Rogue with Laurel Colless

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Hello, hello, hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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Oh, this episode is so much fun, especially if you are a parent or you, you’re a childcare or a librarian or a community center person, anybody who has children around, an auntie.

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I’m a professional aunt so I under, and a great aunt.

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So if you have children around you, you’re gonna enjoy this so much.

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But even if you don’t, really there is so much that we talk about here.

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So I talked to Laurel Collis where we’re talking about her book series which is a series of fantasy fiction books.

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I have, I have 3 out of the 4 here with me today I’m super excited about, that we talk about and go into detail and these are environmental, we call it, she says The Magic of Environmental Awareness.

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It’s a fantasy fiction series that is really connected for kids to, um, explore the idea of climate change in a safe environment, you know, battle a few monsters, you know, all that good stuff.

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And, um, I just wanna warn you that during the time of this recording, there was a massive storm that came over Laurel’s house so there is a period of time, even at the end she discovered that water had been kind of seeping in through the windows and she hadn’t noticed ’cause we were in the middle of recording.

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So there is gonna be a little period of time where there’s this extra sound in the background.

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Please just plug through it.

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It, it’s, it doesn’t last that long and the whole conversation is so engaging that I’m sure it’s gonna make it worth your while.

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So I’m not gonna hold you here any fur- any longer.

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Please go check out Episode 125: Nature Spirits Gone Rogue with Laurel Collis.

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Enjoy.

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Welcome to Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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I’m your host, Tigria Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.

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For over a decade, I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.

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In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Hello, Laurel.

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Hello, hello.

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I am so happy to finally have you in front of me.

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And, uh, I have this feeling, I already have a few notes after just our pre-discussion so I am really looking forward to getting into this conversation.

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There’s so much for us to talk about.

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But before we start, can you tell everybody who is Laurel Collis?

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Oh, hi, T- Tigrella.

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So that is, um-

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a leading question.

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I think that I, I wanna give, uh, I wanna give you just the very short answer so that we can get into our discussion.

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Um, the first thing I have to say though is also based on our pre-discussion is that I feel a little bit like an imposter here on this show because, you know, Tigrella is the real plant, you’re the real deal.

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You’re a plant whisperer.

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You, um, you’re sort of a sensitive who can go deep into nature and communicating with nature, and I’m definitely not that person.

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However, in the books that I’ve been writing, so in the last 10 years I’ve been developing a book series for middle grade kids, uh, which draws attention to nature and pollution and, uh, problems like big intractable, big, big intractable problems like the climate crisis.

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Uh, I’ve, I’ve got developed characters that have these abilities.

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So I’m looking forward to chatting with you today, um, and-

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maybe even getting a lesson, uh, on how I can, uh, develop these characters and- I love it.

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Oh, I love it.

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So thanks for having me.

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That’s so-

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that’s so great.

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I’m actually really excited to talk about these books.

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So for those of you that are on video, look, look, there’s, I have 3 of them.

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There’s actually 4, but I have- Oh.

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I have 3.

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They’re like my babies.

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And I, I was so excited when they arrived.

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Yeah.

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Um, uh, this has been one of the highlights of doing these podcasts is like people are sending me their books and they’re just so great.

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I was like, “I wanted books like this when I was that age.”

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You know?

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So I’m enjoying reading them and, you know, I’m not even your demographic.

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Oh, thank you for saying that.

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So l- let’s- Yeah.

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In fact, actually, I do try and channel my 11-year-old self when I’m, when I’m, in the, during the creative process.

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I think that that- So I’m trying to write books that my 11-year-old self would have loved to have read and been to books.

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And I think that that’s what we need right now because I think that there are so many people out there that are writing kind of in the doom-and-gloom sort of perspective when we’re talking about climate change and such.

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And it was delightful, I had recently, uh- That’s true.

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Bridget Sherville on the podcast and we were talking about parenting- Right.

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for climate change but, you know, she took a very literal approach.

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You know, she’s working with her daughter and trying to get her daughter to be educated and to be curious and to be solutions-driven.

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And so her book really is about showing parents how to help your children navigate these really confusing conversations without just telling them, “Hey, we screwed up the planet and, uh, you guys have to fix it.”

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Co- which would be horrible to do.

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So once they- Hear, hear.

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Yeah, and I think, so can I just say I think what she’s doing is very important as well, and that is kind of how I started because I began with this sort of eco-club.

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I started volunteering at my own children’s schools and my own children then were the target age group, nine and 12.

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They’re now 19-

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and 21, so that’s how long I’ve been doing this.

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But I began by going, I thought, “I’ve got to do something, um, uh, with the younger generation.”

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I’d been working in the, in corporate, the corporate world with the grownups on climate change and things were moving way too slowly.

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So I went into schools and I started trying to teach-

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things like global warming, and we’re doing things like putting blankets over trees and trying to ex- explain what was happening with the greenhouse effect and talking about deforestation.

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And my own daughter was crying at bedtime worrying about the trees in the Amazon.

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So I saw all that, and I also remember a parent coming to talk to me, a dad actually, and saying, you know, “Do- do you really think we should be telling the kids this kind of

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I mean, should we be telling them-” Right.

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about the climate crisis?”

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Um, and- and that was a good question.

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I still don’t have a good answer for it.

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Uh, but what I started to find, to your point, is that the storytelling that we did in the clubs in these kind of school, um, modules that we made that we took into classrooms, uh, the storytelling was what resonated the most, which made me start to think, you know, I’m gonna go back into my, uh, I don’t know-

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just retreat back and- Right.

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rethink this and start to think about stories.

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And that’s how I started developing the characters.

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Oh, I like that.

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Yeah, and I think that, you know, storytelling is the best way into somebody.

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I always y- say, you know, that, uh, it’s

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And the reason I talk to artists, and I love talking to all kinds of different artists, musicians, and writers, and- and painters, and everything, because it’s so much easier for us to allow an artist into our home than it is a scientist.

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Like, we’re just going to, you know

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Th- that comes into the heart.

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You- you start to feel into it.

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You start to understand.

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But you picked a very specific genre ’cause you went down the idea of a fantasy fiction, which I am appreciative of, because I like fantasy fiction a lot.

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So why fantasy fiction?

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Of all the different sort of fiction, why- why go that direction?

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Right.

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Yeah, well, first of all, to your point, I- I- I, uh, talk about storytelling as kind of putting down the drawbridge to let the kids into the castle.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, it’s

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I’m asked this a lot, and I get a lot of pushback because people say, “Okay, you’re drawing attention or you’re trying to

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Your goal, your purpose of the books is to raise awareness of the climate crisis, which is a very real, tangible, dangerous thing, which is happening in today’s world.”

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“Why would you, um, why would you sort of clothe it in this fant- with these fantasy i- elements?”

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And, um, actually, it wasn’t a

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It wasn’t ex- it didn’t

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It took me a while.

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Let’s just say it took me a while to figure out that I was gonna go with this genre.

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But think about it, Tigrilla.

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What would you do if you sat down and said, “I want to make a story for kids, 9 to 11-year-olds, and I want climate change or extreme weather to be my villain?”

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‘Cause that was sort of the- Right.

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starting point.

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And it’s like

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And finally, you know, I- I- How do I do that?

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I thought long and hard and I experimented.

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And ultimately, I’m like, “I’ve got to create a monster.

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I’ve got to hit- hit them through the imagination.”

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It- it’s not gonna work- Right.

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Anything literal is not gonna work.

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However, when people ask me about my worldbuilding, I say, “No, no, no, no, we’re not worldbuilding here.”

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So the stories take place admittedly in a kind of magical setting.

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It’s an eco-school shrouded in mist, a kind of, um, Avalon off the north coast of England, very secretive.

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And it’s, uh, the- the world’s top eco-students, so kids from everywhere, um, who- who get invited to this school.

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I love that.

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I want to be an eco student.

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Uh, but- but the point I- I- I need to make is that the school and the action and the characters are all a version of today’s world.

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So it’s not like I’m giving the reader a free pass and saying, “No, this is some world that I created, which is over there with all these problems that, by the way-” Right.

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“

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you’re going to have to fix.”

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Uh, uh, it’s, um, it’s- it’s definitely realism, but I wanted to go then with this fantastical overlay.

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So, uh, I don’t know if you’ve read any Salman Rushdie, but, uh, I mean, he is the master of this.

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I have.

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I have, a long time ago.

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Um, I haven’t read all his books, but I did his Master Class.

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Uh, books like Midnight’s Children, where he’s talking about

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He’s really dealing with something very literal, like India’s independence, but then he puts all these magical elements in which I think invite the reader to go to another level.

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And- and maybe

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So in Salman Rushdie’s Masterclass he, he said something that has stayed with me throughout the writing and that is, put it this way he said, “If you find that your carpet needs to fly, then you have to let it fly.”

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So I I’ve, I’ve been looking at, um, ways to reach my reader, um, in a way that would hit them through their imagination and would maybe draw them in, uh, but at the same time it would, would

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And maybe bring them closer to nature and make them love nature more, but at the same time, uh, raise awareness you know, we’re in crisis.

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So, I guess the short answer is sometimes fiction or fantasy fiction can be a more powerful way to tell the truth, to tell the truth about who we are as people and how we’re treating our environment and, you know, what it is we’re gonna be dealing with and so I created these monsters.

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And I’d love to talk more about the monsters.

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And I- That was a fun process but I think I’ve maybe answered your question for now.

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No.

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You, you did and we are gonna get to the monsters.

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I just wanted to say, you know, in, in the sense that you were talking about relating to fantasy fiction, I, I’ve read

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You know, I’m not one of those, like, super, super

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My, my nephew, for example, reads, like, everything and you can mention just about any book of fantasy fiction, he’s probably read it.

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How old is your nephew?

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I’ve had a few series.

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How old is your- My nephew’s actually believe it or not 38.

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He’s not gonna be my target reader.

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So he’s not even a kid.

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He’s not gonna be your target reader anymore.

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And as a matter of fact, he wasn’t a big reader.

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When he was younger, he wasn’t a reader at all and it was just an amazing thing that has happened in his- Right.

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30s that’s just bloomed into his

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Late 20s to early 30s and bloomed into it, which was interesting because I also had a period around that time in my age.

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And I, I find it interesting because going to what you were saying relating to fantasy fiction, I think about the series that I probably

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The biggest series that I ever read which was the Sword of Truth series that I can’t even remember how many books it is right now.

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And I remember that there’s one book, I think it’s like book 4 or 5, that talks about this area, that, that does have a kind of world-building sort of

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And the area that it talks about is basically communism and

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But, you know, done in this very fantasy fiction- Right.

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sort of way and I remember thinking to myself about halfway through the book going, you know, “I’m Cuban.

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I grew up listening to things around communism and I’ve always had lots of different ideas about communism, but this was probably the best, like, practical implications in both its beauty and the horrors of communism that you could ever have written.”

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Like if I would’ve written some kind of

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If I would’ve read a regular book that talked about communism was this, this and this- Right.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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or even the conversations that we had about, like, you know, things happening in our home country, it’s not still as powerful or didn’t impact me as much as reading that one book.

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That one book helped me see a series of scenarios that I would’ve never given myself the chance to see had I not been in this sort of fictionalized world.

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And while he never talked

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While the author never talks about it as if communism and no character talks about it, but by the behaviors, you’re like, “Oh, my goodness.

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This is communism.”

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Right.

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And it was wonderful to help you see it, so I, I can understand how especially in a topic a little bit as delicate as, you know, climate change- Right.

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for children which can be very traumatizing- Very.

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Yeah.

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in another way, I could see why fantasy fiction i- is probably a good genre to have.

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But I do wanna get into the monsters because the monsters, I have a few questions about.

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Um, but tell me, you know, you, you, you created these monsters that come from probably what most of us fear relating to the climate.

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Can you just help us- Yeah.

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better understand, like- It’s actually pretty simple.

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What is the genesis- I’ve created- Yeah.

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Uh, sorry, we’ve got a thunderstorm going on here.

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so it’s probably going to get loud.

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Oh, we can’t hear it so we’re fine.

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I don’t know if you can hear the lightning now.

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* Oh, now I heard it.

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That’s cool.

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Yeah, so the, the weather is fighting back or joining the conversation.

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But, um, so what I did was

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Uh, so let’s

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So I was living in Greece and I, I was, uh, learning the language and, uh, I came across the word anthropos which is the word for humankind and I thought what if I take the stem of that- Mm-hmm.

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which we see in words like anthropology and anthropogenic climate change, things like that.

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I took anthrop- Right.

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and I joined it together with the English word hog which

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And again, I would not like

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I, I always clarify, no offense to pigs at all, uh, but hog is a kind of-

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term that we use to denote or to connotate on overconsumption or taking more than we need.

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So I developed these anthrops and built a whole compendium of them and in a way I, I think you would probably relate, I see them as nature spirits gone rogue.

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They birthed out of, they birthed out of garbage dumps, landfills, polluted areas, uh, in places where oil or gold or important things have been taken out of Earth and empty spaces have been left, they can grow up as of these kind of, uh, well, basically scary monsters.

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And under the seabed, plastic pollution.

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Uh, in the most recent book, Knights Unite, the

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but these monsters show up in the action as extreme weather events, so they’re very dangerous and of course, you know, they have their own personalities.

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There’s a little bit of Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein because in many ways, they didn’t ask to be born, and quite often, they’re quite sort of junior monsters, and there are ways that the children, uh, can reach, reach out to the monsters and, uh, anthrops and, uh, communicate with them, and it’s not all just, you know, humans fighting monsters.

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Um, there’s an element of need for mutual understanding as well.

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So, you know, I can play around with a lot of different things, uh, to do with that.

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But yeah, basically, uh, in book 2, Renegale Tales, which you held up, these are wind monsters, so they can destroy a whole town.

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These large renegales, they’re called, that’s a play with renegade and gale.

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So these are renegales and

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But you know, there’s also this, the action begins with these 3 baby renegales that are, are needing to be destroyed, because they’re going to grow up into large sort of, uh, destructive forces that humans are going to have to contend with.

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Uh, so you know, I, I play with sympathy as well.

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I w- I was just gonna ask you, like, going into this, because I know that for example, you were telling me that your main character, right, is a tree speaker, right, has this gift of being able to communicate with plants, and obviously when we look at climate change and we look at what’s happening, you know, there’s so many aspects of this that, of course, affect the plant world directly.

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But at the same time, yes, plants kill, without any doubt, plants definitely kill, but plants also attempt to adapt, to help adapt to the environment- Right, right.

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to move things around.

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So, I’m just curious as to, as you were thinking about, okay, we have

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Okay, we always have the

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We have this monster, we have, you know, the, the kids who are learning and are dealing with, uh, these monsters.

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Is the answer

219
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Is there a way for them to unravel the ma- you know, the nature spirit within, let’s just say it that way, or is it always kind of like

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What was your thinking there of, how do I do this?

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Do I want them to just kill the monster or do I need them to figure out how to unravel into a climate human situation that makes sense, like, that, that feels, you know, like a, like a mutualism?

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Like, where, where were you

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When you’re thinking about writing these, where are you trying to go, what is the lesson you’re trying to give relating to these climate pieces that, in so many cases, are being exasperated by humans themselves?

224
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So the idea that humans have to go off and kill these creatures that have been created- Yeah.

225
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Yeah.

226
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by humans to begin with feels like this

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I can see the moral dilemma in it.

228
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Yeah, yeah, I’m very sensitive to that.

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And of course, I have actual sort of pure nature spirits who are also given a voice, and in, in book one, Eye of the Storm Lord, where they end up

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They do end up fighting a storm lord who’s fairly ruthless, uh, but they turn him also in a certain way.

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But in that, in that story, there are also, uh, these no- earth gnomes who are very knowledgeable and quite rude to the children.

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And, uh, one of the main characters who’s very, uh, I would say square and very scientific and doesn’t believe in anything he can’t see, so he’s in a way like a, the antithesis of Peter, who’s my main protagonist who’s training to be a tree speaker.

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So this character actually ends up meeting

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Right.

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And he loves science and excels at science, but he ends up meeting, after falling into a hole, it’s a long story, he meets an earth gnome who’s extremely rude to him and tells him that human beings are a waste of time and that all they do is put waste into Earth and they spend all their time cleaning it up, and when they’re not putting things into Earth, they’re busy taking things out of Earth and destroying it that way, and, uh, you know, so they have- He’s not wrong.

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an altercation and nature gets a voice.

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uh, but he sort of says, “I shouldn’t even be able to see you because it’s not science, it’s not scientifically possible.”

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And the- and this gnome, who’s got a great personality and he stays in, in the action through to the end, uh, he says, you know, “Maybe your science hasn’t caught up with ours yet.”

239
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So I’m very mindful that in the framework of the books, everything’s able to be explained within the science that

240
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Well, I mean for example, the school obviously.

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The school is run by, uh, a big organization called GAIA.

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That’s the acronym.

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The Global Advanced Intelligence Agency.

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And this is a, this is, maybe I’m getting closer to answering your question because this is a kind of Pentagon-style masculine military high-tech, uh, global, uh, foundation, but it’s also, uh, they take their intelligence from everywhere.

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So they can take their intelligence from, uh, human, human science, but also from, uh, for example, there’s one stone called Living Stone who is actually like a very important spokesperson for nature with these kind of macho guys.

246
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So I’ve got these cowboy scientist type mentors for the children who will also talk to a passing frog or, you know, want to hear from- Right.

247
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wanna hear what the trees think, and include in The Council of 12, include nature spirits from the 4 elements, but also from the trees.

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So I’m- I’m trying to show that we’re all one and that, that the children in solving problems are not working against nature, they’re working with nature, and that, you know, we’re all part of the solution.

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And- and then to make it fun.

250
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So there’s gonna be- – Right.

251
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th- first and foremost I’m trying to write- It’s gotta be fun.

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um, you know, a page-turning thriller for kids.

253
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So we need a, we’ve got a, a story- Right.

254
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that’s, you know, ripping along, uh, but at the same time, I- I wanna pay a lot of attention to- to these broader themes.

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So in the book, uh, which actually, Knights Unite, which is the one that has recently been published and which won the, if I can have a little shout out for myself, but, uh, was recognized on Earth Day, uh, by the US Green Earth Book Awards as recommended reading for elementary schools.

256
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So in Knights Unite- Yes.

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yeah, I was really thrilled because it was a kind of, um, I don’t know, a verification for me that I’m on the right track.

258
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Um, so in that book, one of the characters who actually has eco-anxiety, has been suffering from eco-anxiety and is very sensitive, uh, she ends up saving the day at the end with this large sea beast that ends up getting into the assembly hall.

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And she proposes that they all, and there’s 100 kids there, she proposes when they’re getting ready to kill this monster after, you can imagine a lot of, um, uh, a lot of false conclusions and dark nights at the soul and all the things that go into the adventure series, uh, she proposes they give the monster a hug, and they put their hands on the shoulders and they connect with, with this sea beast who after all, you know, is still part

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of the biosphere and part of everything that, you know- Right.

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we’ve collectively made.

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I- I- I, uh, I’m at risk of sort of starting to ramble because there are so many different stories and different elements-.

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but, you know, as you can hear, I’m passionate about them.

264
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Well, I- And also- I- I totally hear it.

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giving nature a voice is very, very important.

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Yeah.

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And I think that this is kind of I, um, so I have this, this overall struggle that the more especially I work, you know, creating ecosystems, the h- the, the more the struggle begins.

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Um, the, excuse me, the more the struggle- Mm-hmm.

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gets bigger because when you work with an ecosystem, when you think about the things at an ecosystem level, doesn’t matter what kind of ecosystem, big, small, like planetary versus, you know, just one little habitat around you, whether I’m talking about my house as an ecosystem or, you know, the, the beautiful river and all the plants around the river system that I’m seeing, but when you start to think in those terms, you realize that, um, to a certain extent, everything has a place.

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You know, when there are invasives or there are certain kinds of, for example- Uh-huh.

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plants that come into and can then invade an area because there is no natural antithesis or like natural, uh, antagonist that comes in and that can control and so it really is about an imbalance that gets created- Sure.

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and that creates all the different things.

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But when the ecosystem then refinds its balance, which usually over time an ecosystem does find that, there is an equilibrium that gets created and, you know, there’s moments of like, you know, some, some species that gets high- that takes, starts to take up too much space and then it takes a while for the overall ecosystem to adapt- Right.

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and all these different elements.

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And yet, our storytelling tends to be understandably so very focused on, you know, the Disney myth, the good versus evil type of perspective.

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The idea that there are these people or-

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beings of any sort that are inherently good and those that are inherently bad.

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We’re starting to see the ti- the tide change on that.

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We are starting to see much, much more s- many more storylines that shows that sometimes it’s about a choice and the choice can have its elements and depends on who the perceiver is of the choice as to whether or not that choice is good versus bad.

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But how will you, for example, as you’re trying to think about it, a story that is based and rooted in nature, that is based and rooted in helping children look at the big picture and start to understand that our world is made up of all of these different types of beings and all these different kind of ecosystems that are all interacting with one another, and that some are going to take precedence and some are not?

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Um, and, and I think this goes back to the question you were, you know, that I had asked you in our first, first conversation about kind of anthropomorphizing too much and making it seem as if there was, like, this absolute evil in these monsters.

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How do you reconcile that?

283
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Like, what is your thought process?

284
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Not so much of, like, what did you write about, but, like, what is your thought process in how do I explain and how

285
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What, what do is the message?

286
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Is the message that there is absolute good and evil or that there are absolute weather systems that, or, or systems of the, of the ecology that are inherently just 100% bad and therefore should just be 86ed anytime we see them or is there more of a nuance to it?

287
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And how do you reconcile that ’cause I can just imagine that that must be difficult- Oh, yeah.

288
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to write, especially in a story, in a fantasy where you have the ability to do just about whatever you want.

289
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Okay, so that’s a big question.

290
00:27:33,456.99999999976717 –> 00:27:35,728
Um, I guess the- Yeah.

291
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Well, the way I would start is by, uh, repeating what I told you earlier about the name of the just kind of overarching group that, uh, is basically running the school at this secret island.

292
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Um, and they’re a kind of Camelots in a way, a kind of a utopian group.

293
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They’re called Gaia.

294
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So just by calling them Gaia and having an effective acronym, uh, and they’re militaristic, but as I said, they’re also extremely sensitive and taking all their intelligence from all available sources.

295
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So by giving them the name Gaia, it’s already a nod to, you know, the goddess Gaia, the Greek goddess who we can see as, you know, representing Mother Earth or the biosphere and the interconnectedness of all life.

296
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So I’m already giving a nod to that just with, you know, my nomenclature and it’s very- Right.

297
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very important to me.

298
00:28:33,178 –> 00:28:53,828
Uh, I, I did a lot of research before I started, um, talking to people like you and also reading books, uh, by, uh, by sensitives is maybe the right word, uh, people who are engaged in communicating with nature spirits and talking to or going deeper into, uh, the elemental kingdom.

299
00:28:53,828 –> 00:28:57,199.99999999976717
Uh, so I’ve read right through, uh, a lot of material.

300
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Um, so I mentioned Mary, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, one of the novels that had

301
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a gothic novel from a long time ago, but which is still relevant today.

302
00:29:07,998 –> 00:29:23,518
Um, you know, I think a lot about Victor Frankenstein and the monster he created and what a terrible life this monster ended up having, you know, with, with unable to connect with, with humans and his own creator.

303
00:29:23,518 –> 00:29:28,617
And if we think about mythology, say the Greek mythology, you also have

304
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I’ve drawn a lot from, uh, biblical mythology, so the, the current book which has just come out, that beast is a kind of le- biblical Leviathan style monster.

305
00:29:40,498 –> 00:29:53,367
Uh, at the same time, it’s very close to the Greek, uh, the Charybdis that chases Odysseus and the sailors and, you know, swallows up seawater and spews it out on the ships.

306
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So this, this sea beast that comes into Assembly brings the seawater which is plastic-laden and swallows that up and spews it out onto the children.

307
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So I’m very sympathetic and I’m, you know, on the one hand, I’m employ- applauding this monster and one of my characters, um, who’s a very kind of correct, uh, Reva, she says, “You know, it’s just giving

308
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The monster is just giving us back our junk and our, you know, our waste.”

309
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if you think of say, like the Minotaur in the, in the Greek mythology in Knossos, the King Minos.

310
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The King Minos- Poor

311
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Poor Arria.

312
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This poor Minotaur- I know.

313
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who didn’t do anything wrong other than his mom fell in love with one of the bulls.

314
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Yeah.

315
00:30:57,530 –> 00:30:59,030
Like seriously so unfair.

316
00:30:59,030 –> 00:31:11,290
Yeah and then the other angle T-Gorilla is that the king is just happily sacrificing, I don’t know, 7, 7 maidens and 7 small boys from Athens or- Yeah.

317
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from wherever he brings them, I don’t remember the details, but he brings them to- Uh

318
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be sacrificed and then finally you have, um, you have this, uh

319
00:31:22,780 –> 00:31:24,200
Who is it who comes?

320
00:31:24,200 –> 00:31:25,090
Theseus.

321
00:31:25,090 –> 00:31:26,000
Theseus comes.

322
00:31:26,594 –> 00:31:32,110
Thes- Theseus and who like woos Ariadne who then lets him- Thread.

323
00:31:32,110 –> 00:31:32,950
But it was

324
00:31:32,950 –> 00:31:33,380
With the thread.

325
00:31:33,380 –> 00:31:34,942
Theseus didn’t create the problem.

326
00:31:35,540 –> 00:31:37,540
You know, just like the kids- Nope.

327
00:31:37,540 –> 00:31:44,310
in our upcoming generation who I’m writing to, it’s not them, as you said earlier, who created the problem, but they’re gonna come in and have to fix it.

328
00:31:44,310 –> 00:31:45,650
No, it was King Minos to kill.

329
00:31:45,650 –> 00:31:56,400
So these monsters and things that we’ve all, we’ve created, um, are very much of our own making and I’m really keen to make that clear, uh, as I, as I prepare the plots.

330
00:31:57,340 –> 00:32:10,008
I still feel like I haven’t really answered the question, but the anthropomorphizing, I mean, I have to argue for that because I’m writing for kids and, you know, I thought about it before we

331
00:32:10,008 –> 00:32:20,960
This afternoon I was thinking about it before we had our conversation, you know, what would happen if I got a tree to sort of co-author one of these novels with me?

332
00:32:20,960 –> 00:32:38,320
I mean, I, I, I’m all for giving the tree a voice, but I just feel like from what I know of tree souls or tree worlds, um, they’re working in a different time span or I’m assuming that they have to work in a different, um, cons- in different time construct.

333
00:32:38,320 –> 00:32:43,670
And, uh, kids on the other hand, I mean, and human beings in general, there are

334
00:32:43,670 –> 00:32:55,210
Kids especially, they’re working in this immediacy of time so I need books that, uh, draw them in, keep very fast paced, there’s lots of things happening.

335
00:32:55,210 –> 00:32:58,960
So a tree writing a book, I mean, that could take eons.

336
00:32:58,960 –> 00:33:01,920
A tree doesn’t have that

337
00:33:01,920 –> 00:33:04,060
Well there are, I mean, there are definitely people

338
00:33:04,060 –> 00:33:09,450
There was just an event actually happening, what was it, last week, the last, over the last few weeks in, in Finland- Really?

339
00:33:09,450 –> 00:33:18,590
that was all about like and, yeah, and, and it was a group that were doing all kinds of like co-authoring with nature and stuff like that.

340
00:33:18,590 –> 00:33:19,410
But I do think that

341
00:33:19,410 –> 00:33:21,430
I think the hardest part that we

342
00:33:21,430 –> 00:33:30,769
I, I know that the part that I struggle with the most is ta- y- your, your story of Ariadne and Theseus and the Minotaur is a great one, especially ’cause it’s one that I know.

343
00:33:30,769 –> 00:33:31,639.9999999997672
Most people know.

344
00:33:31,639.9999999997672 –> 00:33:32,350
Oh, right.

345
00:33:32,350 –> 00:33:32,850
Are you an actress?

346
00:33:32,850 –> 00:33:35,190
I did a play many, many years ago where I played- Good.

347
00:33:35,190 –> 00:33:41,020
I mean, you really come across as if you were raised right on- I was a long time ago and I played- Thank you.

348
00:33:41,020 –> 00:33:50,820
A- and I played Ariadne in a modern version, a girl who was named Ariadne and whose parents had raised her with all of the mythology relating- Right.

349
00:33:50,820 –> 00:34:01,210
to Ariadne and it tells, you know, the whole story of her finding, uh, the vase and, you know, which, which people wanna call the, the Pandora’s Box and she’s like, “It’s not a box, it’s a vase.”

350
00:34:01,210 –> 00:34:08,560
And the fact that there’s hope inside, but it does release all of the atrocities of the world, at the bottom there’s hope.

351
00:34:08,560 –> 00:34:12,989.9999999997672
But this whole concept of the Minotaur is like, you know, we, we so easily

352
00:34:12,989.9999999997672 –> 00:34:17,760.0000000002328
and I think that this is in some ways an answer to my own question is- Oh, good.

353
00:34:17,760.0000000002328 –> 00:34:25,560
All of these, all of these monsters, you know, in stories, like for example, the Minotaur, it’s not the Minotaur, right?

354
00:34:25,560 –> 00:34:41,420
Ultimately when you go and you unravel, we’re talking about jealousy and divinities who get upset because, you know, you have, um, uh, the, the, um, oh my God, it’s not Poseidon, it’s, uh, the, the bull belonged to- Oh.

355
00:34:41,420 –> 00:34:48,949.9999999997672
I can’t remember who right now because the divinity’s not coming into my mind and it’ll come to me, but then, you know, to have her copulate, so Daedalus- Right.

356
00:34:48,949.9999999997672 –> 00:35:00,130
who helps us copulate with the, the actual, uh, bull ’cause it’s the beautiful white bull and all these things and the freaking divinity who gets pissed off and is the one that tells, you know

357
00:35:00,130 –> 00:35:12,180
And it goes down all these paths and, and I think what we forget in a lot of these stories is that that monster, which is the monster of Minotaur, was made up of the decisions of a whole series- Right.

358
00:35:12,180 –> 00:35:13,008
of different people.

359
00:35:13,870 –> 00:35:33,170
And I think that in some ways what our, what our stories are sort of trying to, like, like you had said of the m- the sea monster that just, you know, passes or vomits up the s- the plastic, it d- if it would have just been water it would be one thing, but it’s plastic because we made a whole heck of a lot of decisions.

360
00:35:33,170 –> 00:35:57,220.00000000046566
And I think that the more we can understand that there is no one monster, there is a series of decisions that ends up creating the monster, and the monster is oftentimes just as big of a victim as, you know, a- as the person who’s subjected to the monster’s ill will.

361
00:35:57,220.00000000046566 –> 00:36:04,880
And I think that this is the difficulty and also the excitement right now in our storytelling and stories like yours that allow us to-

362
00:36:05,666 –> 00:36:13,872
just kind of look at this whole climate world through the eyes of story, which I think for a lot of people, they weren’t able to do that.

363
00:36:14,844 –> 00:36:20,154
And when you look at it through story, you’re able to give yourself space and time to dissect it in different ways.

364
00:36:20,154 –> 00:36:21,474
And it’s like, “Oh, wait a minute.

365
00:36:21,474 –> 00:36:25,554
If the water didn’t have plastic in it, then, you know, this, we

366
00:36:25,554 –> 00:36:27,334
It wouldn’t be raining down plastic.”

367
00:36:27,334 –> 00:36:32,573
So then that monster’s effect would be very different, and would we still think of this as

368
00:36:32,573 –> 00:36:35,834
You know, like it starts to, it starts to- Mm-hmm.

369
00:36:35,834 –> 00:36:41,433
open up a series of other kinds of conversations- Right.

370
00:36:41,433 –> 00:37:07,474
that we can have in a fantasy world, as you said, but that we can’t necessarily have in the, a straight-up non-fiction type, where in a non-fiction, when you say it, it doesn’t have as much of an impact because it’s too hard to conceive that there’s a corporation over here, but then there’s individual use over there, and then there’s government regulation over there, and then there’s this, and then there’s that.

371
00:37:07,474 –> 00:37:11,864
And it’s very hard for us to hold all of that because it’s almost too real.

372
00:37:11,864 –> 00:37:14,354
It’s too close, where I think we can get- Right.

373
00:37:14,354 –> 00:37:16,154
Although I do have an element of that.

374
00:37:16,154 –> 00:37:23,833
I mean, there are some bad corporations that the kids are doing, um, this, uh, marine detective work.

375
00:37:23,833 –> 00:37:31,854
So when they’re collecting trash, they’re actually, uh, looking at the trash and tracing it here and there and using technologies and, uh

376
00:37:31,854 –> 00:37:36,094
But it’s not, you know, sort of the average oil company or extraction company.

377
00:37:36,094 –> 00:37:40,702
It’s more, uh, these big businesses which are anthrok handlers.

378
00:37:41,224 –> 00:37:49,438
So there’s this group of anthrok handlers that u- can actually use the monsters for their own destructive purposes and they’ve learnt to communicate them.

379
00:37:50,024 –> 00:37:53,734
These are sort of in the grownup world, but the kids are, are aware of that.

380
00:37:53,734 –> 00:37:54,083
Right.

381
00:37:54,083 –> 00:37:55,344
So I’m, you know, there’s a

382
00:37:55,344 –> 00:38:04,054
I’m definitely trying to have this realistic today’s world, version of today’s world with a fantastical overlay, and, um, I think it works actually, yeah.

383
00:38:04,054 –> 00:38:07,063
Yeah, and I think the fact’s so important for people to have.

384
00:38:07,063 –> 00:38:25,544
Yeah, a- a- and it, and it goes, you know, it goes into a few different things that, um, I think is really helpful for helping us reignite the idea of reading, helping us stimulate the imagination again.

385
00:38:25,544 –> 00:38:36,462.99999999953434
Because as we’ve talked about today in, in our society, you know, with the phone-based society and with everything being in small chunks, the whole idea of

386
00:38:36,462.99999999953434 –> 00:38:39,774
I, I actually just, I was telling you that, um, I kinda got into

387
00:38:39,774 –> 00:38:41,394
I went into overload the other day.

388
00:38:41,394 –> 00:38:45,533
You know, even I have my moments, and so I decided it was time for me to take my rest.

389
00:38:45,533 –> 00:38:51,854.0000000004657
As a matter of fact, we’re, we’re recording this on a Monday, and this last weekend, I pretty much did nothing but read.

390
00:38:51,854.0000000004657 –> 00:38:53,794
And I was reading pure fiction- Good.

391
00:38:53,794 –> 00:39:13,014
like pure fun, um, and, and, and that reading, I, as I was reading through this fiction, this, um, science fiction book in particular, it was so much fun to once again create the story world so much that the book, the book that I was reading has a movie out.

392
00:39:13,014 –> 00:39:15,533
And after I finished the book, I was like, “Oh, you know what?

393
00:39:15,533 –> 00:39:17,968
I’m gonna watch the movie now,” ’cause I had never seen the movie.

394
00:39:18,964 –> 00:39:20,413.99999999953434
And I was

395
00:39:20,413.99999999953434 –> 00:39:22,413.99999999953434
M- my n- nephew had given me the book.

396
00:39:22,413.99999999953434 –> 00:39:25,733
So I’m like writing to my nephew and I’m like, “This is such crap-” I, uh, yeah, I was just disappointed.

397
00:39:25,733 –> 00:39:25,774
Yeah, I- “

398
00:39:25,774 –> 00:39:27,634
like, the, the movie.”

399
00:39:27,634 –> 00:39:28,093
Yeah, yeah.

400
00:39:28,093 –> 00:39:31,752
Of course you were, and I was like, because you’ve built this rich

401
00:39:31,752 –> 00:39:43,834
Besides the fact that they totally butchered it, like there are some, some movies that, that do a book s- service and like help, but they totally butchered it, and I was like, there is nothing like reading and allowing your- Right.

402
00:39:43,834 –> 00:39:49,533
you know, your creative juices to like picture what the people look like and give them- Yeah.

403
00:39:49,533 –> 00:39:55,324
that world and really build out all the little details that maybe the book just highlights.

404
00:39:55,324 –> 00:39:55,374
Right.

405
00:39:55,374 –> 00:40:02,233
And then you yourself give yourself, and then, you know, you pause in between chapters and you think about- And you replay things in your head.

406
00:40:02,233 –> 00:40:03,033
like when did that happen and- Yeah.

407
00:40:03,033 –> 00:40:07,044
and you replay things in your head, and I’m just like, “Wow.”

408
00:40:07,044 –> 00:40:08,774
For the whole like- Exactly.

409
00:40:08,774 –> 00:40:19,464
literacy problem that we have right now where kids are really not reading, what, what a waste of like, oh, my goodness, what is gonna happen in the future when

410
00:40:19,464 –> 00:40:22,154
You know, I try to be an optimist, and I try to think, okay- Sure.

411
00:40:22,154 –> 00:40:23,154
there’s good things happening.

412
00:40:23,154 –> 00:40:24,674
But oof- Right.

413
00:40:24,674 –> 00:40:25,860
this one scares me.

414
00:40:25,860 –> 00:40:36,330
And like if they don’t have those skills, w- how are you, like as now going into the writing, and specifically for that age demographic, what are you finding around literacy and like, is

415
00:40:36,330 –> 00:40:39,970
How are you combating the whole scroll and

416
00:40:39,970 –> 00:40:41,780
You know, these are thick books- Yeah.

417
00:40:41,780 –> 00:40:48,290
which is exciting for kids that like to read but how do we get kids that don’t like to read excited about them too?

418
00:40:48,290 –> 00:40:57,440
Oh, wow, you packed a lot into that question but first of all, the way you described the reading process, uh, for any of your listeners who are parents or caregivers with kids, it’s

419
00:40:57,440 –> 00:41:06,230
Of course, it’s very important for adults but for children, I mean, that has been so well, well-presented in studies.

420
00:41:06,230 –> 00:41:16,210
But the way you described it then, ’cause something very special happens when a child opens a book and reads a story, uh, compared with streaming it on their phone or looking at it on the TV- Mm-hmm.

421
00:41:16,210 –> 00:41:18,270
because as you said, they have to

422
00:41:18,270 –> 00:41:28,790
They have to be the director and the producer, they’ve gotta imagine the characters, visualize them, imagine what everything smells like and looks like, and create the whole set in their mind.

423
00:41:28,790 –> 00:41:34,340
And that’s so good for developing their creative skills and developing obviously- Right.

424
00:41:34,340 –> 00:41:40,790
as you go along in the book, you’re developing empathy, you’re going inside a character’s head, maybe you’re feeling less lonely.

425
00:41:40,790 –> 00:41:49,392
There’s just so many positive and wonderful arguments for getting kids back to reading and it’s one of the happiest times I remember as

426
00:41:50,060 –> 00:42:03,330
If I go back to, say, 11, I mean, 9, 10, 11 years old, uh, uh, when you still believe in the magic of nature and then you read a story where you’re out in, in some kind of a world which is new to you.

427
00:42:03,330 –> 00:42:06,000
Uh, it’s, it’s just the most magical thing.

428
00:42:06,610 –> 00:42:11,530
And I haven’t, uh, answered your question about literacy but, I mean, when I saw the

429
00:42:11,530 –> 00:42:21,630
I was actually in touch with a, a sort of a friend or a, uh, a colleague, uh, at Simon & Schuster who runs the children’s program there in New York.

430
00:42:21,630 –> 00:42:32,329
And he wrote to me saying, “Who knew during the pandemic, the kids who are now reading middle grade, something went wrong and they didn’t learn to read?”

431
00:42:32,329 –> 00:42:38,240
I mean, it’s just so, it’s just such a tr- a tragedy to think.

432
00:42:38,240 –> 00:42:50,240
Um, and there are studies from 2024 that I’ve recently looked at, th- the so-called report card for the US on reading and it’s really sobering.

433
00:42:50,240 –> 00:43:06,530
Uh, one statistic that jumped out at me that I’ve committed to memory is among 4th graders in the US, 40% are reading below, uh, standard reading levels so, or basic reading proficiency- That’s crazy.

434
00:43:06,530 –> 00:43:07,632
I think is the way it put.

435
00:43:08,360 –> 00:43:11,250
Uh, and then even, even more disappointing- That’s so-

436
00:43:11,250 –> 00:43:22,760
maybe, at least for me because I studied literature at university and I’ve always loved, loved books, uh, even more disappointing is that children are not reading for fun.

437
00:43:22,760 –> 00:43:30,040
So those that are still reading, uh, any spare time they’ve got, straight to the phone or to, to a device.

438
00:43:30,040 –> 00:43:34,790
Uh, and one, one other statistic that I wrote, I jotted down, 30

439
00:43:34,790 –> 00:43:35,696
Uh, this was actually

440
00:43:36,340 –> 00:43:51,024
Yeah, this was a US statistic because obviously the problem is not particular for the US but, uh, 39% of 9yearolds, uh, and just 17% of 13-year-olds say they read a book for enjoyment.

441
00:43:51,980 –> 00:43:53,392
Isn’t that so sad?

442
00:43:55,140 –> 00:43:56,109
It is sad.

443
00:43:56,109 –> 00:43:56,190
Yeah.

444
00:43:56,190 –> 00:43:59,600
It’s sad and it’s sad because we do have s-

445
00:43:59,600 –> 00:44:05,950
Like if you were to talk to me about the fact that the books don’t exist, it’d be one thing but the books- Right.

446
00:44:05,950 –> 00:44:08,630
They’re all over the place- More and more.

447
00:44:08,630 –> 00:44:19,010
there’s so many opport- even, and there’s so many opportunities, like I live in Italy but I also spend a lot of time obviously in the US because I, I visit my family and stuff like that, so I have my library card.

448
00:44:19,010 –> 00:44:23,310
So the other day in the, the latest book of the Plant Wisdom Book Club- Yep.

449
00:44:23,310 –> 00:44:23,350
Yeah.

450
00:44:23,350 –> 00:44:40,880
so in the book club that we have, the, we’re, we’re, we just voted in because when we’re recording this, we just voted in our new book and it’s, it’s If Women We- uh, If Women Rose Rooted by Sharon Blackie and it just so happens that I can’t get the e-book version for it.

451
00:44:40,880 –> 00:44:40,890
No.

452
00:44:40,890 –> 00:44:43,330
So I was like, “Oh my goodness, what am I gonna do?”

453
00:44:43,330 –> 00:44:47,640
So then I was go- I was looking at the audiobook and for a second I said, “You know what?

454
00:44:47,640 –> 00:44:48,710
It’s been a long time.

455
00:44:48,710 –> 00:44:52,850
I’m gonna log in to my local library from the United States.”

456
00:44:52,850 –> 00:44:54,340
Because I have my library card- Yeah.

457
00:44:54,340 –> 00:45:00,710
because the last, like a year ago when I was there, I specifically went to the library to get a new library card- Right.

458
00:45:00,710 –> 00:45:05,776
because my mother reads a lot and, and so I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna just go get a library card.”

459
00:45:06,529.9999999995343 –> 00:45:10,860
So I logged in and they have the audiobook- Yes.

460
00:45:10,860 –> 00:45:11,710
version and I was like

461
00:45:11,710 –> 00:45:12,580
So exactly, and I had-

462
00:45:12,580 –> 00:45:18,130
to put it on hold because there’s somebody who’s, has it checked out but in the meantime, I was like, “You know what?

463
00:45:18,130 –> 00:45:19,450
There’s a bunch of books”

464
00:45:19,450 –> 00:45:21,930
Because our book club, you know, there’s so many books.

465
00:45:21,930 –> 00:45:29,010
I was like, “I wonder if any other books from the book club are in the library like in an e-book or an audio version.”

466
00:45:29,010 –> 00:45:34,750
And sure enough, so now I’m listening to like s- you know, another book on e-book, on, on audiobook.

467
00:45:34,750 –> 00:45:40,440
I’m so excited to think, “Oh my goodness, I could just check things out from the library too.”

468
00:45:40,440 –> 00:45:43,710
So again, it’s not like we don’t have

469
00:45:43,710 –> 00:45:50,698
Yes, of course, there always are the exceptions but a lot of these kids if they’re scrolling, it’s because they don’t have access-

470
00:45:50,698 –> 00:45:52,108
to, you know

471
00:45:52,108 –> 00:45:53,868
Or it’s not because of that, because they do.

472
00:45:53,868 –> 00:45:55,298
They can go to the library.

473
00:45:55,298 –> 00:46:02,068
There are so many school programs, homeschool programs, after-school programs, like lots that offer you books.

474
00:46:02,068 –> 00:46:03,018
But it’s

475
00:46:03,018 –> 00:46:11,958
When we were kids, you know, of course, I went to a restaurant with my parents and they didn’t hand me an iPad or they didn’t hand me a phone.

476
00:46:11,958 –> 00:46:17,378
They handed me, you know, like the little games that we had on our napkins or I brought a book with me.

477
00:46:17,378 –> 00:46:20,464
And I spent years carrying a book always in my backpack.

478
00:46:21,28.00000000046566 –> 00:46:21,078
Oh, that’s lovely.

479
00:46:21,078 –> 00:46:25,348
And, and, and it’s, it’s the way that we used to, you know

480
00:46:25,348 –> 00:46:26,258
That, that parents

481
00:46:26,258 –> 00:46:28,548
And I’ve seen parents that still do it today.

482
00:46:28,548 –> 00:46:29,318
I was l-

483
00:46:29,318 –> 00:46:29,717
So lovely.

484
00:46:29,717 –> 00:46:38,778.0000000004657
Right before we got on this call, I had gone to, um, the Dominik Raya which is, uh, an area that we have here that has lots of shops and a welcome office and stuff like that.

485
00:46:38,778.0000000004657 –> 00:46:46,288
And I was sitting outside with some guests and I was delighted to see a young boy who was probably, I don’t know- Right.

486
00:46:46,288 –> 00:46:50,758
16 or 15, maybe 16, sitting there with

487
00:46:50,758 –> 00:46:51,958
Yes, he had his phone- Oh.

488
00:46:51,958 –> 00:46:54,138
but he also had a massive book.

489
00:46:54,138 –> 00:46:57,678
And I had seen him for the last few days and he was just sitting there.

490
00:46:57,678 –> 00:46:57,998
Like in progress?

491
00:46:57,998 –> 00:46:58,338
Uh, reading.

492
00:46:58,338 –> 00:46:59,418
I’m guessing his par-

493
00:46:59,418 –> 00:47:02,388
Yeah, his parents, uh, must be doing something but he’s sitting there reading a book.

494
00:47:02,388 –> 00:47:02,398
Yeah.

495
00:47:02,398 –> 00:47:02,538
Yeah.

496
00:47:02,538 –> 00:47:03,262
And I was like, “There you

497
00:47:03,968 –> 00:47:03,978
Yeah.

498
00:47:03,978 –> 00:47:05,638
I was like sending him lots of good energy.

499
00:47:05,638 –> 00:47:07,478
I was like that type of thing.

500
00:47:07,478 –> 00:47:22,818
Because similar to what I say about going outside in gener- general, right, you know, the whole, the fact that we have to encourage, uh, our children to connect more to nature because that disconnect is getting farther and farther and that creates a void.

501
00:47:22,818 –> 00:47:23,378
And I

502
00:47:23,378 –> 00:47:23,598
That

503
00:47:23,598 –> 00:47:39,688
It’s another reason why I do love that the protagonist that you have in the book, you know, who’s here he is here he is in this, like, secret organi- it’s a secret school, he’s thinking about it eco-consciously, and what’s the gift that he has and that he’s developing?

504
00:47:39,688 –> 00:47:45,358
Plant communication, because it’s like let’s connect all these dots together, right?

505
00:47:45,358 –> 00:47:50,118
That imagination, that stepping outside of the norm, that

506
00:47:50,118 –> 00:47:57,458
The, the scrolling only gives you stuff that is, I don’t know, w- done in a kind of 2D sort of way.

507
00:47:57,458 –> 00:48:00,357
The 3D way is about getting out and doing it yourself.

508
00:48:00,357 –> 00:48:07,438
Reading a book, letting your imagination take you there, going off and talking to the plant nearby and being like, “Well, if he can do it, maybe I can do it.

509
00:48:07,438 –> 00:48:09,568
Let me go and try,” type of thing.

510
00:48:09,568 –> 00:48:10,388
So I just

511
00:48:10,388 –> 00:48:11,098
I really

512
00:48:11,098 –> 00:48:16,768
What was it that made you want to give this main character that gift?

513
00:48:16,768 –> 00:48:17,938
Why, why plant communication?

514
00:48:17,938 –> 00:48:27,077
Oh, well, I mean, I think I’ve covered it quite well that I really wanted to have this whole, this whole interconnectedness with nature in this, in the stories.

515
00:48:27,077 –> 00:48:28,278.00000000046566
And Peter

516
00:48:28,278.00000000046566 –> 00:48:30,728
A- and by the way, Peter when he’s training

517
00:48:30,728 –> 00:48:33,798
And he’s a cool, a tree speaker but he’s still training.

518
00:48:33,798 –> 00:48:35,878
He hasn’t mastered it by any stretch.

519
00:48:35,878 –> 00:48:37,648
And, and the plants-

520
00:48:37,648 –> 00:48:41,738.0000000004657
that he talks to, you know, they’re not kind of sappy and

521
00:48:41,738.0000000004657 –> 00:48:44,337.99999999953434
Oh, that was a d- that was not a deliberate play on words.

522
00:48:44,337.99999999953434 –> 00:48:46,368
But they’re kind of, um

523
00:48:46,368 –> 00:48:47,428
They’re kind of, um

524
00:48:47,428 –> 00:48:50,118
A lot of them are quite acerbic, you know.

525
00:48:50,118 –> 00:48:52,144
It’s n- it’s not easy for him.

526
00:48:53,528.0000000004657 –> 00:48:53,548
Uh

527
00:48:53,548 –> 00:48:54,622
I’ve met those.

528
00:48:55,328 –> 00:48:55,678
Yeah.

529
00:48:55,678 –> 00:48:56,218
I have met those.

530
00:48:56,218 –> 00:48:56,738.0000000004657
Also, I love that.

531
00:48:56,738.0000000004657 –> 00:49:07,216
Although, again, I’m anthropomorphizing to an extent but, you know, um, I really wanted nature to have a voice and that was a perfect way, but still to have it humorous and, you know, have it

532
00:49:08,328 –> 00:49:09,258
Uh, because what

533
00:49:09,258 –> 00:49:10,798
Peter is a bit of a weirdo.

534
00:49:10,798 –> 00:49:14,168
I mean, being a tree speaker is not a natural thing at the school.

535
00:49:14,168 –> 00:49:15,478
Like, he’s not

536
00:49:15,478 –> 00:49:19,438
It’s a stand-out thing and he’s a bit shy about it, of course.

537
00:49:19,438 –> 00:49:29,658
But, you know, everyone has, uh, different kinds of gifts, not in a Disney kind of way but more subtle, uh, and that gradually they develop while they’re at school.

538
00:49:29,658 –> 00:49:31,068
But what I, what I’ve

539
00:49:31,068 –> 00:49:35,078
Uh, I think I talked to you about it earlier that the thing

540
00:49:35,078 –> 00:49:45,048
When I had them at orientation in the very first book when they first got to the school, uh, everyone was, uh, brought by the principal to the apple orchard.

541
00:49:45,048 –> 00:49:56,368
Uh, so the apple is the principal’s tree, Principal Hallowell, and she has this kind of mystical apple tree that rises up that’s f- far too big for the orchard.

542
00:49:56,368 –> 00:49:57,058
And she

543
00:49:57,058 –> 00:50:04,304
We have this kind of mystical scene where every child among the 100 initiates gets their own baby tree.

544
00:50:05,018 –> 00:50:08,638
So I- I really had a lot of fun with that because it’s kind of

545
00:50:08,638 –> 00:50:11,158
They’re like going to the nursery to get a baby tree.

546
00:50:11,158 –> 00:50:21,712
And we get a sense of what a tree is because you have this round head mound of earth around the roots, and she explains to them that the roots are kind of the brain of the tree.

547
00:50:22,337.99999999953434 –> 00:50:25,617
And everyone gets a tree which

548
00:50:25,617 –> 00:50:29,420
Uh, and among my main characters, um, a tree that somehow

549
00:50:29,420 –> 00:50:33,580
gonna be connected with them and be their friend for their whole time at school.

550
00:50:33,580 –> 00:50:41,890
They’re on an island, a kind of utopian, sort of Arthurian style island, um, a bit like Avalon.

551
00:50:41,890 –> 00:50:47,030
The apple trees are kind of a nod to Avalon and Peter is, in a way- Yes.

552
00:50:47,030 –> 00:50:49,800
a bit like the boy Arthur.

553
00:50:49,800 –> 00:50:54,660
I mean, which is the big story of our time, really, the legend of Arthur and Merlin.

554
00:50:54,660 –> 00:50:54,700
Mm-hmm.

555
00:50:54,700 –> 00:51:09,030
And there’s a, you know, Harry Potter was built around it as well, Harry Potter and Dumbledore, Arthur and Merlin, but I’ve got this boy, Arthur, who is, uh, who has this forest mentor who’s very much like a Merlin character.

556
00:51:09,030 –> 00:51:13,930
He goes in the sackcloth and he’s, um, an expert master at speaking with trees.

557
00:51:13,930 –> 00:51:25,380
So he’s a master tree speaker and he develops a relationship with Peter which is very much, well, not dissimilar to the Arthur and Merlin, which I think is, you know, the story.

558
00:51:25,380 –> 00:51:42,230
Um, I’m digressing a bit ’cause I also wanted to s- tell you that when I published the first book, I was really pleased with my, uh, with my first review, uh, which came from Kirkus, which is sort of the 100-year-old reviewer, uh, originally in New York.

559
00:51:42,230 –> 00:51:54,384
And they said, to my absolute delight, they said, “Collis has created a kind of Hogwarts that operates on the magic of environmental awareness.”

560
00:51:55,202 –> 00:51:55,810
And that to me- Oh.

561
00:51:55,810 –> 00:51:56,840
was like the dream.

562
00:51:56,840 –> 00:51:56,950
I love this.

563
00:51:56,950 –> 00:52:00,210
I have it on the back of the c- of one of those books that you have there.

564
00:52:00,210 –> 00:52:07,160
Uh, because I wanted this environmental awareness thing to come through but I wanted it to feel magical and hopeful.

565
00:52:07,160 –> 00:52:25,392
You talked about hope earlier, and, uh, you know, even the monsters and this kind of fantastical element that hits kids in the imagination, I think that’s a way also of bringing them closer to nature and, and, and helping them generate hope in the way they perceive nature.

566
00:52:25,930 –> 00:52:36,730
Uh, and, and, and if Peter Blue can speak to a tree then maybe a reader might think, well, they might look at trees differently when they’re going down the street, um- Exactly.

567
00:52:36,730 –> 00:52:42,210
and, and to your point about devices, I’m, I’m, I’m not gonna shy away from technology and devices.

568
00:52:42,210 –> 00:52:55,730
In the books they all have phones, very high tech, um, and apps, and Peter actually has a high tech Gaia jacket that once belonged to his father, you know, the mantel of the father, and that is a wearable device.

569
00:52:55,730 –> 00:52:56,010
Mm-hmm.

570
00:52:56,010 –> 00:52:58,250
So, and it’s very, and it gets him- Right.

571
00:52:58,250 –> 00:53:00,500
out of a lot of scrapes.

572
00:53:00,500 –> 00:53:01,980
Uh, but it’s a very cool- Great.

573
00:53:01,980 –> 00:53:02,960
device.

574
00:53:02,960 –> 00:53:22,109
And I’m also, um, aside from my writing and marketing the books, I’m developing an app now which is a Which Tree Is Me app, where readers could actually go in and punch in information about themselves and align themselves with their own tree or look for a tree in their neighborhood and befriend it.

575
00:53:22,109 –> 00:53:39,870
Um, so you know, hoping that I can generate sort of a hope-based, um, and can-do, action-based, uh, response from readers that, you know, they’ll feel empowered, uh, to get closer to nature by seeing a character in the book that is developing this skill.

576
00:53:39,870 –> 00:53:45,740
Sometimes- And I, and, and I think that that hybrid view is the most beautiful way.

577
00:53:45,740 –> 00:53:54,320
Like, you know, I, I, I live in, in one of the largest spiritual communities in the world and we don’t shy away from, you know, technology.

578
00:53:54,320 –> 00:53:58,750
Every once in a while we have somebody who arrives and it’s like, “Oh, I’m assuming you, you don’t use technology here.”

579
00:53:58,750 –> 00:54:00,370
And it’s like, “No, on the contrary.”

580
00:54:00,370 –> 00:54:05,070
Technology is part of our evolution but it is about finding

581
00:54:05,070 –> 00:54:16,459
A- and I, I personally, I have to admit, I’ve, I’ve lived around the world and I love social media because it keeps me in touch with my friends, but it is about curating my, my feed, right?

582
00:54:16,459 –> 00:54:19,500
I am careful about what I click on.

583
00:54:19,500 –> 00:54:39,469
I also, you know, say, “I like,” and “I don’t like” on purpose and I curate it and I balance that, or I, I flow between moments of being very digitally, you know, savvy and doing things online and moments like this weekend where I never opened my computer in, in the sense of sitting down to work.

584
00:54:39,469 –> 00:54:45,246
Yes, I did watch a movie afterwards but it was because I had spent like pretty much 2 days reading a book.

585
00:54:45,826 –> 00:54:45,980
It

586
00:54:45,980 –> 00:54:52,230
And I went out with my friends a bunch of times, you know, and I got to see and we’re working on different projects here.

587
00:54:52,230 –> 00:55:00,930
And so it’s about finding that flowing through it all and that each element helps enhance who you are.

588
00:55:00,930 –> 00:55:18,790
I think that the problem that ends up happening is we see unfortunately technology being used as a crutch, crutch because I have a void, a crutch because I have a trauma that I don’t wanna deal with, a crutch because my parents are not around, a crutch because I don’t have any friends, a crutch of all these types of things.

589
00:55:18,790 –> 00:55:28,550
And when you use it only as a crutch, then that’s when your own skill sets start to atrophy because that is filling a gap that you’re no longer developing.

590
00:55:28,550 –> 00:55:44,850
Where instead we want technology to be, like you had just said, right, “I have this special jack- Peter has a special jacket and therefore it gets him out of a bunch of stuff,” but it’s not because Peter doesn’t have skills, it’s because he’s learned what the jacket can do for him and that’s enhanced his ability to know when to

591
00:55:44,850 –> 00:55:52,340
Like, it’s not that the jacket works on its own and you no longer have to know how to do things, kind of like kids nowadays who don’t know how to drive.

592
00:55:52,340 –> 00:55:54,940
I’m okay with the idea of not every kid having a car, I think- Yeah.

593
00:55:54,940 –> 00:56:00,320
that that’s wonderful, but I think every kid should know how to drive because you never know.

594
00:56:00,320 –> 00:56:08,050
An emergency happens, something is needed, you know, these are essential life skills of the planet that we’re living on- Absolutely.

595
00:56:08,050 –> 00:56:09,080
and that are important.

596
00:56:09,080 –> 00:56:10,992
And reading a book and being able to-

597
00:56:11,734 –> 00:56:23,184
decipher from there clues and codes and being able to explore and visualize and think about and implement and going out to experiment, I think is that exact same way.

598
00:56:23,184 –> 00:56:23,194
Right.

599
00:56:23,194 –> 00:56:23,254
Yeah, yeah.

600
00:56:23,254 –> 00:56:25,194
It’s like technology should enhance that.

601
00:56:25,194 –> 00:56:29,034
And by the way, technology is what I think is gonna get us out of the climate crisis.

602
00:56:29,034 –> 00:56:33,144
We already have pretty much all the technologies we need.

603
00:56:33,144 –> 00:56:45,114
Um, I trained with Al Gore in 2013, pretty much before I got into these books, and he has, his, his presentation is pretty much everything you need to know.

604
00:56:45,114 –> 00:56:57,084
The wa- his famous presentation, I, I trained with him in delivering that, and I decided to take the elements and work with kids based on what I’d learnt, but the presentation is divided into 3 parts.

605
00:56:57,084 –> 00:57:02,884
Um, it’s, it’s basically, uh, “Should we change?”

606
00:57:02,884 –> 00:57:06,034
is the big question, and then you have all the reasons why we should.

607
00:57:06,034 –> 00:57:11,934
Basically, the climate crisis is put in graphic and disturbing detail in front of you.

608
00:57:11,934 –> 00:57:14,354
And then the second part of the presentation is- Right.

609
00:57:14,354 –> 00:57:15,784
“Can we change?”

610
00:57:15,784 –> 00:57:25,814
And that’s a whole segment on all of the technologies that we already have, all of the knowledge, most of it coming out of the US, by the way, ironically.

611
00:57:25,814 –> 00:57:26,834
And, uh- Of course.

612
00:57:26,834 –> 00:57:29,104
the last part is, “Will we change?”

613
00:57:30,884 –> 00:57:34,014
And that’s sort of the area now where I’m operating, but- That’s the harder one.

614
00:57:34,014 –> 00:57:35,024
the, “Can we change?”

615
00:57:35,490 –> 00:57:46,224
You know, 1, it’s, it’s well known by scientists that one hour of energy from our sun is enough to power the whole planet for a year.

616
00:57:47,458 –> 00:57:50,834
So technology, yes, we’re not shying away from it, but, um

617
00:57:50,834 –> 00:57:52,214
And in fact, in book 2 Excellent.

618
00:57:52,214 –> 00:58:12,204
The Renegade Tales, uh, Wanda, uh, who’s quite a big thinking, uh, s- sort of showy character, uh, she uses her phone to solve a big problem and uses social media and her large following to solve a big problem in a very curious way where she actually works with energy from nature.

619
00:58:12,204 –> 00:58:13,714
So it’s a hybrid solution.

620
00:58:13,714 –> 00:58:14,224
Yeah.

621
00:58:14,224 –> 00:58:14,754
I love it.

622
00:58:14,754 –> 00:58:15,034
Yeah.

623
00:58:15,034 –> 00:58:16,574
So I love talking about- Beautiful.

624
00:58:16,574 –> 00:58:17,163.99999999953434
my books.

625
00:58:17,163.99999999953434 –> 00:58:18,844
I could keep going

626
00:58:18,844 –> 00:58:21,144
but- Lo- I can see that and I love that that’s all about

627
00:58:21,144 –> 00:58:23,224
So where do people find your books?

628
00:58:23,224 –> 00:58:23,593
I, I, you know- Well, for now

629
00:58:23,593 –> 00:58:35,054
Okay, if you’re just looking on your own, then obviously Amazon or wherever, pretty much wherever you buy your online books, but I, uh, so Amazon- And we will definitely put links into the show notes.

630
00:58:35,054 –> 00:58:35,074
Yeah, thank you, Ken and Michelle.

631
00:58:35,074 –> 00:58:36,224
I appreciate that.

632
00:58:36,224 –> 00:58:43,254
Uh, however, I’m, I’m very fond of asking people to invest in the circular economy if, if they can.

633
00:58:43,254 –> 00:58:48,054
So back to what you said about libraries, um, IngramSpark.

634
00:58:48,054 –> 00:59:03,593
IngramSpark is the global distributor, um, which sells directly into bookstores, libraries, and, uh, can also be purchased by, uh, sort of any wholesale, uh, arrangement.

635
00:59:03,593 –> 00:59:20,104.00000000046566
So I was telling T Grella when we came on that, uh, I feel a little bit again like an imposter if I’m raising awareness of overcons- overconsumption and all the reasons that we’ve got into this mess, and then I start saying, you know, “Buy all my books.”

636
00:59:20,104.00000000046566 –> 00:59:26,424
So of course, I would love it if someone listening wants to buy the e-book and maybe look, take a look at it.

637
00:59:26,424 –> 00:59:28,134
I’ve kept the e-book very cheap.

638
00:59:28,134 –> 00:59:33,624
That’s on Amazon, uh, Kindle, or wherever you buy e-books.

639
00:59:33,624 –> 00:59:56,024
And then if you are interested in purchasing the paperback for your children or for a child in your life, um, by all means, go to the public library or approach your elementary school librarian if you know him or her or get your kids, even better, to go to the library and ask if they could purchase it so that it could be more of a circular economy thing.

640
00:59:56,024 –> 01:00:07,234
Of course, I wanna sell my books so that I can expand my audience and keep going with what I love to do, but at the same time, I wanna be mindful that any way that we can bring in sharing- Right.

641
01:00:07,234 –> 01:00:18,288
and circular, which is obviously the way forward for the world in, on a rational level in terms of solving the crisis and, um, you know, addressing overconsumption, which is a

642
01:00:19,254 –> 01:00:22,433
We don’t need to go there now, but as we both know, it’s a, it’s a big problem.

643
01:00:22,433 –> 01:00:22,694
No.

644
01:00:22,694 –> 01:00:23,484
Exactly.

645
01:00:23,484 –> 01:00:28,453.99999999953434
I totally understand, and I think it’s wonderful that you’re, you’re pushing for libraries.

646
01:00:30,470 –> 01:00:32,809
sometimes share and they have, like, shared resources.

647
01:00:32,809 –> 01:00:35,510
Community centers have shared resources.

648
01:00:35,510 –> 01:00:52,690
And I think it’s a great thing that you’re saying it out loud, that says, “Hey, don’t just only think about buying for yourself but think about, like, are there, is there a community resource that you have, like, you know, that you can put the book into afterwards so that therefore it circulates?”

649
01:00:52,690 –> 01:01:03,030
I used to, in the núcleo, which is a shared homes that I used to live in, we have, um, a room that has, uh, various bookshelves of which one bookshelf is English- Right.

650
01:01:03,030 –> 01:01:17,320
the other ones are Italian and such, with the idea that we would tell guests, because we had lots of different guests, as well as us ourselves that lived in the house, “You know, if you have a book that you finished reading and you know, you want to be able to have it, pass it along, please put it into this bookshelf.”

651
01:01:17,320 –> 01:01:19,510
And therefore, whenever any guests would come- Right.

652
01:01:19,510 –> 01:01:19,630
Yeah.

653
01:01:19,630 –> 01:01:22,520
we would tell them, “Hey, if you want, just go in there and grab something.”

654
01:01:22,520 –> 01:01:26,096
As a matter of fact, I went back to the house to visit the other day and I picked up, like

655
01:01:26,850 –> 01:01:28,630
Okay, 2 of the books were mine.

656
01:01:28,630 –> 01:01:28,740
I thought they were already yours.

657
01:01:28,740 –> 01:01:31,250
Like, I had put them there and I realized- Yeah.

658
01:01:31,250 –> 01:01:34,080
I realized I really wanted them, like, to read again.

659
01:01:34,080 –> 01:01:35,900
So I was like, “I’m just gonna grab these.”

660
01:01:35,900 –> 01:01:45,170
And I was so excited that one of them was still there, because it was, like, one of those books that I only gave away because it was huge and I was moving around and I was like, “I just want”

661
01:01:45,170 –> 01:01:53,320
But other, but I ended up picking up another book and, um, that I had, uh, that I had read there that I love and I was like

662
01:01:53,320 –> 01:01:55,670
And I picked up a new one and I was like, “Oh, this is great.”

663
01:01:55,670 –> 01:02:00,310
And I have a few books now that I finished reading- Look how excited you are when you’re talking about this.

664
01:02:00,310 –> 01:02:00,430
that I’m like, “Okay, I need to go borrow those.”

665
01:02:00,430 –> 01:02:02,670
And I think, you know, with kids- I know, I’m so worried.

666
01:02:02,670 –> 01:02:19,549
So if someone listening does decide, and I hope you do, to go and take a look at the books, if you do, uh, arrange some kind of a circular economy, maybe a book club or a library, um, purchase, then also bring it to the children’s attention because it can be

667
01:02:19,549 –> 01:02:26,470
I- I don’t like the phrase teaching moment but for want of a better phrase, um, kids get excited when they feel- That’s what it is.

668
01:02:26,470 –> 01:02:37,150
uh, to be coming back to hope, um, not just coming with the bad news but the excitement of even the very smallest thing, where you’re showing how together parents- Right.

669
01:02:37,150 –> 01:02:45,730
or caregivers, teachers and kids are taking action to do something worthwhile that actually is going towards addressing the problems.

670
01:02:45,730 –> 01:02:48,280
Uh, because y- kids feel empowered.

671
01:02:48,280 –> 01:02:48,380
I love it.

672
01:02:48,380 –> 01:02:51,350
And they feel like we’re, we’re doing something together- Yup.

673
01:02:51,350 –> 01:02:55,070
which is an action that has consequences and is fun.

674
01:02:55,070 –> 01:02:57,680
“We’re going to read a book as well and go on an adventure.”

675
01:02:58,300 –> 01:02:59,989
So yeah, it’s

676
01:02:59,989 –> 01:03:00,670
I love it.

677
01:03:00,670 –> 01:03:01,430
I love it.

678
01:03:01,430 –> 01:03:04,210
Laurel, this has been such a delightful conversation.

679
01:03:04,210 –> 01:03:04,920
I’m so excited.

680
01:03:04,920 –> 01:03:06,329
I’m really looking forward- Oh, thank you.

681
01:03:06,329 –> 01:03:09,420
to diving deeper ’cause like I said, I’ve only skimmed through them.

682
01:03:09,420 –> 01:03:15,810
And so now I’m really excited to, like, put, put the first one right next to my bed so that’s my, my reading time.

683
01:03:15,810 –> 01:03:19,210
I’ve made, I have, like, this reading time in the morning and a reading time in the evening.

684
01:03:19,210 –> 01:03:19,410
Yeah.

685
01:03:19,410 –> 01:03:22,260
And I’m looking forward to this being my evening reading time- Yes.

686
01:03:22,260 –> 01:03:23,510
that goes into it.

687
01:03:23,510 –> 01:03:24,450
Any last words?

688
01:03:24,450 –> 01:03:25,300
Anything you want

689
01:03:25,300 –> 01:03:26,040
I mean, you’ve shared already so much.

690
01:03:26,040 –> 01:03:27,340
Well, there’s one more on the way.

691
01:03:27,340 –> 01:03:28,200
Ooh.

692
01:03:28,200 –> 01:03:29,020
Nice.

693
01:03:29,020 –> 01:03:30,672
There’s a fourth book coming, coming out this year.

694
01:03:31,340 –> 01:03:33,660
Yeah, so, um, I’m, I’m excited about that.

695
01:03:33,660 –> 01:03:34,850
I think it’s my best one yet.

696
01:03:34,850 –> 01:03:35,350
Whoo.

697
01:03:35,350 –> 01:03:36,360
And, uh- Fantastic.

698
01:03:36,360 –> 01:03:38,190
Well, we will definitely include- Yeah.

699
01:03:38,190 –> 01:03:41,650
links to your website, links to the books, everything- Thank you very much.

700
01:03:41,650 –> 01:03:41,990
in the show notes.

701
01:03:41,990 –> 01:03:43,829
Yeah, I forgot to say the website, of course.

702
01:03:43,829 –> 01:03:46,170
Yeah, no, I will definitely make sure- Thank you.

703
01:03:46,170 –> 01:03:46,250
to put it right under there.

704
01:03:46,250 –> 01:03:48,380
And everyone, keep reading I think is the message.

705
01:03:48,380 –> 01:03:49,180
Keep reading.

706
01:03:49,180 –> 01:03:49,800
Exactly.

707
01:03:49,800 –> 01:03:56,780
And for everyone, please, like, like we said, go support your local bookstores, support your local, like, libraries- Exactly.

708
01:03:56,780 –> 01:03:56,810
Yeah.

709
01:03:56,810 –> 01:03:59,530
and community centers and all the different places.

710
01:03:59,530 –> 01:04:03,769
And of course, remember that we also have the Plant Wisdom Book Club, which is another place where you can start to learn.

711
01:04:03,769 –> 01:04:04,280
And who knows?

712
01:04:04,280 –> 01:04:05,730
Maybe we’ll add these.

713
01:04:05,730 –> 01:04:10,350
We have plenty of, uh, of books that are unusual in the Plant Wisdom Book Club, so who knows?

714
01:04:10,350 –> 01:04:13,030
Maybe this will end up being one of our reading things.

715
01:04:13,030 –> 01:04:14,180
And so- Oh, I would love that.

716
01:04:14,180 –> 01:04:14,240
Thank you so much.

717
01:04:14,240 –> 01:04:15,329
Yeah, it would be great.

718
01:04:15,329 –> 01:04:24,400
And remember everyone who’s listening, you know, we are always here in the Naturally Conscious community as a place for you to come and have these types of discussions.

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Also remember to like and comment and subscribe and follow and all those important things, because we want this message to get out to as wide an audience as possible so that they can find about wonderful books like this that we’ve been talking about all this time, and Laurel Colis’

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all her great work.

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So remember, you know, take that time, hit that button, go over, support her, and head over to the Naturally Conscious community and join us there for one of our many, many live events, or just to post an idea or 2.

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01:04:53,570 –> 01:04:58,078
And remember, more than anything, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

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Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with otherkin.

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01:05:15,426 –> 01:05:24,848
Here you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group.

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01:05:25,500 –> 01:05:30,730
Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life.

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Intro and outro music by Steve Shouly and Poinsetta from The Singing Life of Plants.

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That’s it for me, Tigress Gardena, and my plant collaborators.

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Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

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I’m out.

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Bye.