Ep.130 Radical Lives in Theatre: Embodied Eco-Feminism with Karen Malpede

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Hello, hello, hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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My guest today

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You know when you, um, watch a movie and you have

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Or maybe some of you have been able to experience it in real life, but you have somebody that you sit down with and is being kind of interviewed or maybe there’s, like, a conversation happening in the kitchen with somebody who is just a piece of story, of a whole, like, movement, of a whole slice of, of, of history?

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That’s what this conversation with Karen Malpede has been like.

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I mean, she is

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What, wh- There’s so much to be able to tell you that it was like we were going off and trying to follow tangents and then bringing them back in, and this is what it looks like to really be radical in the sense of both extreme or movement or bold type of perspective, and also radical as in I am rooted as, like, the radical in that perspective.

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And it was just such an amazing conversation that I know that you’re absolutely gonna love.

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It took me forever to just come up with a title of this episode, because there is just so much in there.

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We talk about theater as, as, um, as, um, as

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Not protest, but as witness in history.

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We talk about the environmental movement before climate change, and how the theater and the arts have been a part of that.

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And most importantly, we really got into the true root of eco-feminism, to the very birth of the word, because Karen actually is friends with the woman who coined it.

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So, there is just so much in here and I am so excited for you to listen and watch, or whichever it is for this, and for you then to go check out, uh, Karen’s work.

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So, without any further ado, this is episode 130, which finally came up with a title.

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It is

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Hold on.

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I have to wro- I wrote it down.

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Radical Lives in Theater: Embodied Eco-Feminism.

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Welcome to Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.

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For over a decade, I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.

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In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Hello, Karen.

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It’s so nice to have you here with us.

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Hello.

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And I should ask you how you pronounce your name correctly.

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Forgot to do that.

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No worries.

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The common thing that lots of people ask me.

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My name is Tee-gree-ah.

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Tee-gree-ah.

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Beautiful.

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Although I would say that most people just say Tegrilla, like, especially in the American world.

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Yeah.

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Which was a question I had for you.

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Is it, like, is it maw-PEE-dee or maw-PEE-dee?

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Or maw-PAY-dee?

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Uh, in the United States, it’s mow-PEE-dee.

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In, in Italy, it’s an Italian nickname which means hard way to walk, like Oedipus.

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Right.

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Malpedi, yep.

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Malpedi, yeah.

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Well, I, I guess, that’s the perfect introduction to kind of help people understand who is Karen Malpedi?

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Yes.

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She chose a hard way to walk.

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..

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Which is to be a eco-feminist, pacifist, political activist, playwright, um, yeah.

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It’s been a good way to walk, also.

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I like how you can condense it.

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When people ask me, like, who I am, I have to say

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I hem and I haw and I give 30,000 different words.

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I love that you could just put it and condense it into that.

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I think that’s just so fantastic.

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It’s beautiful.

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I was so excited when I saw y- your, when I saw your profile come up and where I was looking for, you know, new guests and I saw what you were up to.

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I was like, “Oh my goodness, I need to speak with this woman,” because besides the fact that I love theater, all things theater- Right.

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on, you know, at every scale.

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But the combination of eco-feminism and theater, plus everything else that you’ve done, because you’re an author and so many other pieces, really caught my attention.

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Since we have a lot of people who don’t necessarily know this term, how do you define eco-feminism?

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Well, it’s, it’s obviously the con- Not obviously, but just looking at the word eco-feminism, it’s ecology and feminism.

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So, it is women who are environmental activists, pacifists, that comes with it, um, and who see women as the nurturers, the, uh, the creators of life on Earth, obviously.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and therefore, uh, those who need to protect it, uh, set the example of how we protect the Earth.

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And that’s- I like that.

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I-

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by the way.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I really like that, th- that definition, especially, um, recently I came across somebody who was defining, for example, ecology as, uh, the sociology of nature.

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You know, like, relationships in nature basically.

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And then as I was

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You know how you play with words and you start to kind of expand on definitions, and you’re like, eco-feminism, ecology feminism, the relationship of nature in feminism, and it really made me rethink about how eco-feminism is not

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Fir- first of all, it’s not just about women.

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It’s really about these relationships.

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It’s all those same kind of, um, ideals that we stand for relating to

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looking at any being as the being that they are for who they are, to being able to understand the different relationships and that encounters, that’s, you know, includes also your relationship with self as you said, um, and all these different parts.

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What got you into eco-feminism- Yeah.

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I, uh, uh-

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and how does it combine with your play writing?

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Let me give a hi- a little history lesson.

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Um, one of my oldest friends coined the term eco-feminism.

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She wrote a pamphlet in the 1980s called What is Eco-Feminism?

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And in which she explained it’s the connection between feminism and ecology.

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And in, in the early ’80s, 1983, ’84, um, starting then, uh, we did, uh, big political actions.

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There were 2 women’s marches on the Pentagon and we, uh, brought puppets in a lot of yarn and we wove the doors of the Pentagon shut with yarn.

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Uh, we planted a graveyard on the front steps.

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The Pentagon happens to be, perhaps appropriately, right next to Arlington National Cemetery, which is cemetery for the veterans.

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And so, to get to the Pentagon, we walked through Arlington Cemetery so right to the steps of the Pentagon, which caused all these deaths of the people who are, who are buried there.

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Uh, and then in, um, 1980, uh, ‘4, women bought, uh, I didn’t buy but, uh, women, other women bought a piece of land in Upstate New York and we had a women’s peace encampment for the whole summer because there was an army base in Upstate New York in Sene- near Seneca Falls where the first Women’s, uh, Rights Convention was held in the 19th century.

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Um, we bought this land, we were camping out because the, the plan was to ship nuclear weapons to Europe from this space.

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And there was at the same time in England, Greenham Common, which was another encampment of women who were camped in a forest.

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I was there one day.

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It’s absolutely magical English forest.

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They have these little tents where they live and they too, like we, spoke to the young soldiers who were guarding these weapons.

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Um, we would spend our days outside the fence talking to the guys through the fence.

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Y- y- young, uh, enlisted or drafted, enlisted at that time, and talking to them about, you know, the perils of nuclear war.

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I mean, this was, uh, this was the part of the, uh, a big worldwide anti-nuclear m-, uh, movement which finally resulted in the, the Soviet Union, at that time, Gorbachev signing a non-proliferation treaty with Ronald Reagan to halt the production of these weapons, ’cause we have many more weapons than we need to destroy the whole world many times over.

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We don’t need any more.

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Donald Trump abrogated this treaty, uh, but it was in force for all these years and it made a big difference.

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Yeah.

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And I, I, I love that type of, I, I’m gonna use a s- silly term in a way, active activism in the sense of like- Mm-hmm.

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really activism in that time was, okay, permit me for saying this, I hope it comes across what I’m trying to say which is, it was performance not because it was performative, but it was about, like- Right.

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being visibly seen, about being part of the show, about being there and being witness- Yes.

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whether it’s walking down.

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being more exciting than the other folks.

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Yeah.

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Dancing, singing, using puppets.

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Um, so how, just, you know, in one sense having a very good time, in another sense, sort of winning people over by this attractive energy.

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And I, I- Yeah, which I- I’m, I’m sorry.

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No, no, no.

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Go ahead.

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Go ahead.

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Go ahead.

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This scene, this scene is written about in some detail in my book, but I will tell you what it is.

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written about in some detail in my book, but I will tell you what it is.

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So we walked, uh, in 1984, ’83 or ’84, I can’t, the date, the date’s right in the memoir-

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but I can’t remember it, from the Women’s Peace Encampment.

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We were trying to walk to Seneca Falls, which was, uh, where, in 1848, the first Women’s Rights Convention had been held by Elizabeth Cady Stanton and, know, mer- I’m bolloxing the names.

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Um, but the first Women’s Rights, uh, Convention had been held.

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So we, uh, we were walking there, um, and we walked through a town called Waterloo.

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So we were all women, and a lot of us were lesbian women, a lot of us were mothers, a lot of us were, we were all ages.

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We walked through the town of Waterloo, and we were met on the bridge, um, by a huge mob of white men with guns, and they stopped us on the bridge.

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They did not lezi, commies, et cetera, et cetera, walking through their town.

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And so the women sat down on the bridge, and the men were there with their guns.

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And one line of women stayed sitting, facing the, the men, and the other women formed a circle and debated what we should do.

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Um, I had my 3yearold with me, so I w- walked out to the crowd that was watching because they, we had already been told that if anybody had children, their children would be taken from them and put in foster homes.

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So, uh, but the women who were sitting on the s- in the circle decided they’re not going anywhere, and so the women were arrested and the men were let go.

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You know, the men weren’t

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Yeah.

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Um, this was 1984.

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So one of the women I write, one of the people I write about in the book is Barbara Deming, who was a, freedom rider.

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She spent a month in jail in the South because she was on one of the freedom buses trying to de-, uh, uh, desegregate the South.

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She was a pacifist, feminist, lesbian activist.

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And she also, at that time, had terminal cancer, and she was on the bridge, and she was arrested with the women and she spent a week in jail.

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They, they carted off all the women to a, to a s- it was summer, so there was a school that wasn’t in session, and they turned the school into a prison, which I guess is, uh, you know, says something about schools too.

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Um, all right.

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And, and, uh, the women were held.

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Finally they were released ’cause we hadn’t done anything.

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We were walking.

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You know, we hadn’t broken any law.

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Um, but Barbara, uh, in the, uh, I record, as she walked up the ramp to get into the flatbed truck that was taking the women to the prison, she had her fist in the air in the black power salute.

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Um, and, uh, then, you know, after that, after spending a week in jail, and when she came out giving num- number of interviews, ’cause she was a well-known writer and, and activist, uh, she went home to her commune in Florida.

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And not so long after that, she took herself off cancer medication and she staged a daily ritual, um, called Dancing for Death, To Death, Toward Death, Dancing Toward Death.

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And every night, the women in her commune would gather and sit in a circle and sing Aretha Franklin, sing all kinds of songs, play the drums.

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Barbara would dance naked a lot of the time in the middle of this circle, and she knew that she was as dancing toward death.

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And, and she wrote a letter to the rest of us, a goodbye letter, which we got, I got it after she died, um, from her lover.

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Uh, but it was, “I have loved life so much and I’ve loved all of you so much and, but, uh, and now it’s time to die, and I’m not afraid and I, you know, love you.”

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And I quote the letter, I’m not quoting it verbatim here, but I quote it verbatim in the memoir.

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So that was one example of a conscious death.

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Um, not many people, and I’m not, I don’t tell what, I don’t tell people what to do medically, so I’m not telling anybody what to do.

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Not many people take themselves off chemotherapy, um, at the end.

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Uh, so she did, and her brother was a doctor who was overseeing her care, and he was horrified that she would do such a thing.

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But she, you know, she maintained her control.

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Uh, she was a willowy, she was very tall and she had a very tiny voice, but she had the strength of a, you know, a great, tall tree in the forest that can bend this way and that way without breaking ever.

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Um, she was an amazing woman, an amazing example for all of us.

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So she’s one of the people I profile in the book.

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Yeah, you talk, uh, in, in speaking of Tata, you bring, you bring 2 different images to mind, which, you know, take me down 2 different rabbit holes, but that I think are so important.

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One is the aspect of which I, I’m gonna circle back to, which is exactly what you’re talking about, about like, living life on your own terms.

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And especially here in Dom and Her, we would consider that to be somebody who’s hosting the Holy Grail, because for us-What we’ve discovered is that the grail is disease, but not disease like illness, but it’s illness towards evolution.

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Evolutionary disease, the ability for you to- Okay.

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to use, uh, illness as an evolutionary step.

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Uh-huh.

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It doesn’t matter what the, quote unquote, outcome is, especially since we will all die at some point.

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We will.

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The point is more of how you live it and how it becomes a part of your life, and whether that, you know, leads you towards, quote unquote, cure, or whether that leads to further illness, doesn’t really matter because that’s not the point.

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The point is how do you connect in it as part of illness, as part of your evolution, and what it means to evolve and what can you learn and experience from it.

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So I’m definitely gonna come back into that conversation.

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The other side of it is I think another beautiful piece which goes to the ecofeminism that we were just talking about it, which is, you know, she saw her role, uh, in the ecosystem, right?

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The role of inspiri- inspiration, of catalyst, of movement, of all these different pieces.

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And so like you said, here is this beautiful, lovely tree that is a part, an anchored part of our community who is showing the way, like the way you live life, which isn’t about, you know, sitting in a bed only or not, you know, taking these meds, because when you reach a point when you know that that’s not really your path anymore.

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But it’s more of, “I’m going to be here present living this life and showing you that, you know, this is my piece.

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This is the, the ecosystem role that I play for you, and I wanna do this with you so that we can then, you know, each one of us is gonna take and, and continue to build out this ecosystem in the way that they are.”

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And I think that that’s such an important piece also of ecofeminism, is that element of community, that element of creating those bonds.

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Like you said, you know, we’re gonna walk and then we’re gonna sit together, and then we’re gonna sit in a circle and we’re gonna talk about what to do while there’s one line that holds the line.

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Like, all these different elements that are such minute details that I feel like are lost to so many people, that is the true heart of the ecofeminism movement.

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Barbara says, and this is also in the memoir, the week that the women spent in prison, they continued to sit in a circle and debate what they were going to do.

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And she says that this slowing down of time so that every woman got to say what she felt and thought, and no decisions were made until everyone was heard, this was witnessed by the police who were guarding them.

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And she believed that this had an impact on the police who had never seen such a thing before.

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The slowing down of time so that we can really feel where we are in the moment, you know, is a piece of all the people I write about and the theater that they made as well.

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Um, uh, you know, because we’re trying to change perception.

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And in order to change perception, we also have to change the way we are in time, right?

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The way we act.

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And so my husband, George Bartenieff, who is a great actor, and he, his story is told in the book, and also Julian Beck, who was a great actor, producer.

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George was too a great actor, producer.

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These are amazing people.

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Um, and they each had a, a s- particular style of transformational acting, so that in the second to the last play that George did of mine is called Other Than We, and he plays a, an elderly linguist after, uh, uh, the deluge, a worldwide ecological catastrophe, when the survivors are living in a dome and they’re under extreme surveillance.

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And these 4 people escape from the dome out into the world that is newly regenerating but is very hot, you know, is barely livable, but they know a place that’s been seeded and so they go there.

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And George played the character based on a friend of ours named Noam Chom- Noam Chomsky.

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Noam is, you know, world famous.

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Um, so George played an elderly linguist, uh, in the play.

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And at the end of the play, he loses language and he turns into an owl in full view of the audience.

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The owl is the bird of wisdom.

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And the newbies, these little creatures who were born of the women who escaped, have been engineered by them, uh, to be able to live in this harsh environment.

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So they have opposable thumbs, but they have hooves, they can run, they can live without water for a long time, they can extan- they can withstand extreme temperature differences, and they have language.

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And the key is, their head and their hearts are connected, so they cannot violate the head-heart connection.

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They’re, they’re incapable of mass murder, they’re incapable of cruelty, they’re incapable of all these things that are driving us all crazy and are holding us back, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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We have to, yeah, so, uh- I, I’m so, I, I’m like, my mind is already spinning with a thousand different pieces because as you were bef- even before you got to the part of the ending of that, you know, of this play, I’m already thinking, “This is what it means to, like, live your true nature.”

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Like, to really live in that connection piece, as you were telling all of these- Mm-hmm.

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different stories.

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For me, ’cause sometimes I think, I, I worry that the people who listen to the podcast sometimes are, you know, like, I’m like, “Oh, are they wondering when we’re gonna specifically talk about a plant?”

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But it’s so much more than that.

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Yeah.

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And that’s what I think is finally- Mm-hmm.

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starting to come across to people which is, this is about when we start to heal that wound of separation, which is when we start to recognize ourselves of being of nature.

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And I think being a playwright and, you know, an author like you are, I really would love to hear more about, because it feels like you express that through that art, right?

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So you’re- Yeah.

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able to give people that imagery of imagine yourself turn into- Mm-hmm.

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an owl, imagine yourself live in that heart-mind connection.

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Here’s what it could look like when an embodied person- Mm-hmm.

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does this type of thing.

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You know, and I feel like that is why I talk so much about the arts, because I feel- Mm-hmm.

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like it’s what allows us- Yeah.

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to experience a new paradigm, to, to kind of step out of the rules that society has built for us today- Mm-hmm.

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and embody that.

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And that’s the true nature connection.

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Yeah, and embody is a great word, word.

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Mm-hmm.

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In your body.

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Mm-hmm.

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Embodying yourself through your body, which of course is what actors do.

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They use their bodies, their voices and their bodies, to show us the way.

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And George, who was a great transformational actor, not only turned into an owl, but in an earlier play we did together he is a geneticist who’s swallowed by a rare beast, rare, the last living kind of her, her species.

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She swallows him, he plays a scene in the belly of the beast, the beast separates, we can see inside her belly, there’s a love scene played, and he’s, he comes out her mouth and he’s transformed into an ecologist.

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And at the end of this play, he goes through the ladder of evolution.

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So he starts as a praying mantis and he climbs, – Wow.

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through the ladder of evolution, a lion, a bird, and he turns out, uh, as a man.

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But he has to go through all of the, all of the evolutionary ladder.

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And then he lies down on the stage next to this big beast and in comes a baby beast who has a human face but is all covered in fur and paws and things.

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Um, and she lies down next to them, um

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And, and see, this is the kind of, it- it’s the reawakening also of our memories.

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And I think that that, you know, like you said, going through all these stages of evolution is not a, “I’m better,” but more of, “Remember where you came from, remember who you are, remember the parts of-” Mm-hmm.

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So that as you step into that human form which most humans unfortunately have forgotten their origins.

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Most of us live our lives completely disconnected without understanding where it is that we come from and the importance of where we come from, ’cause it’s not just a, oh, a, a mental game.

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It is- Mm-hmm.

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like we said earlier, an embodied game.

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Like I am a very different person when I feel myself connected to the lion in me- Mm-hmm.

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to, you know, the praying mantis in me, to- Mm-hmm.

242
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It’s funny, I just took a picture of a praying mantis that was beautifully hanging out next- Uh-huh.

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to one of the buildings here.

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But, um, you know- Oh, that’s gorgeous.

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when, when I’m, I am each one of these and I can feel that kinship, that, that reciprocity- Mm-hmm.

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that, that feeling of connection when I see this animal and I’m like, “Ooh, we are actually of the same.

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We’re of that same fabric, um, you in that form and I in this form,” I think it’s so important and that’s what I love about the kind of art that you create, because you give the chance for person to not just, you know, to, to, to n- see it and to feel it through the emotions that somebody else, in this case an actor, in this case your husband- Mm-hmm.

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like, what they put out is a field that people can- Mm-hmm.

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then feel and experience.

250
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Mm-hmm.

251
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Mm-hmm.

252
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How did you get into playwriting?

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Like, what- I was-

254
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what was it that brought you there?Uh, I was gonna tell an earlier story, and then I’ll answer that question as well as I can.

255
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So, I rode horses as a, as a kid, and, uh, I spent every minute I could at the stable.

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I wasn’t always riding.

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I was cleaning horses, mucking out stalls, you know, doing all the stuff that you have to do.

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Horses are high maintenance.

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They’re wonderful animals, beautiful, intelligent, kind.

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So, uh, I was at the horse farm of the people who owned the stable, who happened to be a gay male couple, and they had a, a house in the country, and that’s where they retired the horses who had been at the s- school, horses at the stable.

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So, it was, like, sunset and it was almost dinnertime, and I was standing at the pasture and looking at these horses being just so at, at peace, at ease, grazing, little foals, you know, everybody hanging out together.

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And I knew one of the horses, named Apache, ’cause I had ridden him and he had been retired now, and I knew he was a cool horse and he wouldn’t get upset if I got on him.

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So, I walked into the pasture and I jumped onto Apache, who was pretty small, I could pull myself up, and of course everybody scattered ’cause I had disrupted the whole scene.

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I was this alien human.

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I walked into the pasture, “What does she want?”

266
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And I just sat on his back while the community regrouped around us, and then little foals would come and nibble my toes and I, I was just taken in.

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As, first I was an alien, but then I was part of the group, right?

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And that was an in- a formative ex- experience for me.

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I felt, uh, I had transcended my human form, you know, and, and been welcomed in a, you know, in a, in a community that was, you know, completely nature.

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And then I walked into the house ’cause it was dinnertime and I looked at the people sitting around the table and I thought, “Who are these aliens?”

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I know that feeling.

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And, and then, to make it worse, we were served lamb chops and there had been a lamb outside the house called Lammy, and we were eating this little lamb.

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And at that point, it took me d- uh, till I g- left home to become a vegetarian, but at that point I knew I had to stop eating meat.

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And as soon as I could take care, you know, I lived at home and we had meat for every meal so it was hard to stop eating meat.

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As soon as I went to college, I could become a vegetarian.

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Interesting.

277
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Yeah, that, that, I know that feeling of, like, coming into a group and saying, “Who are these aliens?”

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Like, after you’ve been in deep communion.

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I, I went to the mountains on Sunday and I was walking with a group and, um, my friend is a, a woods guy.

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One of my, my closest friends here is a, is a woods guy.

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He is wonderful and I love going on walks with him because he really takes you to these gorgeous areas here at the foothills of the Alps that we are.

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Yeah.

283
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But there was a woman in the group, very nice in general.

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Like, I remember, kept thinking, “In another context, I would love to hang out with this woman.”

285
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But in that context, she just wouldn’t stop talking.

286
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Oh.

287
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And she just had to know everything, and I’m like, “Can you just fr-” Just for a minute.

288
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So I ended up, like- Mm-hmm.

289
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walking in front of everybody else.

290
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And there was another woman in the group who was, like, perfect because, you know, she would, we would interact and then she would go off and, like, wander and she, y- But especially because it’s mushroom season here, so they just kept looking for mushrooms and it, and it was in such a greedy, I-want, I-want-mushrooms way.

291
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It felt so foreign and I was like

292
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So- I know.

293
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So there was 2 of us, one that was way in the back and me who was way in the front, and we were like, “Om.”

294
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Like, “This is home.

295
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Can we just-” Yeah.

296
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” enjoy being home?”

297
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And then and this other woman who just kept interrupting.

298
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So I know that feeling of like, “Oh my gosh, who are these alien humans-” You know, I think- “

299
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that are in the middle of it all?”

300
00:30:10,000 –> 00:30:13,456
Yeah, and I think, you know, it starts in childhood.

301
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Hm.

302
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Um, who you’re going to become, you have no idea who you’re gonna become, but the seeds are planted in you in childhood.

303
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So my husband, George, was a hidden child in Nazi Germany.

304
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He was born 10 days-

305
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before Hitler came to power.

306
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He was from a mixed marriage.

307
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His mother was from a very wealthy, um, Huguenot family in Berlin, and his father was a Russian Jewish, uh, immigrate to Germany.

308
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And his mother and his father ran a dance company.

309
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Anyway, uh, th- this story is told in detail in the book, but fast-forward.

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In 1938, the kids, George and his brother, to, were, were sent to a Steiner school in Bavaria to get them as far away from Berlin as possible.

311
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And because they, they couldn’t leave the country because they

312
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George didn’t have a birth certificate, he didn’t have papers.

313
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And the fami- the German family would eventually get

314
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The next year, they would get the kids out ’cause they could pull a lot of strings.

315
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But now they wanted them just away, you know?

316
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And so the Steiner school, if you know Rudolf Steiner, um, they held their classes outside in the woods in the Bavarian Alps, and every holiday was celebrated with a festival.

317
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And George, he writes, I quote him in the book, he says, “I would never have become an actor, uh, uh, uh, without going to the Steiner school because every holiday was celebrated with a festival.”

318
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And he learned the importance of, of play and of, of celebrating nature.

319
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He started the Halloween parade in New York City, which is now this massive, huge public event because he wanted, he wanted to create public rituals.

320
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And he started Theater for the New City, which was a theater that became a home for all the underground avant-garde artists of the, of the ’80s and ’90s, and s- well, ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s.

321
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So it was h- again, his formative experience of having, holding classes in the Alp, in the woods in, in Bavaria, in the Alps too, um, that, that made him an eco-conscious actor as a child.

322
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And, uh, he produced, for many years, uh, an eco-festival.

323
00:32:36,320 –> 00:32:39,720
This was before climate change became known.

324
00:32:39,720 –> 00:32:47,760
The, the early eco movement, ecology movement, uh, started, well, it started with, uh, Scott and, and, uh, what’s her name?

325
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Nearing, the, the Nearings who began the back-to-the-land movement, and people, um, who were trying to live more simply and closer to nature.

326
00:32:58,920 –> 00:33:12,060
And this was also part of the, uh, antiwar movement, part of the alternate, all the alternative movements that were going on in the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s, the civil rights movement, uh, the feminist movement.

327
00:33:12,060 –> 00:33:25,616
We all, we all had our also our roots in, uh, let’s live more simply, let’s live more connected to the land, let’s get out of capitalism, let’s find another way.

328
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I, I

329
00:33:31,040 –> 00:33:33,420
Buzz mind.

330
00:33:33,420 –> 00:33:34,680
Yeah.

331
00:33:34,680 –> 00:33:36,400
People, you know, people don’t know- Well, because-

332
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this history.

333
00:33:38,200 –> 00:33:38,280
Yeah.

334
00:33:38,280 –> 00:33:39,200
They don’t.

335
00:33:39,200 –> 00:33:42,460
They think that all of this ecology talk, like you said

336
00:33:42,460 –> 00:33:47,300
I’m glad that you said, you know, all, so much of this started before, you know- Yeah.

337
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before climate change.

338
00:33:48,520 –> 00:33:49,920
It’s not just about

339
00:33:49,920 –> 00:33:53,104
As a matter of fact, climate change, to a certain extent, I know

340
00:33:53,680 –> 00:33:55,760
Bear with me for a second so I can explain it.

341
00:33:55,760 –> 00:34:05,850
You know, climate change really sometimes can be such a huge distraction because that is the, that is just the symptom of a, of a core problem-

342
00:34:05,850 –> 00:34:16,560
of disconnection that then pushes us into behaviors, re- regardless of whether we’re talking about just things that heat up the, you know, that, that heat up the, the temperature- Mm-hmm.

343
00:34:16,560 –> 00:34:18,000
and all these other pieces.

344
00:34:19,679.9999999997672 –> 00:34:20,199.99999999976717
it is

345
00:34:20,199.99999999976717 –> 00:34:25,440
We’re so disconnected that we don’t even know how to best understand a change in climate.

346
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We don’t know what is, you know, acceptable ch- ’cause the climate’s always changing.

347
00:34:30,480 –> 00:34:40,139.99999999976717
But we don’t understand how to address this because we keep getting stuck in these numbers without going deeper into this embodiment- Mm-hmm.

348
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we keep saying.

349
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The embodiment as a per- as, as a person of nature, and so sometimes it is good to go back to the origins that ecology has existed before we ever got to climate change.

350
00:34:51,040 –> 00:34:57,680
Well, ecology was- It’s existed- I mean, living with the land, living off the land was the way we came into being.

351
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We all lived off the land.

352
00:34:59,500 –> 00:35:00,600
Uh, and we still- Absolutely.

353
00:35:00,600 –> 00:35:05,640
live off the land even if we’re eating food that comes to us in cans or processed foods.

354
00:35:05,640 –> 00:35:07,312
We still are living off the land.

355
00:35:07,870 –> 00:35:09,200
So- Absolutely.

356
00:35:09,200 –> 00:35:09,420
Yeah.

357
00:35:09,420 –> 00:35:11,300
We’re feeling this- Not with- And, and, and f-

358
00:35:11,300 –> 00:35:12,620
you know, what are we eating.

359
00:35:12,620 –> 00:35:13,880
Um, yeah.

360
00:35:13,880 –> 00:35:15,800
Um, yeah.

361
00:35:15,800 –> 00:35:15,960
Yeah.

362
00:35:15,960 –> 00:35:18,580
And these are those craziness of all those pieces.

363
00:35:18,580 –> 00:35:24,100
And I think you brought in another element that I feel like is so important in this, which is that element of ritual- Mm-hmm.

364
00:35:24,100 –> 00:35:26,560
and that el- element of celebration- Yeah.

365
00:35:26,560 –> 00:35:27,779.9999999995343
in all its forms.

366
00:35:27,779.9999999995343 –> 00:35:40,960
I know that, for example, in the memoir, you talk about, you know, the death of your husband and how important it is to understand how people die to, to connect into that cycle because it is a cycle of life.

367
00:35:40,960 –> 00:35:43,400
I mean, it, it’s part of our process.

368
00:35:43,400 –> 00:35:47,040
It’s something kind of similar to what we were talking about the story at the very beginning.

369
00:35:47,040 –> 00:35:51,340
I come off of, you know, chemotherapy medicine because I know that my end is here- Mm-hmm.

370
00:35:51,340 –> 00:35:53,920
and I wanna have my ending in my terms.

371
00:35:53,920 –> 00:35:58,430
I had one of my closest friends, um, last year do the same thing.

372
00:35:58,430 –> 00:35:59,360
Mm-hmm.

373
00:35:59,360 –> 00:36:05,310
She chose at some point for, uh, she had a, a very strong aggressive form of cancer.

374
00:36:05,310 –> 00:36:10,860
And at some point, they were like, “Well, the only way would be for you to keep doing rounds of chemotherapy.

375
00:36:10,860 –> 00:36:13,380
Then take 3 months to, like, recover from that.

376
00:36:13,380 –> 00:36:15,160
And then by that time, you have to start again.”

377
00:36:15,160 –> 00:36:16,680
And she was like, “You know what?

378
00:36:16,680 –> 00:36:16,870
No.”

379
00:36:16,870 –> 00:36:17,220.00000000046566
Mm-hmm.

380
00:36:17,220.00000000046566 –> 00:36:18,900
Like, “I’m, I’m done with that cycle.

381
00:36:18,900 –> 00:36:22,140
I wanna really just enjoy this period of my life.”

382
00:36:22,140 –> 00:36:27,460
And it was one of the most beautiful experiences for all of us- Yes.

383
00:36:27,460 –> 00:36:29,220.00000000046566
to be able to witness- Yes.

384
00:36:29,220.00000000046566 –> 00:36:31,520
and be a part of her life- Mm-hmm.

385
00:36:31,520 –> 00:36:42,744
in this very conscious transition s- to the fact that I remember the day before she diedI had gone to visit her and we were sitting and chatting and she would, like, space out for a second.

386
00:36:42,744 –> 00:36:42,813
Mm-hmm.

387
00:36:42,813 –> 00:36:45,484
And I was like, I would have to wait until she would come back.

388
00:36:45,484 –> 00:36:49,714
She came back and we were talking, and she’s like, “Did you notice that I keep kind of going away?”

389
00:36:49,714 –> 00:36:51,904
And I was like, “Yeah, where are you going?”

390
00:36:51,904 –> 00:36:51,924
Hmm.

391
00:36:51,924 –> 00:36:54,404
And she’s like, “Nirvana.”

392
00:36:54,404 –> 00:36:54,804
You know?

393
00:36:54,804 –> 00:36:57,844
Like, like she was very adamant about, like, this is- Yeah.

394
00:36:57,844 –> 00:37:00,504
this was her connection and she felt it.

395
00:37:00,504 –> 00:37:03,074
Like, she’s like, “It’s, it’s so close now.”

396
00:37:03,074 –> 00:37:03,104
Yeah.

397
00:37:03,104 –> 00:37:06,504
Like, she was right there getting ready for this.

398
00:37:06,504 –> 00:37:08,163.99999999953434
It was such a beautiful experience.

399
00:37:08,163.99999999953434 –> 00:37:17,374
I’d love to hear more about how you bring that into the memoir and your own experiences, e- and how this has become a, a, a part, a big part of th- of your life.

400
00:37:18,144 –> 00:37:22,404
So, my father had cancer, uh, and he, he was very young.

401
00:37:22,404 –> 00:37:30,824
He was 44 when he died and this was in, uh, he died in, in, um, 1969.

402
00:37:30,824 –> 00:37:36,848
Um, so chemotherapy was really aggressive and, and really toxic.

403
00:37:37,524 –> 00:37:41,384
And he, he, he was given every

404
00:37:41,384 –> 00:37:55,444
He went to a, a, he went to a cancer center, you know, where they had it and they just nuked him and it was unclear to me whether he was an expe- an experimental creature or they were, uh, they, they

405
00:37:55,444 –> 00:37:56,683
‘Cause cancer could not be cured.

406
00:37:56,683 –> 00:37:58,064
We know, we knew that.

407
00:37:58,064 –> 00:37:58,124
Right.

408
00:37:58,124 –> 00:38:09,464
So, he, he’s, was kept alive for 3 years, but 2 of those years were absolute agony and he was afraid to die and my mother didn’t want him to die, et cetera, et cetera.

409
00:38:09,464 –> 00:38:15,024
So, I watched that as a child and I’ve written about it in, uh, 2 plays.

410
00:38:15,024 –> 00:38:19,920
Um, and, uh, I, I thought it was terrible.

411
00:38:20,504 –> 00:38:22,384
I didn’t, you know, that, that

412
00:38:22,384 –> 00:38:25,936
I thought he was being tortured you know, by the medical establishment.

413
00:38:26,624 –> 00:38:30,404
Um, which turned me against western medicine.

414
00:38:30,404 –> 00:38:32,844
Not that I’m totally, you know, but pretty much.

415
00:38:32,844 –> 00:38:33,644
What’s another way?

416
00:38:33,644 –> 00:38:36,703
Can we cure this in some other way than penicillin or-

417
00:38:36,703 –> 00:38:38,644
you know, uh, you know, can we

418
00:38:38,644 –> 00:38:40,404
But, you know, I’m not, you know

419
00:38:40,404 –> 00:38:55,584
Okay, so then, uh, in my 40s, one of my closest friends, Julian Beck, who founded The Living Theater, which is very well known in Italy because they l- they lived in Italy for a number of years, uh, as an itinerant theater.

420
00:38:55,584 –> 00:39:02,032
Uh, they’re one of the best known and most influential experimental theaters of the ’60s and ’70s.

421
00:39:02,924 –> 00:39:07,723
Th- they became friends of mine, Judith Malina and Julian Beck when I published my first book.

422
00:39:07,723 –> 00:39:21,924
And so in the ’80s, Julian, who was 60, only 60 and kind of at the peak of his artistic life, uh, was also dying of cancer and he did not take himself off medication.

423
00:39:21,924 –> 00:39:29,359.99999999953434
In fact, he was fed, uh, intravenously ’cause he could no longer digest food for a year.

424
00:39:30,114 –> 00:39:33,404
12 hours a day, he would be hooked to the feeding machine.

425
00:39:33,404 –> 00:39:35,644
12 hours a day, he would not be.

426
00:39:35,644 –> 00:39:39,524
But he, he kept working this whole time.

427
00:39:39,524 –> 00:39:43,824
He was writing, he was acting, he was acting in some big Hollywood movies.

428
00:39:43,824 –> 00:39:47,324
He was in The Cotton Club, he was in Poltergeist II.

429
00:39:47,324 –> 00:39:49,804
He’s the evil guy in Poltergeist II.

430
00:39:49,804 –> 00:39:53,244
He was in Miami Vice, he played a criminal in Miami Vice.

431
00:39:53,244 –> 00:39:54,764
This is the most pacifist-

432
00:39:54,764 –> 00:39:57,712
the most non-violent person I’ve ever met in my life.

433
00:39:58,304 –> 00:40:04,814
So, at the very end of his life, he was, uh, going to go, he had done 2 Beckett plays, a Beckett play- Oh.

434
00:40:04,814 –> 00:40:07,484
in, uh, in New York in, uh, at La MaMa.

435
00:40:07,484 –> 00:40:19,663.9999999995343
And my husband, George, who I didn’t know yet, was also in another Beckett play that was done on the same bill, and they were going to Europe to tour, and then he took himself off the feeding tube.

436
00:40:20,864 –> 00:40:22,564
To do this tour.

437
00:40:22,564 –> 00:40:26,840
He said, “It will, uh, touring will increase my appetite.”

438
00:40:26,840 –> 00:40:35,280
Well, he knew somewhere he was br- that he couldn’t digest, but he didn’t want to be bothered on tour with his feeding tube.

439
00:40:35,280 –> 00:40:37,720
So they, they went to Munich.

440
00:40:37,720 –> 00:40:45,420
They were supposed to go to Venice, but he was too ill and they flew back, and then he was in hospital.

441
00:40:45,420 –> 00:40:50,460
He died in, in, uh, um, Mount Sinai Hospital.

442
00:40:50,460 –> 00:40:57,620
But, um, he kept writing up until the very last day of his life, really.

443
00:40:57,620 –> 00:41:09,060
So he wrote a book of poets, of poe- poems, um, at the very end of his life, which Judith said, um, the book is about the struggle between the poet and death.

444
00:41:09,060 –> 00:41:10,650
And, and so

445
00:41:10,650 –> 00:41:18,400
So he was, he was conscious, uh, conscious dying, again, and he also understood the importance of community.

446
00:41:18,400 –> 00:41:21,840
So we would gather in his hospital room every day.

447
00:41:21,840 –> 00:41:28,380
People would sing, people would chant, people would bring crystals, people would bring flowers, they would bring potions of all sorts.

448
00:41:28,380 –> 00:41:30,000
Allen Ginsberg came in.

449
00:41:30,000 –> 00:41:35,600
There’s a funny story in my book about Allen, and I was in the room with Julian and Allen.

450
00:41:35,600 –> 00:41:39,820
What happened, you have to read the book, but it’s a very funny story.

451
00:41:39,820 –> 00:41:43,850
Um, and so there was that death.

452
00:41:43,850 –> 00:41:46,460
And I introduced Julian to Barbara.

453
00:41:46,460 –> 00:41:48,840
They were both dying at the same time.

454
00:41:48,840 –> 00:41:53,900
They both chose different ways, but in the sense they were the same way.

455
00:41:53,900 –> 00:41:58,840
They wanted to be surrounded by community, and they said that.

456
00:41:58,840 –> 00:42:00,240
And, uh, they all

457
00:42:00,240 –> 00:42:05,720
He took himself off the feeding tube finally, and she took herself off the, the chemotherapy.

458
00:42:05,720 –> 00:42:10,650
So that was, um, really, that was when I was 40.

459
00:42:10,650 –> 00:42:11,900
And I

460
00:42:11,900 –> 00:42:19,140
During this time, I had a kind of mad affair with one of the people who came to s- visit Julian, who was an acupuncturist.

461
00:42:19,140 –> 00:42:23,740
A gorgeous half-Algerian, half-French acupuncturist.

462
00:42:23,740 –> 00:42:24,624
And, um

463
00:42:25,940 –> 00:42:26,928
And that

464
00:42:27,820 –> 00:42:35,980
So fast forward a few years, and I write a play called Us, which uses all this stuff that I’ve been telling you.

465
00:42:35,980 –> 00:42:40,269
So there are 2 actors, a man and a woman, who play 6 characters.

466
00:42:40,269 –> 00:42:47,600
They play themselves and their parents as lovers in 11 scenes of psychosexual dynamics.

467
00:42:48,220 –> 00:42:51,260
I just re-read this play yesterday and I was shocked.

468
00:42:51,260 –> 00:42:55,160
I mean, it’s- It’s, it’s the most daring play I think I’ve ever read.

469
00:42:55,160 –> 00:42:57,680
Certainly sexually most daring.

470
00:42:57,680 –> 00:42:59,420
It’s totally wild.

471
00:42:59,420 –> 00:43:00,120
It’s, it’s

472
00:43:00,120 –> 00:43:01,000
I loved it.

473
00:43:01,000 –> 00:43:02,540
I loved re-reading it.

474
00:43:02,540 –> 00:43:12,320
So this play is dedicated to Julian, and to Jean Genet, who was a friend of Julian’s and a playwright I much admired, although I didn’t know him.

475
00:43:12,320 –> 00:43:15,080
Um, and they had both just died.

476
00:43:15,080 –> 00:43:25,648
And Judith Malina, Julian’s, uh, partner, directed the play at Theater for the New City, which was the theater that George co-founded.

477
00:43:26,280 –> 00:43:28,980
And he was in it, George was in it.

478
00:43:28,980 –> 00:43:35,480
So that’s how I met George, doing e- he was doing 11 scenes of psychosexual dynamics.

479
00:43:35,480 –> 00:43:38,660
And he was beautiful in this play.

480
00:43:38,660 –> 00:43:40,336.00000000046566
Um, and that’s how we met.

481
00:43:41,600 –> 00:43:42,420
Wow.

482
00:43:42,420 –> 00:43:43,450
Just so

483
00:43:43,450 –> 00:43:52,336.00000000046566
You- So in a way, cancer brought me to, uh, gave me my, my creative insights.

484
00:43:52,900 –> 00:43:55,000
Cancer and horses.

485
00:43:55,000 –> 00:44:01,060
Horses and, you know, nature and, and cancer, which is sort of anti-nature, right?

486
00:44:01,060 –> 00:44:01,860
Right.

487
00:44:01,860 –> 00:44:07,952
Gave me, you know, this, this dialectic that I’m still working with, you know, all the

488
00:44:08,540 –> 00:44:13,680
How do we generate life, and what are the destructive forces that keep us from doing that?

489
00:44:14,590 –> 00:44:17,050
And speaking of that, you’ve also had

490
00:44:17,050 –> 00:44:19,660
I mean, you’ve, you’ve also written plays about extreme weather.

491
00:44:19,660 –> 00:44:22,640
Like, didn’t you have a play that was connected to the Paris Climate Conference?

492
00:44:22,640 –> 00:44:23,080
Yeah.

493
00:44:23,080 –> 00:44:26,512
Extreme Weather, which is spelled W-H-E-T-H-E-R.

494
00:44:27,260 –> 00:44:27,960
Right.

495
00:44:27,960 –> 00:44:28,720.0000000004657
Yeah.

496
00:44:28,720.0000000004657 –> 00:44:30,740
And- And- It’s based on the

497
00:44:30,740 –> 00:44:31,400
Is

498
00:44:31,400 –> 00:44:34,020
Was inspired by the story of James Hansen.

499
00:44:34,020 –> 00:44:44,110
Jim is one of the foremost climate scientists in the world, and he was the one who went to Congress in 1988 and he said, uh, you know

500
00:44:44,110 –> 00:44:46,279.99999999953434
Everybody knew that global warming could happen.

501
00:44:46,279.99999999953434 –> 00:44:47,779.9999999995343
He said, “It’s happening.

502
00:44:47,779.9999999995343 –> 00:44:49,500
The, the temperature’s going up.

503
00:44:49,500 –> 00:44:51,779.9999999995343
We have found, we have tracked it.

504
00:44:51,779.9999999995343 –> 00:44:53,860
So, you have to do this, this, this.”

505
00:44:53,860 –> 00:44:55,920
And Congress said, “Ha, ho, hum.

506
00:44:55,920 –> 00:44:57,080
We don’t believe any of this.”

507
00:44:57,080 –> 00:44:59,120
You know, they, they just blew him off.

508
00:44:59,120 –> 00:45:01,400
He’s still working, he’s still writing.

509
00:45:01,400 –> 00:45:05,488
He, he, his predictions are, um

510
00:45:06,640 –> 00:45:08,960
People call him too extreme.

511
00:45:08,960 –> 00:45:11,663.9999999995343
On the other hand, everything he predicts comes true.

512
00:45:12,180 –> 00:45:13,520
He’s a major

513
00:45:13,520 –> 00:45:19,824
He’s one of the foremost climate scientists in the world, and he was censored by the Obama administration.

514
00:45:20,500 –> 00:45:23,056
He, and so he resigned from the government.

515
00:45:24,080 –> 00:45:30,288
They wouldn’t publish his press re- they just, they wouldn’t publish his results, because his results were showing, you know

516
00:45:30,960 –> 00:45:37,870
So he resigned from the government so that he could sue the government on behalf of the next generation, so he joined

517
00:45:37,870 –> 00:45:39,660
His granddaughter was part of the suit.

518
00:45:39,660 –> 00:45:41,960
It’s still working its way through the courts.

519
00:45:41,960 –> 00:45:47,152
Um, a chil- the children brought a lawsuit that, “You’re stealing our future.”

520
00:45:47,720.0000000004657 –> 00:45:48,208
Hmm.

521
00:45:49,600 –> 00:45:58,980
And anyway, my play was based on Jim, Jim’s story and also the story of Jennifer Francis, who’s another major climate scientist, meaning I learned

522
00:45:58,980 –> 00:46:00,940
I read a lot of climate science.

523
00:46:00,940 –> 00:46:03,779.9999999995343
Like Greta Thunberg, I, I educated myself- Yeah.

524
00:46:03,779.9999999995343 –> 00:46:05,300
in climate science.

525
00:46:05,300 –> 00:46:08,220.00000000046566
She’s, you know, she’s, she really did

526
00:46:08,220.00000000046566 –> 00:46:12,600
And, and both Jim and Jennifer loved the play.

527
00:46:12,600 –> 00:46:13,980
We did it 3 times.

528
00:46:13,980 –> 00:46:14,640
We took it

529
00:46:15,490 –> 00:46:18,930
It, it never got to Broadway ’cause the censorship is, you know.

530
00:46:19,940 –> 00:46:23,250
completely, know.

531
00:46:23,250 –> 00:46:27,350
Um, money and power, you know.

532
00:46:27,910 –> 00:46:44,048
So, but we did take it to the Peri- Paris Climate Conference and we performed it in English and French 4 times in Paris as part of, there was an Art Cop which was a, an artist festival that, that was around the Paris Climate Conference.

533
00:46:44,790 –> 00:47:01,430
We stayed in the hostel with, um, the, the, uh, the civilian activists from all over, um, uh, the Native Americans and the tribe, tribal leaders from all over the world.

534
00:47:01,430 –> 00:47:14,256
And it was because of them, it was because of the civic society people who came to Paris that the Paris Climate Conference, they were gonna say, “We have to limit 2 degrees of warming.”

535
00:47:14,750 –> 00:47:24,330
But bec- we, we chanted, “1.5 to stay alive,” and they changed the agreement to 1.5 temperature rise.

536
00:47:24,330 –> 00:47:27,550
Of course, we’ve blown through that.

537
00:47:27,550 –> 00:47:29,090
Blown through it, totally.

538
00:47:29,090 –> 00:47:29,170
Yeah.

539
00:47:29,170 –> 00:47:51,930
And, and, but this is another example of, again, how the arts and alternative ways of connecting into this, you know, into this information like you said, like, you had to digest so much climate data in order to be able to create this play, and yet the play cuts through that need for so many people- Yeah, Jim, Jim-

540
00:47:51,930 –> 00:47:55,010
it gives them a- I’m sorry.

541
00:47:55,010 –> 00:47:55,800
No, it’s okay.

542
00:47:55,800 –> 00:48:08,310
Jim Hansen, he’s on our website, you can go visit this, Jim Hansen spoke to the audience after opening night, and then he’s interviewed and he says, um, “This play could reach a lot of people.

543
00:48:08,310 –> 00:48:10,390
It’s much more interesting.

544
00:48:10,390 –> 00:48:14,950
Frankly, the, the documentaries are just not very interesting,” he says.

545
00:48:14,950 –> 00:48:15,040
Right.

546
00:48:15,040 –> 00:48:25,648
“But this play, you know, i- it didn’t reach a lot of people because we never got it off, Off-Broadway because of the, the financial censorship.”

547
00:48:26,590 –> 00:48:27,610
Right, right.

548
00:48:27,610 –> 00:48:31,610
But like he said, this is the kind of thing that cuts and touches through people.

549
00:48:31,610 –> 00:48:31,619
Right.

550
00:48:31,619 –> 00:48:37,330
I went, I was in, uh, Broadway a few months ago, and the only, I’m, I’m a huge, like I said- Mm-hmm.

551
00:48:37,330 –> 00:48:39,450
love theater in all its forms.

552
00:48:39,450 –> 00:48:39,490
Uh-huh.

553
00:48:39,490 –> 00:48:42,559
Ended up only seeing one play which was Redwood.

554
00:48:42,559 –> 00:48:44,430
And I don’t know if you’ve heard of Redwood.

555
00:48:44,430 –> 00:48:50,510
It was produced, it was produced by Idina Menzel which is from, she was, you know, the original cast of Rent- Uh-huh.

556
00:48:50,510 –> 00:48:52,470.00000000046566
and the original cast of Wicked.

557
00:48:52,470.00000000046566 –> 00:48:56,930
And it’s basically the s- the s- the whole set is a redwood tree.

558
00:48:56,930 –> 00:48:57,130
Uh-huh.

559
00:48:57,130 –> 00:48:59,250
There’s a giant redwood tree in the middle- Uh-huh.

560
00:48:59,250 –> 00:49:12,590
and the entire story revolves around this woman who ends up kind of escaping her life and, and just drives off from, I don’t remember where, and ends up in the redwoods- Mm-hmm.

561
00:49:12,590 –> 00:49:15,150
in the redwood forest in California- Mm-hmm.

562
00:49:15,150 –> 00:49:21,210
and finds this giant redwood tree, I think the name of the tree is Luna in the end.

563
00:49:21,210 –> 00:49:35,105
And when she’s there, kind of, like, in her lost state and just kind of in awe of this beautiful being in front of her are these 2 scientists that are connected that are kind 0 that have been working in the redwood forest- Mm-hmm.

564
00:49:35,105 –> 00:49:38,210
and that are very connected to this tree end up coming into the scene.

565
00:49:38,210 –> 00:49:43,930
So the only, in reality there’s only 4 actors in the entire musical- Mm-hmm.

566
00:49:43,930 –> 00:49:48,150
and it all, and actually really 5 because there’s 4 human actors- 3.

567
00:49:48,150 –> 00:49:49,529.9999999995343
and then there’s Luna- Yeah.

568
00:49:49,529.9999999995343 –> 00:49:51,390
who’s in the middle of this.

569
00:49:51,390 –> 00:49:51,550
Yes.

570
00:49:51,550 –> 00:50:02,130
And it was wonderful to see a, a, a Broadway play in the Nederlander so, you know, we’re talking about like- Right.

571
00:50:02,130 –> 00:50:02,310
Right.

572
00:50:02,310 –> 00:50:04,060
real kind of perspective- Mm-hmm.

573
00:50:04,060 –> 00:50:04,370
Mm-hmm.

574
00:50:04,370 –> 00:50:07,390
to finally be about a tree.

575
00:50:07,390 –> 00:50:08,210
Like, really- Yeah.

576
00:50:08,210 –> 00:50:09,870
this tree was the center point.

577
00:50:09,870 –> 00:50:09,959
Yeah.

578
00:50:09,959 –> 00:50:24,420
Of course it had to be Idina Menzel who, who did this because, you know, she’s, but still- And it’s funny because I have never heard of this and partly it’s because I’ve been writing a memoir and I’ve been out, I haven’t been watching the theater.

579
00:50:24,420 –> 00:50:34,020
But I have close young friend in his 30s, um, who is produ- is trying to get a climate change play on Broadway.

580
00:50:34,020 –> 00:50:36,380
He’s producing a climate festival.

581
00:50:36,380 –> 00:50:40,600
Uh, he calls it The 6th Fest, after the 6th extinction.

582
00:50:40,600 –> 00:50:40,750
Mm-hmm.

583
00:50:40,750 –> 00:50:41,720
And he

584
00:50:41,720 –> 00:50:43,980
I don’t think he’s ever heard of this play.

585
00:50:43,980 –> 00:50:45,840
So- Yeah, it closed- Yeah, yeah.

586
00:50:45,840 –> 00:50:49,240
It closed, I think, in either May or June.

587
00:50:49,240 –> 00:50:49,540
Mm-hmm.

588
00:50:49,540 –> 00:50:53,640
But bicau- um, but it was r- it was, it was a spark.

589
00:50:53,640 –> 00:50:54,520
It was something.

590
00:50:54,520 –> 00:50:54,570
Yep.

591
00:50:54,570 –> 00:50:57,600
It was a door that opened into it.

592
00:50:57,600 –> 00:51:00,220
Of course, it had to have an element of humanity, you know.

593
00:51:00,220 –> 00:51:01,900
It was her grief and all these things.

594
00:51:01,900 –> 00:51:04,760
But there’s a few scenes, because most of the scenes are

595
00:51:04,760 –> 00:51:06,140
Because, um

596
00:51:06,140 –> 00:51:08,490
And it’s, it’s a very simple set to a certain extent- Mm-hmm.

597
00:51:08,490 –> 00:51:10,920
because it’s, um, mostly a video projection.

598
00:51:10,920 –> 00:51:10,950
In 3D.

599
00:51:10,950 –> 00:51:11,280
Mm-hmm.

600
00:51:11,280 –> 00:51:16,180
But the tree has all these different aspect, ’cause literally it’s just the trunk.

601
00:51:16,180 –> 00:51:18,795
The trunk of the tree is the middle of the stage- Mm-hmm.

602
00:51:18,795 –> 00:51:19,710
and that’s what everything is.

603
00:51:19,710 –> 00:51:19,730
Right.

604
00:51:19,730 –> 00:51:23,770
And then they have these harnesses which they go up, as if they’re going up into the canopy- Ah.

605
00:51:23,770 –> 00:51:24,680
Mm-hmm.

606
00:51:24,680 –> 00:51:25,800
and to live, you know, very

607
00:51:25,800 –> 00:51:29,570
It’s, um, based on the life of Julia “Butterfly” Hill- Ah.

608
00:51:29,570 –> 00:51:30,970
who lived in this tree- Lived in this tree.

609
00:51:30,970 –> 00:51:32,440
Luna for 2 years.

610
00:51:32,440 –> 00:51:32,700
Yeah.

611
00:51:32,700 –> 00:51:35,020
And so it’s based on that principle.

612
00:51:35,020 –> 00:51:35,060
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

613
00:51:35,060 –> 00:51:40,420
And I was just so excited that, again, here is this tree getting center billing.

614
00:51:40,420 –> 00:51:40,700
Yeah.

615
00:51:40,700 –> 00:51:43,780
And, you know, i- is it the best play in the world?

616
00:51:43,780 –> 00:51:44,520
No.

617
00:51:44,520 –> 00:51:45,500
Is, you know

618
00:51:45,500 –> 00:51:48,060
Are there things that I was like, “They should’ve hired me.

619
00:51:48,060 –> 00:51:49,710
I would have had them do-” Right.

620
00:51:49,710 –> 00:51:50,980
” this, this, and this differently?”

621
00:51:50,980 –> 00:51:51,020
This, this, and this.

622
00:51:51,020 –> 00:51:57,260
Because, you know, if the relatio- to really make the relationship with Luna more, you know, real

623
00:51:57,260 –> 00:51:59,960
But it’s an opening.

624
00:51:59,960 –> 00:52:02,740
It’s an opening to get these types of conversations.

625
00:52:02,740 –> 00:52:06,140
It didn’t go that much into climate, but it did, because it had to.

626
00:52:06,140 –> 00:52:06,790
I mean- Yes, right.

627
00:52:06,790 –> 00:52:11,440
the redwoods are getting lost, so you, you can’t ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist.

628
00:52:11,440 –> 00:52:14,420
There was logging considerations that happened- Mm-hmm, yes.

629
00:52:14,420 –> 00:52:16,900
so you could hear the loggers in the background.

630
00:52:16,900 –> 00:52:23,340
There’s all kinds of things of these topics, and I was just so happy to see that we’re finally starting to- Absolutely.

631
00:52:23,340 –> 00:52:30,260
kind of bring these harder, these, these current harder topics, because that’s what the theater has always done.

632
00:52:30,260 –> 00:52:33,520
I mean, from Virginia, from, from Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

633
00:52:33,520 –> 00:52:37,168
to, you know, so but all, so many- And also from the Greek, yes,

634
00:52:38,620 –> 00:52:43,200
So, so it’s really, really, really exciting to see that piece.

635
00:52:43,200 –> 00:52:51,060
And I g- I guess that’s another area of environmental justice, right, to use that voice and use that platform to really- Yes.

636
00:52:51,060 –> 00:52:55,560
bring to life things that maybe people will not watch on the news- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

637
00:52:55,560 –> 00:52:58,160
but they will watch if they go into a theater- Yes.

638
00:52:58,160 –> 00:52:58,860
to experience it.

639
00:52:58,860 –> 00:52:59,248
Yes.

640
00:52:59,840 –> 00:53:00,208
Yes.

641
00:53:01,400 –> 00:53:05,808
So- And of course, you know, you can’t imagine having poetry without nature.

642
00:53:06,400 –> 00:53:14,840
I asked, I asked this question in one of my plays, because I said, you know, um, “Will there be birds?”

643
00:53:14,840 –> 00:53:23,568
If, when the, when the world is Other Than We that takes place after the climate disaster, you know, and they’ve lost the ability to speak in me- metaphor.

644
00:53:24,220 –> 00:53:49,320
And when they escape from the dome where they’re all being captured and fed artificial air and fe- you know, it’s a whole controlled environment, and they escape out into the denuded but, but just recovering world, their language changes as well, and they begin to speak more poetically and deeper about themselves and everyone, because they have nature metaphors again.

645
00:53:49,320 –> 00:53:50,220
Yeah.

646
00:53:50,220 –> 00:53:50,260
Yeah.

647
00:53:50,260 –> 00:53:51,300
And, and we need this.

648
00:53:51,300 –> 00:53:52,180
I mean, it’s, it’s

649
00:53:52,180 –> 00:53:53,700
This is, these aren’t new topics.

650
00:53:53,700 –> 00:53:56,700
I mean, Ursula Gwe- Le Guin has been, you know, writing- Right, right.

651
00:53:56,700 –> 00:53:59,640
from the 1960s and ’70s about these- Right, that’s-

652
00:53:59,640 –> 00:54:00,860
you know, topics.

653
00:54:00,860 –> 00:54:03,000
That’s the early eco-feminist movement.

654
00:54:03,000 –> 00:54:03,696
She was a feminist.

655
00:54:04,180 –> 00:54:04,200
Exactly.

656
00:54:04,200 –> 00:54:14,864
And Octavia Butler too, the great, uh, Black writer who was writing climate change novels, you know, way back in the ’80s, you know, which are now totally prescient.

657
00:54:15,900 –> 00:54:19,579
uh, were totally prescient or now coming to, to reality.

658
00:54:19,579 –> 00:54:19,920
Yeah.

659
00:54:19,920 –> 00:54:21,740
I know, and, and I, and that’s

660
00:54:21,740 –> 00:54:24,960
My hope- People have always known this, you know?

661
00:54:24,960 –> 00:54:25,660
Right.

662
00:54:25,660 –> 00:54:27,640
From the very get-go.

663
00:54:27,640 –> 00:54:34,300
And, you know, one reason we are, uh, running off of fossil fuels is

664
00:54:34,300 –> 00:54:43,320
When, when, when the Industrial Revolution started in England, the power was hydro, was water, was water wheels.

665
00:54:43,320 –> 00:54:43,890
Right.

666
00:54:43,890 –> 00:54:48,140
And because of that, it was free, and it was non-centralized.

667
00:54:48,140 –> 00:54:59,779.9999999995343
And the, um, the, the , the businessmen, I don’t know how to call them, couldn’t control the workers because everybody could have a mill.

668
00:54:59,779.9999999995343 –> 00:55:08,048
Everybody could turn their spinning wheel y- using hydroelectric power, so they wanted to centralize the power source: coal.

669
00:55:08,930 –> 00:55:10,260
Coal became

670
00:55:10,260 –> 00:55:14,100
Because with coal, you can also control the workers.

671
00:55:14,100 –> 00:55:14,320
Right.

672
00:55:14,320 –> 00:55:16,336.00000000046566
They live right there, you know?

673
00:55:16,940 –> 00:55:19,920
So that, that’s, you know, started it.

674
00:55:19,920 –> 00:55:25,456
And of course, we could’ve powered the whole world off of hydroelectric and solar power.

675
00:55:26,240 –> 00:55:31,100
Um, you know, but it- He- Uh, we have a mill right down the street that’s being restored- Yeah.

676
00:55:31,100 –> 00:55:32,510
for exactly those reasons.

677
00:55:32,510 –> 00:55:34,000
Yeah, those 2 I mean, there’s so many pieces.

678
00:55:34,000 –> 00:55:36,752
Those 2 sources of power are available to everyone.

679
00:55:37,440 –> 00:55:38,170
Exactly.

680
00:55:38,170 –> 00:55:43,152
And so you can’t, you can’t create a working class if everybody is in control of their own labor.

681
00:55:43,900 –> 00:55:45,469
So it’s, it’s- Where do you see

682
00:55:45,469 –> 00:55:47,600
I mean, as you look at what the modern

683
00:55:47,600 –> 00:55:56,340
And, and as we start to wrap things up, as you look at kind of the modern, um, w- I would say theater scene from whatever it is that you’ve seen

684
00:55:56,340 –> 00:56:06,491
I, I had somebody contact me from New York that, um, he was really trying to figure out how to create a play connected to plants, but he was like-

685
00:56:06,491 –> 00:56:09,642
wanted to do it from the embodiment of a plant- Mm-hmm.

686
00:56:09,642 –> 00:56:12,152
and he was struggling, obviously- Mm-hmm.

687
00:56:12,152 –> 00:56:17,968
to not anthropomorphize, to not also seem like he’s kind of making fun of the plants.

688
00:56:18,832 –> 00:56:23,611
Could it be as easy as, like, being on stage and just being, you know?

689
00:56:23,611 –> 00:56:26,171
How do you, how do you represent sessileness?

690
00:56:26,171 –> 00:56:33,392
And there’s really interesting movements, and I’ve, I’ve read a lot of papers that are kind of trying to understand the whole

691
00:56:33,392 –> 00:56:35,371
this anxie- this entire movement.

692
00:56:35,371 –> 00:56:43,952
I know that, for example, Estado Vegetal, which was play that was written about, you know, being, being an embodied plant.

693
00:56:43,952 –> 00:56:45,312
It was really interesting- Oh.

694
00:56:45,312 –> 00:56:46,432
to see, how do you do it?

695
00:56:46,432 –> 00:56:46,871
Uh-huh.

696
00:56:46,871 –> 00:56:57,852
Because, of course, we all have these notions of movement, uh, that are very different from what that perspective is, and there are people who are trying to show plant agency- Yes.

697
00:56:57,852 –> 00:56:59,251
Yes.

698
00:56:59,251 –> 00:56:59,992
Mm-hmm.

699
00:56:59,992 –> 00:57:01,051
on the stage in art and through that.

700
00:57:01,051 –> 00:57:11,760
Where do you see kind of the eco-feminism, but also just ecology and general movement on in the, the creative arts, specifically, in playwriting, where do you see that going?

701
00:57:15,032 –> 00:57:17,751
Well, it can go in any number of directions.

702
00:57:17,751 –> 00:57:20,732
Um, it, it depends on the creator.

703
00:57:20,732 –> 00:57:22,192
I work with language.

704
00:57:22,192 –> 00:57:31,142
I write poetic plays, so l- y- you know, I, I also work with a lot of movement, and, uh, I told you about some of George’s trans- Mm-hmm.

705
00:57:31,142 –> 00:57:39,952
George was a transformational actor, so he could transform into anything, um, and that notion of transformation is really important.

706
00:57:39,952 –> 00:57:50,332
So when he be- he went from old, old linguist to owl in front of the audience, he, they didn’t know how it was done, and it was so beautiful.

707
00:57:50,332 –> 00:57:52,832
There are photos of it on our website, lots of them.

708
00:57:52,832 –> 00:58:00,772
Um, uh, you know, there’s that, being a transformational actor and working with poetic language, which was our thing.

709
00:58:00,772 –> 00:58:02,312
That’s what we did.

710
00:58:02,312 –> 00:58:03,272
We, we

711
00:58:03,272 –> 00:58:05,392
Our theater was based on those 2.

712
00:58:05,392 –> 00:58:13,808
You know, we were an activist, non-violent theater, poetic and, and, um, transformational.

713
00:58:15,631 –> 00:58:17,511
S- sort of showing change.

714
00:58:17,511 –> 00:58:17,932
I, I

715
00:58:17,932 –> 00:58:22,772
You know, one can only really talk about their own aesthetic, because everybody, you know

716
00:58:22,772 –> 00:58:23,412
Go for it.

717
00:58:23,412 –> 00:58:24,672
Do whatever, you know.

718
00:58:24,672 –> 00:58:25,212
Go for it- Right.

719
00:58:25,212 –> 00:58:26,576
in whatever way you can.

720
00:58:27,081 –> 00:58:50,319.99999999953434
Uh, but I did want to bring up the Bread and Puppet Theater, which, um, George was very good friends, uh, with Peter Schumann, and I’ve got, come to be, uh, know Peter a lot more since we scattered George’s ashes in the Bread and Puppet m- memorial grove in the Northeast Kingdom in, in northern Vermont, which is this stand of pine trees.

721
00:58:50,852 –> 00:58:52,11.999999999534339
Talk about trunks.

722
00:58:52,11.999999999534339 –> 00:58:55,072
So they go way up, and then up there, 50 feet-

723
00:58:55,072 –> 00:58:57,152
is the, you know, canopy.

724
00:58:57,152 –> 00:59:00,252
And this is the most embodied place.

725
00:59:00,252 –> 00:59:13,252
This has, the memorial grove has memorials to so many of our friends, Judith Malina, Grace Paley, uh, uh, Joel Kovel, who was an eco writer, and, uh, and on and on and on.

726
00:59:13,252 –> 00:59:14,752
Every- people have a

727
00:59:14,752 –> 00:59:28,712
And so that’s where I scattered George’s ashes, and he has his own tree, and his photo is nailed to his- the tree, and so is the hat that he wore in several plays, nailed to the tree.

728
00:59:28,712 –> 00:59:35,984
It’s a Irish cap, and, um, you know, I say in the memoir, George would have wanted to be a tree.

729
00:59:36,812 –> 00:59:38,132
George was a tree hugger.

730
00:59:38,132 –> 00:59:42,932
We would go into, into, um, Fort Green Park, which is our local park, but it was

731
00:59:42,932 –> 00:59:57,592
Our local park was designed by Walt Whitman and, um, Olmsted, the great park designer of Central Park, et cetera, and it had, it has huge old elms that were, are from the previous century, 100-year-old elms.

732
00:59:57,592 –> 01:00:05,776
And George would go up the hill and just throw his arms around a tree, and just stand there hugging the tree, you know.

733
01:00:06,352 –> 01:00:12,452
Um, he was an, you know, he was an eca- he was an ecologist, so, so the fact that he has

734
01:00:12,452 –> 01:00:21,359.99999999953434
And in this grove, you can feel the spirits of the people who are there, and I kind of, I write about this in the book.

735
01:00:21,900 –> 01:00:31,120
This grove has been embodied with the spirits of the nature lovers who are memorialized there.

736
01:00:32,140 –> 01:00:33,600
And it’s a really

737
01:00:33,600 –> 01:00:42,000
And even the young people who come to do apprentices with the Bread and Puppet Theater, who didn’t know any of these people, they say, “Oh, yeah, the grove.

738
01:00:42,000 –> 01:00:43,560
The grove is so magical.

739
01:00:43,560 –> 01:00:46,320
You can feel everybody’s spirit there.”

740
01:00:46,320 –> 01:00:47,280
And it’s true.

741
01:00:47,980 –> 01:00:49,120
Uh, you can.

742
01:00:49,120 –> 01:00:52,060
I mean, whatever you believe.

743
01:00:52,060 –> 01:00:53,072
Uh

744
01:00:53,730 –> 01:00:55,880
You know.

745
01:00:55,880 –> 01:00:58,000
I’ve loved this so much.

746
01:00:58,000 –> 01:01:00,976
George, George used, George used to say, “Nature is my god.”

747
01:01:02,220 –> 01:01:03,700
That’s a quote of his.

748
01:01:03,700 –> 01:01:06,300
I, I know that feeling so well.

749
01:01:06,300 –> 01:01:06,520
Mm-hmm.

750
01:01:06,520 –> 01:01:08,000
Like, that’s

751
01:01:08,000 –> 01:01:09,840
That’s, you know- Yeah.

752
01:01:09,840 –> 01:01:11,280
the core of it, right?

753
01:01:11,280 –> 01:01:12,780
That’s, that is where- Yeah.

754
01:01:12,780 –> 01:01:19,240
I mean, there are those that go into a physical, uh, location, like a church and something to, you know

755
01:01:19,240 –> 01:01:22,400
They need this man-made structure to commune with God.

756
01:01:22,400 –> 01:01:28,780
But for many of us, that sense of God, what is, that divine connection- Mm-hmm.

757
01:01:28,780 –> 01:01:30,460
is in the natural world.

758
01:01:30,460 –> 01:01:31,300
That, that’s it.

759
01:01:31,300 –> 01:01:31,380
We, we are.

760
01:01:31,380 –> 01:01:37,300
Every time I write the word dog, I mistype it and it comes out God.

761
01:01:37,300 –> 01:01:40,080
And then, and then I have to go back and correct it.

762
01:01:40,080 –> 01:01:42,640
But, you know- I love that.

763
01:01:42,640 –> 01:01:43,620
I love it.

764
01:01:43,620 –> 01:01:43,830
there you are.

765
01:01:43,830 –> 01:01:44,336
There you are.

766
01:01:45,986 –> 01:01:52,820
Karen, this has been such a wonderful, rich, enriching conversation.

767
01:01:52,820 –> 01:01:55,340
Are there any last words besides the fact

768
01:01:55,340 –> 01:01:56,240
Oh, wait, wait, wait.

769
01:01:56,240 –> 01:01:58,210
Before that, tell us

770
01:01:58,210 –> 01:01:58,620
Because

771
01:01:58,620 –> 01:02:01,570
Tell us the name of the book and

772
01:02:01,570 –> 01:02:03,750
Of your memoir and when it is gonna come out.

773
01:02:03,750 –> 01:02:06,600
Because I know that it’s coming out around the time that we publish this episode.

774
01:02:06,600 –> 01:02:11,240
Yeah, it’s called Last Radiance: Radical Lives, Ripe Deaths.

775
01:02:11,240 –> 01:02:12,300
That’s the subtitle.

776
01:02:12,300 –> 01:02:14,980
But Last Radiance is enough to get you to order it.

777
01:02:14,980 –> 01:02:17,619
If you type that into your search- Yes.

778
01:02:17,619 –> 01:02:18,580
uh, it will be available.

779
01:02:18,580 –> 01:02:22,280
It’s Vine Leaves Press, which is a nice eco name.

780
01:02:22,280 –> 01:02:23,510
Um, it’s a European

781
01:02:23,510 –> 01:02:32,120
It’s based in Europe, um, you can get the books from any bookseller or you can get them directly from Vine Leaves Press.

782
01:02:32,120 –> 01:02:38,720
Um, that will be out, and at the same time, my anthology of plays, which are written about in the memoir.

783
01:02:38,720 –> 01:02:41,160
So the 2 books really go together.

784
01:02:41,160 –> 01:02:46,700
Um, it’s coming out the same day, and that’s from Laertes, uh, Press- Perfect.

785
01:02:46,700 –> 01:02:49,360
which is a small press in, in this

786
01:02:49,360 –> 01:02:50,800
In the United States.

787
01:02:51,560 –> 01:02:55,520
And we will make sure that we put, you know, your website and the book titles- Great.

788
01:02:55,520 –> 01:03:00,300
and everything into the description so that people can reach you.

789
01:03:00,300 –> 01:03:03,769
Karen, I am just so appreciative of this conversation.

790
01:03:03,769 –> 01:03:18,520
And really, honestly, from the, from the depths of my eco-feminism heart, I am appreciative of everything you’ve done your entire not just career, but the way that you’ve lived your life and the example that you’ve been able to share with others.

791
01:03:18,520 –> 01:03:27,820
And thank you so much for that, because I think as a person who was radically changed in around her 30s, beginning of her 30s- Mm-hmm.

792
01:03:27,820 –> 01:03:31,900
thanks to reentering into this creative world- Uh-huh.

793
01:03:31,900 –> 01:03:36,700
and really seeing that there’s an entirely new, different way of living, I- Yes.

794
01:03:36,700 –> 01:03:40,940
playwrights, you know, the storytellers, the musicians, the artists- Yes.

795
01:03:40,940 –> 01:03:47,660
like, I bow down to you for continuing to live that art every single day.

796
01:03:47,660 –> 01:03:47,760
Mm-hmm.

797
01:03:47,760 –> 01:03:50,920
So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

798
01:03:50,920 –> 01:03:52,420
Thank you so much for having me.

799
01:03:52,420 –> 01:03:54,600
I’m so glad to know you.

800
01:03:54,600 –> 01:03:59,248
It’s been great to talk with you, and I hope we continue our conversation one way or another.

801
01:03:59,760 –> 01:04:02,740
I’ll show up on your doorstep with my laundry.

802
01:04:02,740 –> 01:04:04,060
Yes, exactly.

803
01:04:04,060 –> 01:04:04,460
Yes.

804
01:04:04,460 –> 01:04:05,910
You can come anytime-

805
01:04:05,910 –> 01:04:07,920
and I’ll, I’ll do a load of laundry for you.

806
01:04:07,920 –> 01:04:10,620
That’s an inside joke based on the conversation we had at the beginning.

807
01:04:10,620 –> 01:04:10,980
So

808
01:04:10,980 –> 01:04:16,860
But if you want to know more, for all of you that are watching and listening, please make sure you like and you subscribe.

809
01:04:16,860 –> 01:04:19,300
You go visit Karen’s website also.

810
01:04:19,300 –> 01:04:23,279.99999999953434
And if you want to have more conversations like this, you know where to go.

811
01:04:23,279.99999999953434 –> 01:04:25,230
It’s the Naturally Conscious Community.

812
01:04:25,230 –> 01:04:34,400
That is the place where we are bringing to life all of these discussions and embodying them, which I think has become, you know, the word of this episode.

813
01:04:34,400 –> 01:04:34,420
Mm-hmm.

814
01:04:34,420 –> 01:04:35,040
Yes, yes.

815
01:04:35,040 –> 01:04:36,790
Through our daily interactions- Mm-hmm.

816
01:04:36,790 –> 01:04:40,760
and our creation of a shared community and ecosystem.

817
01:04:40,760 –> 01:04:43,960
So come on down and be a part of it.

818
01:04:43,960 –> 01:04:45,380
And this, that’s it.

819
01:04:45,380 –> 01:04:47,536
So remember the most important thing.

820
01:04:48,140 –> 01:04:51,040
Resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

821
01:04:51,040 –> 01:04:51,820
That’s it.

822
01:04:51,820 –> 01:04:53,360
Bye.

823
01:04:54,402 –> 01:04:57,616
Thank- Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

824
01:04:58,140 –> 01:05:09,120
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious Community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with otherkin.

825
01:05:09,120 –> 01:05:18,512
Here, you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group.

826
01:05:19,160 –> 01:05:24,420
Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life.

827
01:05:24,420 –> 01:05:29,520
Intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli and Poinsettia from The Singing Life of Plants.

828
01:05:29,520 –> 01:05:33,140
That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia, and my plant collaborators.

829
01:05:33,140 –> 01:05:37,296
Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

830
01:05:37,920 –> 01:05:38,620
I’m out.

831
01:05:38,620 –> 01:05:39,198
Bye.