Ep.133 Emotional Liberation with Cannabis with Becca Williams

1
00:00:00,680 –> 00:00:02,200
Hello, hello, hello, everyone.

2
00:00:02,200 –> 00:00:05,280
Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

3
00:00:05,280 –> 00:00:06,896
It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

4
00:00:08,100 –> 00:00:09,860
How are you doing today?

5
00:00:09,860 –> 00:00:15,220
H- uh, i- it has been a very odd, um, it’s morning time for me, it’s been a very odd morning.

6
00:00:15,220 –> 00:00:19,360
I have very weird lighting, but, you know, that’s what happens this time of year.

7
00:00:19,360 –> 00:00:29,560
Luckily, I had a delightful conversation with Bekah Williams, and I’m very, very excited to share this with you.

8
00:00:29,560 –> 00:00:46,420
We went through so many aspects of emotions, and what it means to be kind of resilience, and cannabis, and, oh my goodness, there’s just so many different pieces.

9
00:00:46,420 –> 00:00:59,120
So, I’m excited to be able to share this with you, to bring it to you, because I feel like, so I have a difficult time sometimes trying to find the right, um, what’s the right word I’m

10
00:01:00,354 –> 00:01:09,480
Look, this, this podcast is all about relationships, all about relationships with plants, and how it is that those relationships with plants informs the way that we live our lives.

11
00:01:09,480 –> 00:01:11,824
That’s the part that I’m most interested in.

12
00:01:12,740 –> 00:01:29,800
And so, um, uh, I’m always looking to, and hopefully for you it’s, it’s working, that I, to get into that relationship that a per- specific person has with any given plant, or with plants as a whole, or with nature, or even with other beings of nature.

13
00:01:29,800 –> 00:01:33,320
I mean, we’ve talked about rivers, we’ve talked about fire, we’ve had all these things.

14
00:01:33,320 –> 00:01:40,176
It’s, it’s about how that connection with the natural world and the realization that you are nature really changes the way that you expect.

15
00:01:40,680 –> 00:01:50,960
And this part here gets into something that we feel is totally human, and yet I’m not so convinced that it is totally human.

16
00:01:50,960 –> 00:01:53,960
I feel like it can be partially human.

17
00:01:53,960 –> 00:01:55,760
Like, uh, I don’t know.

18
00:01:55,760 –> 00:01:57,820
It’s a really good question about it.

19
00:01:57,820 –> 00:02:01,880
So with that, I’m gonna let you decide how it is.

20
00:02:01,880 –> 00:02:04,090
I’d love to hear your thoughts in the show notes.

21
00:02:04,090 –> 00:02:21,020
And please, while I’m here, remember to like, subscribe, share, you know, all those types of things that let whatever it is that you’re listening to know that there are people that are very interested in this podcast and in what we have to say.

22
00:02:21,020 –> 00:02:26,140
Because that’s really which supports and what allows this podcast to continue forward.

23
00:02:26,140 –> 00:02:31,280
It is your support and also your comments, your comments, your questions.

24
00:02:31,280 –> 00:02:37,440
I love receiving comments and questions from you because I’m always so curious as to how you approach it.

25
00:02:37,440 –> 00:03:01,580
And given that this is a topic that’s a little bit harder sometimes for me to navigate, um, especially all of the work with, there’s a very fine line, very, very fine line between using plants as medicine, whether- whatever plant we’re talking about, whether we’re talking about, you know, cannabis like we are in this episode, or whether we’re talking about, um, fungi of all sorts.

26
00:03:01,580 –> 00:03:08,080
There’s a very, very fine line between just using and blindly using in order for escapism and all this stuff, and working with.

27
00:03:08,080 –> 00:03:11,260
And I’m looking always to find the working with.

28
00:03:11,260 –> 00:03:13,904.0000000000291
But I need your help to find where that line is.

29
00:03:14,520 –> 00:03:22,928
So the more feedback I get from you, the more questions I get, the easier it is for me to know what it is that you’re most interested when I have a wonderful guest like this today.

30
00:03:23,554 –> 00:03:25,260
So, that’s my little spiel for now.

31
00:03:25,260 –> 00:03:33,500
I’m gonna stop and I’m gonna introduce you to Episode 133: Emotional Liberation with Cannabis.

32
00:03:33,500 –> 00:03:35,998
And this is with Bekah Williams.

33
00:03:37,560 –> 00:03:40,120
Welcome to Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

34
00:03:40,120 –> 00:03:46,800
I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia, nature inspired mentor, certified life coach, and the founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.

35
00:03:47,360 –> 00:03:58,860
For over a decade, I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.

36
00:03:58,860 –> 00:04:06,340
In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wondrous ways of plants.

37
00:04:06,340 –> 00:04:16,16.000000000029104
Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

38
00:04:20,140 –> 00:04:21,560
Bekah, Bekah, Bekah.

39
00:04:21,560 –> 00:04:23,880
We’ve already been talking for about an hour, to be honest.

40
00:04:23,880 –> 00:04:26,680
We had all these things we wanted to get out of the conversation- Ah.

41
00:04:26,680 –> 00:04:30,200
but now we’re gonna get into the meaty part of the conversation.

42
00:04:30,200 –> 00:04:34,200
And I’m just so excited to share with everyone.

43
00:04:34,200 –> 00:04:37,406
But before we start, can you tell everybody, who is Bekah Williams?

44
00:04:38,280 –> 00:04:39,600
Well, I am Bekah Williams.

45
00:04:40,820 –> 00:04:48,200
And I, um, I’m, I’m what we call an emotions therapist, so I’m not a, um, a traditionally trained therapist.

46
00:04:48,200 –> 00:04:55,260
Um, I s- I focus on emotions, and we c- can talk a little bit, uh, more about that, but why do I do that?

47
00:04:55,260 –> 00:05:09,820
So I help people with emotional and trauma release, so I help, uh, stressed, stuck, traumatized people process and release self-defeating emotions and pain.

48
00:05:09,820 –> 00:05:20,020
Of course, I mean, emotional pain is huge, uh, so that they can effectively and gracefully handle any personal or interpersonal situation.

49
00:05:20,020 –> 00:05:25,104
And so the bottom line is that I support people in becoming emotionally resilient.

50
00:05:25,720 –> 00:05:35,870
And then, um, as I like to say, you know, we, we’re able to surf the waves of uncertainty with grace and perseverance, and that’s everything.

51
00:05:35,870 –> 00:05:46,860
And you know, you don’t start out d- it’s l- it’s like getting on a- on a surfboard and trying to surf, and you’re falling down all the time, but you keep doing it because you want to excel at this.

52
00:05:46,860 –> 00:05:57,700
So y- you want p- we all want to excel, or the people who come to me want to excel at emotional resilience, and so this is what it’s about.

53
00:05:57,700 –> 00:06:05,373
Um, i- you know, uh, emotional resilience in your personal relationships, um, your professional relationships, uh

54
00:06:05,373 –> 00:06:09,648
most importantly, your inner relationship with yourself.

55
00:06:10,304 –> 00:06:30,964
And just to, uh, throw it out- uh, throw it in the pot also, um, I- it- it- it helps preparing individuals, it helps individuals cultivate the inner clarity and psychological flexibility necessary to engage with psychedelic experiences in a meaningful, intentional way.

56
00:06:30,964 –> 00:06:53,563
So, if someone comes to me and says, “Um, I’m planning on- on, uh, doing a psychedelic, a macro psychedelic journey, you know, in a couple of months, 3 months,” whatever, so then we actually go about equipping that person, uh, strengthening their nervous system, letting them understand what they’re feeling and why they’re feeling it.

57
00:06:53,563 –> 00:06:55,724
And this is a practice, right?

58
00:06:55,724 –> 00:07:06,933
And, uh, and then to be able to have all of that and move into the, uh, the journey, uh, they, uh, in which, uh, journey is where you let the- the plant

59
00:07:06,933 –> 00:07:27,984.0000000000582
I- I work with psilocybin, you know, magic mushrooms, um, and also cannabis, um, but, um, in whatever people do, uh, whether it’s acid or MDMA or ayahuasca or whatever, uh, they let the plant have, uh, or the substance have their way with them, so people usually lay down, they have a covering over their eyes, and they move through this.

60
00:07:28,573 –> 00:07:49,344
And, uh, in- in working through the work I offer them and the support called emotional liberation, they have things coming up and they know, uh, uh, they- they- the plant is having their- the substance is having their way with them, but, um, uh, uh, they know that their fear doesn’t need to be there.

61
00:07:49,344 –> 00:07:52,623
Fear, anxiety does not need to be there.

62
00:07:52,623 –> 00:07:55,623
They’ll go, “Oh, look what’s coming up.

63
00:07:55,623 –> 00:08:00,724
It’s that anxiety that I experienced earlier in this training.”

64
00:08:00,724 –> 00:08:09,823
And so, uh, what I believe, if we’re just on this piece for the moment, is that nobody has to have a bad trip.

65
00:08:09,823 –> 00:08:16,583
You know, the- the line is historically, there’s no such thing as a bad trip, that they’re all productive.

66
00:08:16,583 –> 00:08:23,664
But, um, and- and- and in- uh, intimating that, yeah, you might have a really shitty, horrific trip-

67
00:08:23,664 –> 00:08:25,063
but it’s good, you know?

68
00:08:25,063 –> 00:08:26,083
It’s good.

69
00:08:26,083 –> 00:08:29,464
And I’m saying to people, “Y- you don’t need that.

70
00:08:29,464 –> 00:08:34,767.9999999999418
You don’t need to face that or handwring about that possibility.”

71
00:08:35,544 –> 00:08:36,193
So, there it is.

72
00:08:36,193 –> 00:08:38,744
There are so many things in there that I wanna unpack.

73
00:08:38,744 –> 00:08:42,104.00000000005821
I’m gonna go back to the beginning and then hopefully we’ll work our way through, ’cause I love this.

74
00:08:42,104.00000000005821 –> 00:08:50,964
There’s so many pieces that I wanna get into, especially because the episode right before this, I actually did an- uh, did an entire episode about grass.

75
00:08:50,964 –> 00:08:58,044
Grass, in this case, intending as your traditional prairie grasses and crabgrasses and grasses that grow in that way.

76
00:08:58,044 –> 00:08:59,924
And- and it was all about resilience, right?

77
00:08:59,924 –> 00:09:09,483
Like, grass as a mentor and a model to help you understand being trampled on and stepped on, and how it is that that can become something really amazing.

78
00:09:09,483 –> 00:09:16,464
But- so this- this concept of resilience I feel like is really important and, um, I

79
00:09:16,464 –> 00:09:34,844
but as you just said, sometimes there are things, that to become resilient, you need to be- you need to get in touch with certain aspects of yourself and learn how to work with those, release those, as you said, kind of take them from outside of yourself, place them so that you can look at them and understand them.

80
00:09:34,844 –> 00:09:44,074
I’m curious, in the work that you do, as you said, as that preparation for whatever it is that you might experience, where do you see

81
00:09:44,074 –> 00:09:46,223.99999999988358
uh, I’m trying to figure out the right way to word this.

82
00:09:47,144 –> 00:09:52,944
How do you see, like, this emotional container, this res- I guess, maybe let me ask it this way, an easy way.

83
00:09:52,944 –> 00:09:54,736
How do you define resilience?

84
00:09:56,962 –> 00:09:57,644
Oh.

85
00:09:57,644 –> 00:10:08,324
Well, I, um, I- I believe, uh, being resilient, uh, is being able to surf the waves of uncertainty with grace and perseverance, and what does that mean?

86
00:10:08,324 –> 00:10:09,944
Anything that comes up.

87
00:10:09,944 –> 00:10:11,223
If there is something

88
00:10:11,223 –> 00:10:24,304
you know, we’re going along and something, uh, comes up out of left field, somebody says something or somebody does something or you have this errant thought, and then you are triggered and you are off to the races.

89
00:10:24,304 –> 00:10:24,500
Right.

90
00:10:24,500 –> 00:10:36,940
And that may go down a path of fear and anxiety, depression, anger, sadness, um, uh, feeling needy, you know, uh, a lot of shame, self-doubt, guilt.

91
00:10:36,940 –> 00:10:46,320
So what we do in this work is when that thing comes up out of left field, instead of reacting, we respond.

92
00:10:46,320 –> 00:10:50,300
And we respond saying, “What, what is that?

93
00:10:50,300 –> 00:11:02,720
What, oh, you know, I f- I feel, I feel something coming up because that somethi- somebody said something or did something or I had this thought, and why was that?”

94
00:11:02,720 –> 00:11:22,120
And then we actually pull that thread or I teach people to pull that thread, and they’ll, “Oh, that’s coming up, uh, because,” um, I, I still wrestle with, with this, uh, Taggriola, uh, oftentimes, where, um, I perceive people disapproving of me or rejecting me.

95
00:11:22,120 –> 00:11:32,816
And so I can say, “Oh, that’s, that, that feeling, that unsettling feeling is because, ah, this, um, this, this person I was getting to know has totally ghosted me.”

96
00:11:33,590 –> 00:11:43,980
And so I have a history of reje- of, of rejection in my life and in my childhood, and so that little, that rears its little thorny head.

97
00:11:43,980 –> 00:11:47,580
But for me to be able to go, “Oh, I see that.

98
00:11:47,580 –> 00:11:48,940
Yeah, I see that.”

99
00:11:48,940 –> 00:11:59,940
And so then we have practices that are able to bring us back to the center and bring us back to a place of where we can just move on from there.

100
00:11:59,940 –> 00:12:01,140
That’s resilience.

101
00:12:01,140 –> 00:12:01,880
I love that.

102
00:12:01,880 –> 00:12:19,120
And, and that’s what I oftentimes, you know, there’s this, uh, entire movement in psychology called positive mental health, because every time we say the word mental health, we’re almost always referring to negative mental health, when in reality there is this entire positive mental health, and resilience is a very big part of that, right?

103
00:12:19,120 –> 00:12:24,960
Positive mental health means, it doesn’t mean I don’t experience moments of depression, it doesn’t mean I don’t get triggered.

104
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:28,160
It means though that I am able to deal with it.

105
00:12:28,160 –> 00:12:30,680.0000000001164
I’m able to know that I can deal with it.

106
00:12:30,680.0000000001164 –> 00:12:34,480
I know that I’m gonna be able to bounce back or I’m gonna be able to find my way through it.

107
00:12:34,480 –> 00:12:39,500
I have this inner trust because I’m actually overall in a good space.

108
00:12:39,500 –> 00:12:42,290
I am flourishing rather than languishing.

109
00:12:42,290 –> 00:12:56,819.9999999998836
And then I, from that flourishing state, I can go into the pits, into the darkness, into the shadows, into whatever it is that I’m experiencing in that moment, with the assurance, the inner assurance that I’m gonna walk out of it.

110
00:12:56,819.9999999998836 –> 00:12:59,040
And that’s that resilience that you just talked about, right?

111
00:12:59,040 –> 00:13:00,656
Of knowing that I’m gonna get into it.

112
00:13:01,420 –> 00:13:03,060
And that’s a perfect framing.

113
00:13:03,060 –> 00:13:07,240
And at the same time, that does not happen overnight.

114
00:13:07,240 –> 00:13:07,480
Absolutely.

115
00:13:07,480 –> 00:13:17,160
You know, we, we all have, uh, we know now, all of us have been traumatized cer- to a certain degree, either, uh, a little or a lot.

116
00:13:17,160 –> 00:13:21,880
And I, you know, look at it, um, on a, uh, uh, uh, on a scale.

117
00:13:21,880 –> 00:13:23,980
And, uh, and I was way down here.

118
00:13:23,980 –> 00:13:30,340
I mean, I had a lot of trauma growing up, uh, in a very dysfunctional family, and it was very dangerous.

119
00:13:30,340 –> 00:13:34,440
There was abuse involved, um, and unpredictability.

120
00:13:34,440 –> 00:13:40,700
Um, so I, I grew up, I went into adulthood, and I carried that with me.

121
00:13:40,700 –> 00:13:58,560
Now, there are others who, you know, I mean, we found that, um, maybe the parenting was wonderful and mom and dad were busy with something and the infant, uh, something happened and the infant started crying, and nobody came to comfort the infant.

122
00:13:58,560 –> 00:13:59,440
That’s trauma.

123
00:13:59,440 –> 00:14:02,420
That can be trauma depending on the individual.

124
00:14:02,420 –> 00:14:04,160
We are all so different.

125
00:14:04,160 –> 00:14:11,020
So what you have said and how you respond, how you learn to respond, can take a little or it can take a lot.

126
00:14:11,020 –> 00:14:11,300
Mm-hmm.

127
00:14:11,300 –> 00:14:13,580
And, um, and that’s okay.

128
00:14:13,580 –> 00:14:28,480
Uh, and, and the work that I do in emotional liberation, it’s a set of, um, uh, it’s a set of tools that we put into place so that we continually strengthen our nervous system while learning.

129
00:14:28,480 –> 00:14:34,460
So the nervous system, so when these insults come, we, we’re just not bowled over.

130
00:14:34,460 –> 00:14:49,680.0000000001164
Um, you know, I, I taught a, a class earlier this year, um, the Shift Network, which is the, uh, largest platform for wisdom teachers, asked me to teach a 7week course in, in regard to this a- and as, as it related to using cannabis as a tool.

131
00:14:50,300 –> 00:14:57,980
And so, you know, uh, when we’re calling up the, the, the difficult emotions through the

132
00:14:57,980 –> 00:15:08,960
Uh, and I, I also, uh, bring in Kundalini practices that stir up, it, it, it stirs up the trauma so that it can, so that we can actually invite it up.

133
00:15:08,960 –> 00:15:12,200
And, uh, and that is so close for a lot of people.

134
00:15:12,200 –> 00:15:26,720
The trauma is so close to the surface that even a l- slight breathing brings it up, and if we don’t have, if we haven’t, if we haven’t strengthened our nervous system, conditioned it to the point of where we can go, “Oh, here it comes.

135
00:15:26,720 –> 00:15:27,600
I feel it.

136
00:15:28,260 –> 00:15:29,328
I feel it.

137
00:15:30,540 –> 00:15:31,700
Okay.

138
00:15:31,700 –> 00:15:39,860
Oh, oh, it feels so awful but I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna let it come through,” as opposed to, “Ah, I can’t do it.

139
00:15:39,860 –> 00:15:40,969
I can’t.

140
00:15:40,969 –> 00:15:42,300
It’s, oh my god, I can’t do it.”

141
00:15:42,300 –> 00:15:54,420.0000000001164
So, you know, the difference in the 7week course for people were like that, and then at the end of the 7week course, they were writing me and, you know, they were talking to me in regard to how different it is.

142
00:15:54,420.0000000001164 –> 00:15:56,250
So it can happen quickly.

143
00:15:56,250 –> 00:16:03,527
The conditioning of the nervous system and the understanding of what we’re feeling and why we’re feeling it and giving names

144
00:16:03,527 –> 00:16:11,188
to, to these, you know, to, to, to these feelings is huge because we have not learned what we’re feeling.

145
00:16:11,188 –> 00:16:17,248
And that’s why at the beginning when I talk about what I do, I say, you know, “Stressed and stuck people.”

146
00:16:17,248 –> 00:16:18,527
Um, that’s, you know

147
00:16:18,527 –> 00:16:23,727
Stress is this term in our society that really has no real meaning.

148
00:16:23,727 –> 00:16:26,308
It’s a, um, it’s a mix.

149
00:16:26,308 –> 00:16:29,808
It’s a, an emo- emotional mix that we can’t like

150
00:16:29,808 –> 00:16:32,977
We don’t have the wherewithal to parse it through.

151
00:16:32,977 –> 00:16:40,268
“Yeah, you know, I’m anxious, and I have this self-doubt about me, and I get so angry, and, you know, I’m really sad.”

152
00:16:40,268 –> 00:16:41,107
But, but I

153
00:16:41,107 –> 00:16:43,828
You know, it’s like they- they’re not able to do that.

154
00:16:43,828 –> 00:16:47,248
It’s just, “I am so stressed,” or, “I feel so stuck.”

155
00:16:47,248 –> 00:16:52,078
So really being able to put names to it is vital.

156
00:16:52,078 –> 00:16:53,127.99999999988358
Mm-hmm.

157
00:16:53,127.99999999988358 –> 00:16:54,248
Yeah, and, and I

158
00:16:54,248 –> 00:16:55,127.99999999988358
As, uh

159
00:16:55,127.99999999988358 –> 00:17:15,726.9999999998836
What I love about, like, how you’re talking about it is also, it does take this kind of creation of a personal self-space, a personal safety around you to allow yourself to be in whatever it is that you’re experiencing so that you don’t, like you said, hold it back.

160
00:17:15,726.9999999998836 –> 00:17:29,418.00000000023283
Because that’s, that, I think, is really the number one self-inflicted trauma that people experience, which is, “Well, I’m just gonna have to, like, pretend it’s not there or hold back from it-” Yeah.

161
00:17:29,418.00000000023283 –> 00:17:31,868
” or, you know, put it into a box.”

162
00:17:31,868 –> 00:17:34,188
I hate all these types of terms.

163
00:17:34,188 –> 00:17:40,258
That really is the, “I’m not gonna deal with it now because I’m supposed to put on a straight face, or I’m supposed to be strong-” Correct.

164
00:17:40,258 –> 00:17:43,107
” or all these types of things,” which- Yeah.

165
00:17:43,107 –> 00:17:46,168.00000000023283
in reality is just a form of self-torture.

166
00:17:46,168.00000000023283 –> 00:17:51,407
It’s- Uh, uh, uh, it, it, it is, but, you know, it’s who we have surrounded ourselves around.

167
00:17:51,407 –> 00:17:51,828
Mm-hmm.

168
00:17:51,828 –> 00:18:01,068
Uh, uh, be- because if we’re starting to feel this healing and then

169
00:18:01,068 –> 00:18:11,638
Internally, and then we go out there, and we have the same toxic relationships, the same dead-end job that we really hate, it’s

170
00:18:11,638 –> 00:18:17,408
You know, one of my students called it, um, the, um, the shaken snow globe effect.

171
00:18:17,408 –> 00:18:39,888
And it’s like, “I, I, I know what I want,” or, “I thought I knew what I wanted,” and then they go out, and their partner is saying, and their family or the friends is like, “We don’t like this new you, um, because you’re being assertive, and you are drawing boundaries, and we need to be able to walk all over you, so stop it now.”

172
00:18:40,587 –> 00:18:49,127
And that’s where there’s a whole nother conversation to gorilla around, “What do I do when I’m actually awakening?”

173
00:18:49,127 –> 00:18:49,928
That’s the term.

174
00:18:49,928 –> 00:18:51,778
That’s the spiritual term.

175
00:18:51,778 –> 00:19:00,367
When I’m awakening, and I still have this stuff, uh, all these people in my life that has tur- certain toxicity.

176
00:19:00,367 –> 00:19:23,308
So then the next step is starting to sort it through, and then that can be a very lonely place because what happens is we’re dropping off those friendships that we used to have or that we thought were friends, or the, uh, the family of origin who we grow up in, uh, uh, we grew up with, and they’re just, you know

177
00:19:23,308 –> 00:19:25,048
They’re trashing us too.

178
00:19:25,048 –> 00:19:36,268
So we learn, uh, maybe we need to do an arm’s length distance from our family and, and, and, um, uh, uh, maybe move on from some of our friendships.

179
00:19:36,268 –> 00:19:45,328
And while we’re making that transition, it can be a very lonely, disconcerting place, so hence the shaken snow globe.

180
00:19:45,328 –> 00:19:45,568
Yeah.

181
00:19:45,568 –> 00:19:46,608
Um, and that’s, you know

182
00:19:46,608 –> 00:19:52,048
That’s really part of walking through what we call the dark night of the soul.

183
00:19:53,608 –> 00:20:03,918.0000000002328
Yeah, and this is, this is where I love, I love working with people to hold that space and to help them rebuild, to, to help them really rethink of, “Okay, who am I today?

184
00:20:03,918.0000000002328 –> 00:20:15,488
And who are, what are the relationships of all sorts that are going to support me on this part of the journey, that are gonna be enriching for me, that are actually even gonna challenge me at times?”

185
00:20:15,488 –> 00:20:18,508
Nobody says that everything has to be perfect.

186
00:20:18,508 –> 00:20:24,780
And how do I create the necessary relationships such as sometimes with family and such in a way

187
00:20:24,780 –> 00:20:30,960
can I build them in a way that is still enriching or at least safe for me?

188
00:20:30,960 –> 00:20:36,900
Or as you said, do I have to make the hard decision to walk away from some of those, uh, relationships?

189
00:20:36,900 –> 00:20:41,760
And as a person who’s had to walk away from some family relationships, it- of course it’s hard.

190
00:20:41,760 –> 00:20:44,520
It’s really hard and that’s why you shouldn’t do this alone.

191
00:20:44,520 –> 00:20:48,540
It could feel very, very lonely but you don’t to be alone.

192
00:20:48,540 –> 00:20:54,000
There are like, this is, there are people like me who want to be there to hold your hand- Yeah.

193
00:20:54,000 –> 00:21:05,120
to hold that space, to let you be a sounding board and to create a new community that is going to support this person that you’ve become.

194
00:21:05,120 –> 00:21:11,170
And I feel like it’s just, it’s so important to let people know that this is that process.

195
00:21:11,170 –> 00:21:21,720
And it’s okay ’cause to- to- to break off or like to, um, remove all those veils that we have and to remove all that conditioning, you need to question everything.

196
00:21:21,720 –> 00:21:25,140
You need to be able to give yourself that permission to question everything.

197
00:21:25,140 –> 00:21:29,040
Like, “Huh, do I actually like it when that person talks to me in that way?

198
00:21:29,040 –> 00:21:37,460
Is that way, is that something that I, you know, need to correct or is it something that I need to adapt to or is it something that I can just accept as it is?

199
00:21:37,460 –> 00:21:40,340
Like what is it that this- I’m supposed to do with it?”

200
00:21:40,340 –> 00:22:02,900
And the healthier you get, the more confident you get in your own emotions and in feeling all of the feelings, the easier that process is but it still requires you to give yourself that time and that space to like go through because society tells us all kinds of things like, “Don’t treat- don’t let yourself be treated this way, don’t let this person talk to you in this way.”

201
00:22:02,900 –> 00:22:06,860
Nature instead has so many other kinds of relationships- Mm-hmm.

202
00:22:06,860 –> 00:22:21,280
and when you evaluate each relationship on its own, it really does help you understand what your emotions and what your body and what your environment is telling you, “This is what’s good for me.”

203
00:22:21,280 –> 00:22:25,820
Not what society tells you, not what somebody else tried to teach you.

204
00:22:25,820 –> 00:22:30,090
I- I hate to say this but mom and dad weren’t always so great about teaching you right from wrong.

205
00:22:30,090 –> 00:22:37,940
They might have taught you what’s right from wrong for them, but what they should have been teaching you or what hopefully they did teach you is how do you find what’s right or wrong for you?

206
00:22:37,940 –> 00:22:40,920
How do you discover piece of it?

207
00:22:40,920 –> 00:22:41,340
Yeah.

208
00:22:41,340 –> 00:22:51,760
I’m- And- a- a- and you know, in my- in my work one of the- one of the emotions that we work with is really not thought of as an emotion for, uh, most people and that is desire.

209
00:22:51,760 –> 00:22:52,139.99999999976717
Mm.

210
00:22:52,139.99999999976717 –> 00:23:07,120
And desire, uh, is the mother, uh, of all emotions because we need to start out with wanting something and, uh, you know, like, um, “Oh gee, I- I need to, uh, write so I’m gonna pick up this pen.

211
00:23:07,120 –> 00:23:09,630
I have a desire to write so I’m gonna pick up this pen.”

212
00:23:09,630 –> 00:23:14,896
Or “I have a desire for a healthy, respectful, loving relationship.”

213
00:23:16,020 –> 00:23:17,620
It’s not as easy as picking up a pen.

214
00:23:17,620 –> 00:23:19,540
How do I go about it?

215
00:23:19,540 –> 00:23:19,720
Right.

216
00:23:19,720 –> 00:23:32,780
And, um, and- and so when, uh, as you have pointed out, you know, the parents will say, “Well, um, uh, this is what we want, uh, this is what we want so that you need to tow the line for us.”

217
00:23:32,780 –> 00:23:37,480
And so, uh, no one ever invited me to ask me what I desire- Mm-hmm.

218
00:23:37,480 –> 00:23:39,300
and, you know, anger is part of that.

219
00:23:39,300 –> 00:23:47,960
As a child it’s like, something that makes you angry, you’re re- you’re- you’re sifting out what I want and what I don’t want but parents don’t want you to be angry.

220
00:23:47,960 –> 00:23:48,900
“You be cute.

221
00:23:48,900 –> 00:23:58,620
You- you know, you say cute things and be happy and playful, um, but if you get angry, uh-uh, we don’t, we don’t want any of that.”

222
00:23:58,620 –> 00:23:59,360.00000000023283
Exactly.

223
00:23:59,360.00000000023283 –> 00:24:09,480
Um, so it’s, uh, it- it- it- i- i- it’s no wonder we don’t know what we want or, uh, what we want or how to go and get it.

224
00:24:09,480 –> 00:24:18,660
And so what you’re talking about in all your wise words, um, is- is- is really resetting one self to do that.

225
00:24:18,660 –> 00:24:20,969
Yeah, and that full range of emotion.

226
00:24:20,969 –> 00:24:23,000
And that’s- that’s the por- That’s the portal to happiness.

227
00:24:23,000 –> 00:24:23,760
Absolutely.

228
00:24:23,760 –> 00:24:39,340
And I’m glad that you brought up desire because I do think, um, in addition to like the full range of emotions that you are mentioning and how important it is for you to learn both the constructive and the deconstruct- the destructive parts of every emotion which are not good and bad.

229
00:24:39,340 –> 00:24:43,900
Constructive and descript- and destructive do not amount to good and bad.

230
00:24:43,900 –> 00:25:02,820
They amount to 2 polarities, 2 useful tools that once you understand how the emotion works, you can figure out where to apply them because you could be constructive and in certain environments that’s actually toxic because what you should be doing is destroying that piece.

231
00:25:02,820 –> 00:25:10,000
So it’s really important to get that range, and I- I love that you were talking about that, and also the fact of desire because it has gotten a bad rap.

232
00:25:10,520 –> 00:25:15,020
The idea of I’m not supposed to want anything and it’s like well, no.

233
00:25:15,020 –> 00:25:17,680
Damanhur actually has a class on how to desire.

234
00:25:18,400 –> 00:25:18,410
Ah.

235
00:25:18,410 –> 00:25:30,980
It’s part of an, uh, an advanced level of like that we teach which is learning that desire is the first step necessary for a magician to be able to create in the world of form.

236
00:25:30,980 –> 00:25:35,840
You have to, as you said, you have to want it, you have to desire it so that you bring it into form.

237
00:25:35,840 –> 00:25:47,880
That doesn’t mean that there’s a, there’s an odd conversation to be had about attachment and about the form and about all kinds of stuff but desire is a really important emotion that most of us are conditioned out of.

238
00:25:47,880 –> 00:25:59,920
Like it’s okay for some people to desire certain things but don’t desire it too much and “Oh, don’t be thinking about money because then that is gonna make you arrogant,” and “Don’t desire like success and visibility because that’s gonna say that”

239
00:26:00,450 –> 00:26:01,755.9999999997672
please, please.”

240
00:26:01,755.9999999997672 –> 00:26:03,856
It’s like, “No, it’s not helpful.”

241
00:26:03,856 –> 00:26:13,996
I am curious as to, in this work, what led you to working with plants and fungi, because, you know, there’s lots of avenues that you could take in order to get there.

242
00:26:13,996 –> 00:26:17,735.9999999997672
But obviously, my question is always, like, who was whispering in your ear?

243
00:26:17,735.9999999997672 –> 00:26:20,796
When did cannabis say, “Hey, stop just smoking me for fun.

244
00:26:20,796 –> 00:26:23,416
I could actually be useful for something else”?

245
00:26:23,416 –> 00:26:24,264.99999999976717
Ah, yes.

246
00:26:24,264.99999999976717 –> 00:26:28,496
That- Which is really what, which is really what she does, like she has this thing with people

247
00:26:28,496 –> 00:26:34,036
I have already talked to so many people who it’s like, got to tap on their shoulder and like, “Stop just smoking me for fun.

248
00:26:34,036 –> 00:26:35,716
I got other shit to do.

249
00:26:35,716 –> 00:26:37,584
I need to work with you in other ways.”

250
00:26:38,296 –> 00:26:38,996
Yeah.

251
00:26:38,996 –> 00:26:50,036
Uh, so, uh, interestingly, I had, uh, I have had a relationship with her, cannabis- And back then we used to call her marijuana, right?

252
00:26:50,036 –> 00:26:52,556
And then that was drummed out of the

253
00:26:52,556 –> 00:27:06,216
Uh, and, you know, I have, um, there, there was a woman who has passed, uh, but she wrote, uh, sh- uh, she wrote a few books on, on, um, cannabis and spirituality and, uh, cannabis and, and, and yoga.

254
00:27:06,216 –> 00:27:13,816
And we would have these long, enduring conversations, and she, uh, said, you know, “I, I don’t like the, I don’t like the word ‘cannabis’.”

255
00:27:13,816 –> 00:27:18,445
She said, “It’s too clinical, too straightforward, whereas marijuana”

256
00:27:18,445 –> 00:27:21,796
And if you, you know, uh, if you pull that thread around marijuana, it would

257
00:27:21,796 –> 00:27:23,876
That was the whole drug war-

258
00:27:23,876 –> 00:27:30,395
making up stuff about this prejudice and, um, uh, bigoted, you know, using, uh, ma- marijuana.

259
00:27:30,395 –> 00:27:33,255.99999999976717
I mean, uh, uh, the, the, uh

260
00:27:33,255.99999999976717 –> 00:27:46,576
I’ve, I’ve done videos on this and, uh, marijuana, uh, is, uh, uh, was a, uh, was it a Spanish, beyond Spanish term, and then it just, and, and then it, uh, it came to be marijuana.

261
00:27:46,576 –> 00:27:46,956.0000000002328
And she

262
00:27:46,956.0000000002328 –> 00:27:51,316
And, and marijuana, she always said had a, had a magical feel to it.

263
00:27:51,316 –> 00:27:54,945
It was really, um, the essence of the plant.

264
00:27:54,945 –> 00:27:58,786
And I love that, but in my work as a clinician, I can’t use the word-

265
00:27:58,786 –> 00:28:00,156
“marijuana.”

266
00:28:00,156 –> 00:28:07,996
Um, so just, just know that when I say “cannabis,” I, I wish that I could be talking about, um, uh, marijuana.

267
00:28:07,996 –> 00:28:08,836
And also, I

268
00:28:08,836 –> 00:28:12,735.9999999997672
You know, and you probably have some real feelings about the word “weed”-

269
00:28:12,735.9999999997672 –> 00:28:14,176
uh, as far as all plants.

270
00:28:14,176 –> 00:28:16,616
You know, it’s like, “That plant is a weed.

271
00:28:16,616 –> 00:28:17,816
Okay, you’re not.

272
00:28:17,816 –> 00:28:18,476
You’re acceptable.

273
00:28:18,476 –> 00:28:19,696
Yup, another weed.”

274
00:28:19,696 –> 00:28:19,916
You know?

275
00:28:19,916 –> 00:28:28,478
And so of course, the reference to cannabis oftentimes is weed, and it’s like, “No, she’s not a weed,” you know?

276
00:28:29,346 –> 00:28:30,235.99999999976717
stay away from that.

277
00:28:30,235.99999999976717 –> 00:28:50,456.00000000023283
But I had, uh, studied with, uh, Meher Kalsa for 4 years around emotional liberation and became a facilitator and, uh, and, uh, prior to that in studying with him, in the first year-long program I had with him on emotional liberation, I was with a cohort of, of, of, uh, 11 other people.

278
00:28:50,456.00000000023283 –> 00:28:52,396
It was 12 of us all together.

279
00:28:52,396 –> 00:29:03,435
And I found that my work with this process was accelerated when I, um, when I applied the thoughtful use of cannabis to it.

280
00:29:03,435 –> 00:29:04,196
Not very much.

281
00:29:04,196 –> 00:29:12,255.99999999976717
It was very important to have just a, a low level, because if you get stoned, um, or too high, you lose the benefits of it.

282
00:29:12,255.99999999976717 –> 00:29:20,136
So I had told, uh, I had told Meher that I, I, I did this, and he said, “Well, you know, you do what you, you want.”

283
00:29:20,136 –> 00:29:20,316
Yeah.

284
00:29:20,316 –> 00:29:24,156
Uh, ’cause I felt, I felt it was important that I, that I put it out there- Yeah.

285
00:29:24,156 –> 00:29:25,616
but I, I don’t do that.

286
00:29:25,616 –> 00:29:37,616
So from this experience, I, I realized in, in being with the, the others in this online course that my process seemed to be ac- accelerated with the plant medicine.

287
00:29:38,415 –> 00:29:46,156
So when I started teaching this, um, in, um, in, in groups, and I always like to teach it in groups, and this one was

288
00:29:46,156 –> 00:29:54,831.9999999997672
Uh, it was al- uh, I always teach it with plant medicine, so the cannabis, so a lot of plant lovers, um, and cannabis plant lovers, uh, engage with me on that.

289
00:29:55,775.9999999997672 –> 00:30:05,056
And, and they also had accelerated, uh, ac- accelerated, uh, um, eh, uh, what do I wanna say?

290
00:30:05,056 –> 00:30:09,255.99999999976717
Um, uh, healing, uh, accelerated healing.

291
00:30:09,255.99999999976717 –> 00:30:14,516
They had accelerated healing, uh, because, I believe, of the cannabis.

292
00:30:14,516 –> 00:30:20,444
Um, so then, uh, eh, we know that trauma, from research, resides in the body.

293
00:30:20,444 –> 00:30:24,220
It resides in the nervous system, it resides in the tissues of the body.

294
00:30:24,220 –> 00:30:40,320
But, you know, from a yoga perspective, we also believe in the energetic body, the emotional body, and, uh, truly, uh, that’s where, uh, y- where the trauma also, um, also resides, I, I do believe.

295
00:30:40,320 –> 00:30:49,600
And so, what I found in my own work was, and I, as I mentioned earlier, I came from a, a, a deeply traumatizing background in childhood.

296
00:30:49,600 –> 00:31:03,760
I had a lot of deep trauma, and it wasn’t coming up, uh, I, I, I, I hit a plateau, I felt, and so I started microdosing with psilocybin, magic mushrooms.

297
00:31:03,760 –> 00:31:13,000
So microdosing, um, um, small, um, small amounts that don’t put you, you don’t feel like you’re under the influence of anything.

298
00:31:13,000 –> 00:31:22,790
Things are, are, are brighter and, and you might be more open, but it’s not like, “Oh, I’m actively hallucinating or under the influence.”

299
00:31:22,790 –> 00:31:36,660
So I started teaching that also, but for my own personal practice, I started, uh, uh, microdosing, and it actually took me up to the next level of processing and release.

300
00:31:36,660 –> 00:31:50,896
And so, heretofore, I, uh, I, I use, uh, I incorporate both plants, uh, as tools in my work, um, uh, microdosing, you can say microdosing cannabis and psilocybin.

301
00:31:51,580 –> 00:31:57,260
And so that brings us up to, uh, up to the current status of what I’m doing.

302
00:31:57,260 –> 00:31:58,040
And have you

303
00:31:58,040 –> 00:32:03,000
I’m, I’m so curious, so, um, I’m, I’m probably gonna ask a few provocative type questions.

304
00:32:03,000 –> 00:32:13,420
But, um, for example, somebody here in Damanhur who obvi- before c- becoming a Damanhurian, was somebody who also worked very closely with cannabis, mostly by smoking.

305
00:32:13,420 –> 00:32:25,460
And, um, afterwards, he decided to try and experiment, um, through some of the work that he was, his personal development work that he was doing, to actually listen to the music of cannabis.

306
00:32:25,460 –> 00:32:33,049
So he had a cannabis plant and he used the Music of the Plants device, which is a device that allows, uh, the plants to make music.

307
00:32:33,049 –> 00:32:42,180
And he used the Music of the Plants device to, um, to allow cannabis to connect with him through that mechanism.

308
00:32:42,180 –> 00:32:42,320
Mm-hmm.

309
00:32:42,320 –> 00:32:52,780
And he actually had very interesting resp- s- such, such that his response and the, the results that he ended up having, he said, “You know, I don’t, I don’t need to smoke cannabis anymore.”

310
00:32:52,780 –> 00:32:55,040
Not to say anything, there’s nothing wrong with smoking cannabis.

311
00:32:55,040 –> 00:32:55,720
That wasn’t my point.

312
00:32:55,720 –> 00:32:58,720
My point was just like, I’m curious as to

313
00:32:58,720 –> 00:33:06,760
I’ve had multiple people on the show that also work with both microdosing and with other types of medi- um, with other different medicinal plants.

314
00:33:06,760 –> 00:33:12,090
I’m just curious as to how much now, as you’ve now worked with cannabis for such a long time- Mm-hmm.

315
00:33:12,090 –> 00:33:13,630
are you

316
00:33:13,630 –> 00:33:18,530
um, have you been able to consciously like bring cannabis into the conversation?

317
00:33:18,530 –> 00:33:29,840
In other words, what is the relationship you feel like you have, particularly then we can talk about your work, ’cause I’m, I’m kind of curious for yourself, where, how is cannabis

318
00:33:29,840 –> 00:33:33,008
How are you and cannabis like working together on this?

319
00:33:34,434 –> 00:33:34,480
Mm-hmm.

320
00:33:34,480 –> 00:33:41,520
Well, so it goes counter to the, the framework that we have out there, out there- Yeah.

321
00:33:41,520 –> 00:33:46,720
in culture and society, where there is, there’s recreational cannabis- Mm-hmm.

322
00:33:46,720 –> 00:33:51,480
or adult use as we call it now, because recreation sounds too much like children in the playground.

323
00:33:51,480 –> 00:33:52,420
Uh, and then medical.

324
00:33:52,420 –> 00:33:54,840
I like being a child on the playground.

325
00:33:54,840 –> 00:33:57,200
I don’t wanna be a child on a playground.

326
00:33:57,200 –> 00:34:00,609
Yeah, you, you just don’t want to encourage children to, to do that.

327
00:34:00,609 –> 00:34:01,700
So we- That is a true statement.

328
00:34:01,700 –> 00:34:02,660
I’m good with that.

329
00:34:02,660 –> 00:34:04,280
So, uh, so we call it adult use.

330
00:34:04,280 –> 00:34:04,840
Adult use.

331
00:34:04,840 –> 00:34:08,480
Um, and, uh, and, and then, and then medical cannabis.

332
00:34:08,480 –> 00:34:11,620
But the truth, uh, and, and spirituality.

333
00:34:11,620 –> 00:34:17,179.99999999976717
So the truth of it is, is that it’s all, if you will, medical.

334
00:34:17,179.99999999976717 –> 00:34:32,784
Um, you know, um, the first wave, I like to say we’re in the third wave of cannabis, so the first wave was, um, you know, uh, get high and go out and be in nature and go walk or giggle or whatever, be lighthearted.

335
00:34:33,300.00000000023283 –> 00:34:44,420
And then medical, uh, there was the second wave of if, you know, here’s what ails me, so th- here, cannabis will, uh, will repair that or heal us from it.

336
00:34:44,420 –> 00:34:49,080
And the third one, in which I roam, uh, is, is spiritual.

337
00:34:49,080 –> 00:34:51,600
So, cannabis and spirituality.

338
00:34:51,600 –> 00:35:07,540
Um, and, uh, and, and, and, and for me, I, I see that that takes on different dimensions, uh, depending on whether I want to be outward or inward.

339
00:35:07,540 –> 00:35:27,200
And when I do this work, I encourage people to go inward, because what we’re doing is focusing inwardly, and it’s really a training ground, uh, Tabrella, as in, uh, absolutely, I can do this without the plant medicine anymore.

340
00:35:27,200 –> 00:35:41,540
Um, I like, I like to have that, that feeling, uh, with cannabis, um, and, uh, and, and so I often do it with her, um, or, or microdosing.

341
00:35:41,540 –> 00:35:50,380
Now I haven’t microdosed for a while, um, but I’m really, you know, talk about emotionally resilient, uh, that’s where I am.

342
00:35:50,380 –> 00:35:58,940
And, and, you know, when as teachers, and I’m sure you, you would agree with this, we are on a spectrum of growth, just like everybody else.

343
00:35:58,940 –> 00:36:04,220.00000000046566
Um, you know, uh, uh, I may be here and somebody else may be here.

344
00:36:04,220.00000000046566 –> 00:36:10,140
That allows me to be an effective teacher for them because I’m teaching them to move here.

345
00:36:10,140 –> 00:36:19,484
And there’s always others who will be-You know, more, what do I wanna call, awaken or enlightened, uh, further down here.

346
00:36:19,484 –> 00:36:42,800
Uh, but when we work with the emotions and become resilient around them, we, I- I- I think enlightenment, and of course, that’s all left to speculation, but I truly believe enlightenment is about emotional resilience, that whatever comes up, whatever comes up to hit me, I can just surf that wave and move on.

347
00:36:43,573 –> 00:36:50,943
And even, um, uh, even the Dalai Lama has talked about what he said sometimes.

348
00:36:50,943 –> 00:36:55,804
Sa- as you have pointed out, around emotions, these emotions are important.

349
00:36:55,804 –> 00:36:59,984
You know, we’re never sad about losing something that we don’t love.

350
00:37:00,663.9999999995343 –> 00:37:00,744
Right.

351
00:37:00,744 –> 00:37:31,724
And so it’s very important for us to say, “Oh, I am so sad that that person, that animal, that, uh, that thing is gone in my life,” and we need to note that the reason why we are grieving is because we loved it, and loving, that’s why we’re here on this earth, is in my belief system, is to learn how to love first ourselves.

352
00:37:31,724 –> 00:37:43,920
We can do it at the same time as we’re, you know, we’re learning to love ourselves, we can also become stronger in learning to love others in a very, in a very innocent pure form.

353
00:37:44,844 –> 00:37:50,284
Um, so, um, uh, I- I digressed, um, and lost my train of thought.

354
00:37:50,284 –> 00:37:53,424
Uh- It’s all good.

355
00:37:53,424 –> 00:37:57,424
I think, I, and I, and I, and I do, there are so many elements here.

356
00:37:58,123 –> 00:38:01,424
I mean, I- I definitely agree with everything that you’ve said in that perspective.

357
00:38:01,424 –> 00:38:14,384
I mean, each one of us needs to find our path, and I find, um, when I did, uh, I interviewed, um, Sarah Russo, who did, who wrote, uh, a graphic novel called The Herbs of the Apocalypse- Mm-hmm.

358
00:38:14,384 –> 00:38:20,294
and she works very closely with cannabis on this book, and also kind of- Because of her, because of her father-

359
00:38:20,294 –> 00:38:21,082
is Dr. Russo.

360
00:38:21,082 –> 00:38:23,183
I forget his first name, but I interviewed him.

361
00:38:23,183 –> 00:38:23,643
Yeah.

362
00:38:23,643 –> 00:38:23,794
Mm-hmm.

363
00:38:23,794 –> 00:38:42,344
Uh, and so we were talking very much about, like, you know, this relationship and how some of these types of plants, she works very closely with po- um, poppy also and with coca as, on that land, more of a spiritual connection, where for cannabis it was more of a direct relationship.

364
00:38:42,344 –> 00:39:00,190
And she was talking about how, you know, these 3 plants that have been ostracized by society in so many ways, like, who have so many benefits, so many ways that they want to work with humanity, and yet are still such powerful plants, are plants that have such a, um

365
00:39:01,761.9999999995343 –> 00:39:03,243
Here, let me say it this way.

366
00:39:03,243 –> 00:39:08,272
I’m gonna, I’m gonna jump on a limb here, but I’m gonna say something that I think I hadn’t put together in this quite this way.

367
00:39:09,243 –> 00:39:40,384
I feel like these kinds of plants have the ability to help humanity through some of, of human- humanity’s strongest, most gaping holes in s- that they have, has an opportunity to get into there in a way that’s not painful, in a way that is soothing, and unfortunately, our human desire for a quick fix, going back to that concept,

368
00:39:40,384 –> 00:39:44,404
means that rather than seeing the blessing of

369
00:39:44,404 –> 00:39:46,064
It’s kind of like anesthesia.

370
00:39:46,064 –> 00:39:47,004
Right?

371
00:39:47,004 –> 00:39:52,784
I can have a, I can be operated on because I take an anesthetic of some sort.

372
00:39:53,324 –> 00:39:53,864
Right?

373
00:39:53,864 –> 00:40:16,958
I am able to get the benefits of what is being done to me in a, in a surgical setting, for example, the opening, the, the, the changing of a heart, the, whatever it is that might be done in that surgical setting because I have this, you know, anesthetic that runs through my body that allows me to numb the pain enough for the work to be done.

374
00:40:17,894 –> 00:40:20,470
And I think that’s what you’re tapping into there.

375
00:40:20,470 –> 00:40:24,920
It is working with cannabis in the way that you’re working it, or cybacillin.

376
00:40:24,920 –> 00:40:26,380
Well, let’s talk cannabis first.

377
00:40:26,380 –> 00:40:26,440
Yeah.

378
00:40:26,440 –> 00:40:34,290
Allow that kind of sharp pain that you might feel when you go into this trauma-type work to be a little softer.

379
00:40:34,290 –> 00:40:45,440
And if you do it exactly the way that you were talking about, this small, kind of almost microdosing, let’s go a- and use that term for cannabis, it has this effect of like, “Hey, don’t be afraid.

380
00:40:45,440 –> 00:41:06,256
We’re gonna take away the sharp, sharp pain of this so that you can then feel a little bit more comfortable of saying, ‘Okay, I’m gonna go in and explore,'” kind of like I don’t feel the sharp pain of a cut across my stomach or chest or wherever it is, and a doctor is able to then go in and, like, touch your organs and, you know, repair things and do things.

381
00:41:07,240 –> 00:41:16,440
So I feel like if we allow these plants to do that, we have this incredible benefit afterwards.

382
00:41:16,440 –> 00:41:22,928
Plus many of these plants have been with us and have all these different things that they als- they want to show us in this process.

383
00:41:23,740 –> 00:41:29,720
If instead you go the opposite way and say, “Look, I don’t want to deal with this stuff.

384
00:41:29,720 –> 00:41:37,744
I’m just gonna numb myself out,” uh, same as, you know, an anesthetic that I continuously do, then you’re never gonna get to the healing.

385
00:41:38,420 –> 00:41:51,200
And I think that this is a really important concept, that is all of these plants are here to show you different ways, and they don’t want to make you, like, just feel pain for the sake of feeling pain.

386
00:41:51,200 –> 00:42:05,280
So to a certain extent, whether we’re talking about, you know, cannabis or we’re just talking about chamomile tea, right, which is still comes from a plant, there is a soothingness so that then I can show you more clearly what you need to see.

387
00:42:05,280 –> 00:42:10,180
I’m gonna just take the edge off for a second, and then I’m gonna give you space to do the work.

388
00:42:10,180 –> 00:42:15,600
And it doesn’t really matter if you’re using cannabis or cannabis 0 or, or, or chamomile tea, right?

389
00:42:15,600 –> 00:42:20,380
Depends on what your body needs, how your body reacts to it, how your body is moving through it.

390
00:42:20,380 –> 00:42:26,300
And I think we need to stop demonizing any one specific plant or fungi or anything.

391
00:42:26,300 –> 00:42:37,380
And then you take, on top of that, the fact that these intelligent beings, again, whether we’re talking about cha- uh, chamomile, or whether we’re talking about cannabis, or whether we’re talking about cybacillin, have this

392
00:42:37,380 –> 00:43:03,680
You know, psilocybin has this way of, of also then showing you a picture, helping you from that state of calm to see things that you haven’t been able to see clearly without the jerk reaction that you might experience in the, the kind of waking world because you are in a traumatic state.

393
00:43:03,680 –> 00:43:11,300
And I think it’s just important for us to recognize, like, where do these beings want to work with us and which is the right being for you?

394
00:43:11,300 –> 00:43:28,912
For you, as you’ve, you know, developed this, you’ve had this relationship, you’ve, you’ve chosen this plant and this fungi because they have a relationship with you, because you know how to work with them, because they help you understand the dosing, how it is, how long to use it, all these types of things.

395
00:43:29,740 –> 00:43:31,960
For somebody else, it might be chamomile tea, right?

396
00:43:31,960 –> 00:43:33,380
It might be mint.

397
00:43:33,380 –> 00:43:36,360
It might be, you know, go out and spend some time with rosemary.

398
00:43:36,360 –> 00:43:37,420
It might be whatever.

399
00:43:37,420 –> 00:43:37,744
That’s

400
00:43:38,430 –> 00:43:40,700
It’s almost like you’re, you’re being a

401
00:43:40,700 –> 00:43:42,660
It’s like choosing your teacher.

402
00:43:42,660 –> 00:43:44,260
Some teacher is gonna be cannabis.

403
00:43:44,260 –> 00:43:48,380
Some people are gonna feel like a teacher is better, you know, aloe or whatever.

404
00:43:48,380 –> 00:43:53,160
And just the same as a human teacher, find that combination that works for you.

405
00:43:53,160 –> 00:43:55,500
That is the most important piece.

406
00:43:55,500 –> 00:44:05,968
I agree, and it reminds me of how I teach the use of cannabis in this work, because if, if people

407
00:44:06,480 –> 00:44:08,780
So we have t- we have ideal

408
00:44:08,780 –> 00:44:10,100
You know, we have terpenes.

409
00:44:10,100 –> 00:44:13,580
Uh, there’s a science around terpenes, which are the- Yep.

410
00:44:13,580 –> 00:44:17,480
uh, the oils, essential oils, and that’s coming along.

411
00:44:17,480 –> 00:44:23,200
But in order to understand, y- uh, like a, like a wine sommelier, you can actually smell it- Mm-hmm.

412
00:44:23,200 –> 00:44:28,120
and understand what the terpenes are in it, but that, that’s kind of advanced.

413
00:44:28,120 –> 00:44:35,740
So what I like to work with for regular people are the 2 cannabinoids, THC and CBD.

414
00:44:35,740 –> 00:44:41,560
And CBD is very important because it relaxes the fight or flight response.

415
00:44:41,560 –> 00:44:41,790
Yeah, very sympathetic.

416
00:44:41,790 –> 00:44:53,420
So if we are, uh, if we’re doing this work and we’re calling up emotions ca- uh, the CBD can come in and just, just quiet everything down so that we can do that.

417
00:44:53,420 –> 00:44:57,630
Now, the THC amplifies the emotion so that we can work with it.

418
00:44:57,630 –> 00:45:02,520
So when you put those 2 together, it’s, it’s a very powerful synergy.

419
00:45:02,520 –> 00:45:11,760
Now, some people who have the trauma that’s so close, I just suggest they start with the, the CBD, just the CBD, because the, the

420
00:45:11,760 –> 00:45:15,960
They don’t need to, to tease out the emotion because it’s right there.

421
00:45:15,960 –> 00:45:18,608
We need to figure out what it is and why it’s coming up.

422
00:45:19,240 –> 00:45:23,360
Um, but the CBD will, um, will allow that.

423
00:45:23,360 –> 00:45:31,800
The other piece I wanted to say to, um, to what you were talking about is that, uh, people use cannabis

424
00:45:31,800 –> 00:45:39,279.99999999953434
Cannabis works in all kinds of ways, and one of them is, I think you even used the word numb, numbing.

425
00:45:39,279.99999999953434 –> 00:45:54,480
So if we are so overwhelmed by our life, and, you know, this is, um, uh, this is sort of a stereotypical from, you know, the ’60s and ’70s where people would just get, you know, you see somebody sitting down in the basement and getting stoned out of their mind.

426
00:45:54,480 –> 00:45:56,980
Well, what’s wrong with that?

427
00:45:56,980 –> 00:46:08,016
What I like to say is that, that there’s something in their lives where they just have to settle in and whatever it might be to, um, uh, to, uh, uh, uh-

428
00:46:09,038 –> 00:46:30,992
cannabis, in that instance, kind of embraces them, like cocoons them, while they’re, um, w- working through this, maybe at a very- on a very mystical level even, and then she allows them- she can move back and allow people to move into another realm of their life when- when they’re ready.

429
00:46:32,008 –> 00:46:37,588
Now having said that, I do not like the high-dose cannabis.

430
00:46:37,588 –> 00:46:41,188
They’ve turned it into, I call it crack cannabis- Yeah.

431
00:46:41,188 –> 00:46:47,068
where it’s 30% THC or whatever, so you just get as out of it as you can.

432
00:46:47,068 –> 00:47:17,168
But the beautiful part about cannabis is unlike- unlike, uh, prescription meds and- uh, uh, and other- other drugs, uh, that have lasting hangovers- I mean, you know, uh, SSRIs, uh, uh, uh, change your neural chemicals and so when you’re- uh, when you’re ready to get off an SSRI, doctors can put you on it, but they have no idea how to, um, uh, how to taper you off of

433
00:47:17,168 –> 00:47:17,768
them.

434
00:47:17,768 –> 00:47:30,788
I mean, that’s a big deal, uh, with people who are on mood managing medication, that, “I think I’m ready- I- I think I’m ready to get off it,” well then, they don’t have anybody to turn to to help them get off it.

435
00:47:30,788 –> 00:47:35,948
But when you’re talking about cannabis, it’s like, you know, there are no side effects.

436
00:47:35,948 –> 00:47:42,628
I mean, you just- you- you- y- you move beyond that and you’re okay and you can do whatever you want.

437
00:47:42,628 –> 00:47:47,228
People have, uh, come to me during my training and said, “I- would this be okay for me?

438
00:47:47,228 –> 00:47:50,608
I’ve had a- I don’t- I don’t have a relationship with cannabis anymore.

439
00:47:50,608 –> 00:48:02,788
I have a fraught relationship with cannabis, uh, because, you know, I- I got- uh, I go- had- be- become dependent on it, and it- and I- and- and is it okay if I use cannabis then in this practice?”

440
00:48:02,788 –> 00:48:18,148
And I say, you know, “Uh, move forward with wisdom, and you’re with me, and I will support you in this, and maybe it’s just CBD to begin with, or maybe you wanna get used to the practice of emotional liberation, all that that involves.

441
00:48:18,148 –> 00:48:27,868
Learn what you’re feeling and why you’re feeling it, do the- th- the practices so that we can start doing this, and then start bringing in, uh, some- some cannabis.”

442
00:48:27,868 –> 00:48:38,328
I always highly recommend doing the work once or twice before you ever bring in any kind of plant medicine and th- because you need a base.

443
00:48:38,328 –> 00:48:46,668
You need- um, you need a- a base from which to go, “Oh, it was like this when I tried it, and then when I added the cannabis, oh, it was like this.

444
00:48:46,668 –> 00:48:48,592
It was like this,” or whatever.

445
00:48:49,308 –> 00:48:54,748
Yeah, and I think that that’s- those really wise words, especially because it’s a relationship.

446
00:48:54,748 –> 00:48:55,628
It’s a relationship.

447
00:48:55,628 –> 00:48:57,048
You’re bringing another- Yes.

448
00:48:57,048 –> 00:49:17,348
teacher into this, and I think that that- that is the difference between- l- you had said it earlier when we were just talking, uh, we were- before we started recording, and we were talking about the difference between running away from something versus running toward something, and, um, and that’s something that I- I think about a lot, like are you running away versus running toward?

449
00:49:17,348 –> 00:49:24,112
And if you’re using an- uh, any kind of plant as a running away, it literally is just as a using.

450
00:49:24,708 –> 00:49:33,008
If instead you’re running towards, then the relationship can develop, and you can start to hear the actual message of the plant within this work.

451
00:49:33,008 –> 00:49:34,228
So at this point- Mm-hmm.

452
00:49:34,228 –> 00:49:37,168
you’re working not with one teacher, not one human teacher.

453
00:49:37,168 –> 00:49:57,888
You’re working with one human teacher and one plant teacher or one fungi teacher, and it really brings that ulterior voice, that- that 0 otherness which also is really great because when we think about emotions in particular in the kind of work that you’re doing, you know, as humans, we have again all these set definitions.

454
00:49:57,888 –> 00:49:59,468
You had talked about it earlier.

455
00:49:59,468 –> 00:50:00,508
Anger is bad.

456
00:50:00,508 –> 00:50:04,968
As a child don’t express your anger and only cry in certain situations.

457
00:50:04,968 –> 00:50:07,148
That’s bad to do in other situations.

458
00:50:07,148 –> 00:50:13,488.00000000046566
That’s a sign that something is wrong with you if you get too, you know, overcome by sadness or blah, blah.

459
00:50:13,488.00000000046566 –> 00:50:25,360
All these bullshit pieces that drive me crazy sometimes, and yet plants who have some form of emotion, we don’t know what those are exactly, don’t have those definitions.

460
00:50:25,360 –> 00:50:29,200
So when they step into the picture of something like what you’re talking

461
00:50:29,200 –> 00:50:41,840
Plus, I’m still convinced that the original trauma we’re all suffering from is separation from nature, so anything that brings nature back into the- into this is great because I think that that’s the original trauma that most people are suffering from.

462
00:50:41,840 –> 00:50:44,040
The moment we stopped realizing we weren’t

463
00:50:44,040 –> 00:50:48,240
you are nature, everything started to look a little differently and

464
00:50:48,240 –> 00:51:06,352
But so, so the idea of like bringing in and walking towards a plant partner in this, walking towards whether you might not be ready to be able to have a dialogue with cannabis in a, in a way like the way I dialogue with any plant or cannabis of such.

465
00:51:07,586 –> 00:51:31,000
But by using this kind of safer mechanism, smoking, then I start to enter into a relationship with you, and I am giving you permission to come into my process and be another co-teacher on this and work with me in this way and show me, like you said, your wisdom, and also give me that dosage like maybe

466
00:51:31,000 –> 00:51:36,680
And the moment I’m think I’m going too much, which means escapism, okay, dial that back, ’cause that’s not useful.

467
00:51:36,680 –> 00:51:38,180
That’s running away.

468
00:51:38,180 –> 00:51:39,660
Okay, when am I bringing it in?

469
00:51:39,660 –> 00:52:09,699
So I think these are really important factors for people to think about a little bit as they’re working with this is like you’re opening yourself to a relationship with another being who doesn’t have any judgment on your feelings, who doesn’t think about you in one way, shape, or form, who doesn’t worry about your status symbol or what other people think of you or any of these types of pieces, is instead a safe companion who is a part of you because you are nature and who’s holding the space and who’s showing you alternative ways to look and

470
00:52:09,699 –> 00:52:10,800
experience the world.

471
00:52:12,194 –> 00:52:12,688
Beautiful.

472
00:52:13,320 –> 00:52:14,400
Well said.

473
00:52:14,400 –> 00:52:15,320
Yeah.

474
00:52:15,320 –> 00:52:19,920
And so, B- Bekah, as we, as we wind this up, tell everybody, where do they find you?

475
00:52:19,920 –> 00:52:22,060
How- how- h- how do the people find you?

476
00:52:22,060 –> 00:52:22,700
Sure.

477
00:52:22,700 –> 00:52:26,980
Well, speaking of plants, I have been, uh, bloody and bruised-

478
00:52:26,980 –> 00:52:29,200
over the years of using social media-

479
00:52:29,200 –> 00:52:46,500
because even though my work is around education and the plants, any word about cannabis to begin with, um, you, w- we, and, you know, there’s, there’s countless, uh, accounts and people who have been shadow banned or banned outright- Mm-hmm.

480
00:52:46,500 –> 00:52:52,489
or, ju- I, uh, always invite everybody, uh, to really to just come to my website.

481
00:52:52,489 –> 00:52:53,480
And it’s so easy.

482
00:52:53,480 –> 00:53:05,100
It’s my name dot-org, bekahwilliams.org, and you can find out everything there that you need to know about my work, how to, uh, how to go about engaging with it.

483
00:53:05,100 –> 00:53:15,880
I, I regularly, um, am doing cannabis elevation ceremonies online, and I do that complimentary, so, um, it’s just, uh, my gift to the community.

484
00:53:15,880 –> 00:53:19,920
Uh, but if you wanna work with me in a group, I have that availability.

485
00:53:19,920 –> 00:53:26,880
I do retreats, and it’s all, uh, uh, it’s all described at my website, bekahwilliams.org.

486
00:53:26,880 –> 00:53:36,300
Perfect, and I will make sure that, of course, I include that in the show notes so that people and all people can find you and can reach out to you and get your works.

487
00:53:36,300 –> 00:53:38,600
Bekah, this has been a delightful conversation.

488
00:53:38,600 –> 00:53:42,930
I am so grateful for everything that you’ve shared and the work that you’re doing.

489
00:53:42,930 –> 00:53:43,320
Mm-hmm.

490
00:53:43,320 –> 00:53:45,730
And I’m, I’m excited to hear as it develops.

491
00:53:45,730 –> 00:53:48,800
Plus, you know, I hear that you might be coming to visit Damanhur.

492
00:53:48,800 –> 00:53:49,990
Yeah, I- I- I’m-

493
00:53:49,990 –> 00:53:51,640
thinking about that, yeah.

494
00:53:51,640 –> 00:53:52,820
I like that.

495
00:53:52,820 –> 00:53:52,910
That would be wonderful.

496
00:53:52,910 –> 00:53:55,000
And, and, and of course there’s always Being Festival too.

497
00:53:55,000 –> 00:53:56,100
And there’s Being Festival.

498
00:53:56,100 –> 00:53:56,680
I love it.

499
00:53:56,680 –> 00:53:57,000
I love it.

500
00:53:57,000 –> 00:53:57,680
It’s perfect.

501
00:53:57,680 –> 00:53:59,580
And for everybody who’s listening, please go.

502
00:53:59,580 –> 00:54:21,320
Go to the show notes, check out Bekah’s work, and, and of course if you want to talk more about this or if maybe you’re on the other side of this trauma work that you’ve done and you’re looking to start to integrate all the principles and all of what you’ve learned about yourself into your daily life as you rebuild these connections and these ecosystems, please feel free to reach out to me, and you can find me a- as always

503
00:54:21,320 –> 00:54:21,740
You know me.

504
00:54:21,740 –> 00:54:22,560
I’m all over the place.

505
00:54:22,560 –> 00:54:31,529.9999999995343
Just look for my name and also the Naturally Conscious Community, which is the place where we continue to have these types of conversations and hold this space in community.

506
00:54:31,529.9999999995343 –> 00:54:33,560
And so for that, we- we’ve did it.

507
00:54:33,560 –> 00:54:39,980
We- we we- finished another episode, but always remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

508
00:54:39,980 –> 00:54:40,816
Bye, everyone.

509
00:54:42,200 –> 00:54:45,488
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

510
00:54:46,020 –> 00:54:57,060
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious Community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with otherkin.

511
00:54:57,060 –> 00:55:06,384
Here, you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group.

512
00:55:07,042 –> 00:55:12,320
Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life.

513
00:55:12,320 –> 00:55:17,420
Intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli and Poinsettia from The Singing Life of Plants.

514
00:55:17,420 –> 00:55:21,020
That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia, and my plant collaborators.

515
00:55:21,020 –> 00:55:25,168
Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

516
00:55:25,800 –> 00:55:26,500
I’m out.

517
00:55:26,500 –> 00:55:27,070
Bye.