Ep.134 Imagination Connects What’s Been Divided with Mark Firehammer

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Hello, hello, hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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It’s me, Tigrilla Gardenia.

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You’ve probably noticed, uh, just how divided things feel lately.

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I don’t know about where you are, but definitely I’m feeling

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I’m, I’m lucky, I live in community and we have all these mechanisms.

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But still, between people, between ideas, even between us and the world we depend on, it really just feels like there is so much pressure.

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But one of the things that I’ve been exploring, and, you know, you’ve heard me talk about this before, if

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what if, kind of, if you wanna think about it, the medicine that we need in order to heal that divide, that division, isn’t really trying to get your point across or more effort, but instead, what if, what if, what if, play with me here, it’s imagination?

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Because c- contrary to what we’ve been taught, imagination isn’t escape, you know, this whole idea that we’re just sitting in la-la land.

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In reality, m- imagination is how life weaves itself back together.

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It’s the way a forest grows and, you know, everyone collaborating without needing permission.

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It is, we try different things, we imagine what it could be and we let our imagination root back into the living system, and that is what changes.

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The more we dream of it, the imagine it, play with it, create it in our minds, the more then we can create things in the physical world.

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And remember that creativity isn’t just something we do;

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it’s really how the planet thinks through us, right?

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We, we are creative expressions of things.

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So, in today’s episode, I’m joined by multi-passionate Mark Firehammer an author, a musician, a creative visionary and the founder of the Creative Humanity Alliance, who believes in imagination can rebuild our shared humanity.

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I love this concept so much.

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Together we explore how creativity becomes connection, how art becomes activism and how seeing ourselves as part of nature can restore both our relationship and also our resilience.

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So, I want you to just grab yourself a hot beverage if you’re living in a place that’s cool, or a cool beverage if you’re living in a place that’s warm, take a nice breath, you know, give yourself some space, and I want you to really listen for the spaces between art worlds

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our words

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words.

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Ever have any of those words that every time you try to say it, you always either say it or spell it wrong?

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I try to w- write the word planet and I always end up in plant, or I try to write anything that has pla in it and I always end up in plant .

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And so, what I meant to say was, I want you to really listen for the space between our words.

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I feel like this is one of those episodes that you hear and the enthusiasm and the excitement of what Mark is and everything Mark has to offer, but also the fact that, you know, No Name Dracaena over here, if you’re watching the video, is, um, also “speaking” in his own way, which is through movement.

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So, this is really an episode where imagination grows wild.

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So, with that, here’s my conversation with Mark Firehammer in Episode 134: Imagination Connects What’s Been Divided.

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Welcome to Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

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I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor, certified life coach and founder of the Naturally Conscious Community.

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For over a decade, I’ve been known as a world ambassador for plant advocacy, working closely with plants to share their practical wisdom to help you consciously embody the elements of life that nourish your evolution.

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In this podcast, I delve into ancient and modern knowledge, from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways of plants.

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Together, we’ll explore how ecosystem thinking helps you overcome limiting beliefs, understand the true nature of relationships, and live an authentic, impactful life.

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Hello, Mark.

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I am

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Well, as we just said, I’m excited, you’re excited, we’re excited.

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I am already, like- My head is full of excitement .

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Exactly, there’s all this excitement.

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I am really actually looking forward to this conversation and getting into everything that you are and do and participate in.

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So

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But before we start, like, can you just share with everybody, who is Mark Firehammer?

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You know, I love that you ask it in that way, uh, because I’m gonna answer it differently than almost everyone else I hear.

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F- who I am is the name I was given, I’m, I’m Mark Firehammer.

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. And as we talked pre-show, that name never really fit me, even as a little kid.

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I’m like, “I don’t know.

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It’s a cool name.

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Everybody comments on it, but I don’t really feel like a Feuerhammer, which is why I chose, when I released my novel, to be a Kindbloom, J.W.

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Kindbloom, but you can call me Mark Firehammer.

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Okay.

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Uh, but who I am is not at all what I do.

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I, I, I feel like I’m a 63-year-old version of 4yearold me.

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Right ?

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63-year-old version of 4yearold me.

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I rejected the notion, as a child, that you have to grow up.

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Yep.

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“Grow up, son.

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You gotta grow out of that.

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Don’t be such a baby.

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Don’t

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You know, that’s, that’s not practical.”

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So, who I am is the guy that, as a child, said, “I love wha- who and what I am.

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I love that I can sit out on a snow mound in, you know, uh, late April, early May as a 4yearold and wait for the tulip to come up through the snow as the first sign, and have a conversation with that, with that tulip.”

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AndI never let that go, and that’s really who I am.

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And the way I like to put it is most of the people that I know, they’re behind a veil, and that veil was put upon them by culture and civilization ’cause there’s so many expectations that are put on us.

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And I refuse to recognize, even acknowledge that veil.

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I love that because

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So I’m somebody also who n-never really grew up.

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Um

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Mm-hmm.

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I have, I get asked

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Even just a few days ago, I was asked by somebody as they were talking to me and I was telling them about my experiences and, you know, what I’ve done in the world, and they just looked at me- Yeah.

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and I get this question all the time after somebody meets me for a little bit and they’re like, “I’m sorry, how old are you?”

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And then I tell them, and they’re like, “No, no, that doesn’t make sense.”

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Like-

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you’re, that’s l- like 10 or 15 years more than they think.

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And I- Yeah.

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don’t think because, you know, at first you’re all flattered.

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You’re like, oh, it’s because I look great.

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I mean- Right.

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besides- I’m doing skin.

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Exactly.

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I take care of myself.

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But really, it’s, it’s exactly that piece, that feeling of I, I know I’m gonna be the, you know, 80-year-old dressed in flamboyant clothes with a giant hat that’s going down the street, you know, like, you know, as a, as g-

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super bold in that aspect, and I find that that part of it is, that, that is nature’s renewal in so many- Yeah.

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aspects, right?

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That’s that part that I feel like that’s that part plantness that’s, like, constantly renewing and therefore always has, always has a young part somewhere, right?

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There’s always a young shoot somewhere that’s there.

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There’s always some aspect of yourself that’s young and that it’s got there.

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How do you think that that affects, like, for you personally, how do you feel that that sort of f- being so in touch with that aspect of yourself, that youth inside of you, and that part of you that feels like, “You know what?

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It doesn’t really matter.

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I can always do what I need to do and feel that curiosity?”

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How do you- Yeah.

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think it changes the way that you approach things?

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Well, y- you said a very key word for me is the renewal part- Mm-hmm.

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is that when one chooses to look at the world and their place in it, and even the universe if you wanna go that far, the, the idea of renewal and being connected with it all is that you are in the natural cycle of things.

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And, you know, like I said when I was a little boy, I always looked forward to that first flower to come up.

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Like, uh, um, what is the line?

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I wrote 4 lines of poetry when I was seven, and the first line is, “They don’t ask the snow if it’s okay.

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They don’t wait for the sun to say, ‘Go play.’ They just come up red and bold through chilly dirt that still feels cold.”

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Wow, that’s

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7?

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7?

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7, n- I didn’t fin- I think I was still eating much mud pies at 7.

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Like

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I didn’t finish that poem until I was 40.

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Right?

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33 years later I finished the poem ’cause it had a home at that point.

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So to get to the answer of your question, that is the common thread for me is the renewal.

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That flower, without fail, every year, and as early as I can remember, I was there for it.

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Right?

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I was there for it, and if I didn’t show up, that would’ve been the first moment when I let go of my own opportunity to maintain my connection, whether I’m conscious of it or not, of that renewal and that cycle.

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I mean, I count, I’m 63, so I just entered my ninth seven, and so I’m all about the cycles.

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And if I track back my sevens, I started something new and fresh at the beginning of every 7.

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So does that kinda answer your question about- Absolutely.

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the year?

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Absolutely.

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And, and I’m really curious n- now as I was thinking about your poem and even the se- well, the sevens we’re gonna get into in a minute ’cause that’s- Yeah.

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a very kind of big aspect.

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We talked about, about, about that a lot here in Dom & Her.

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We even have a hall that’s dedicated to that kind of, it has, um, a series of windows, it’s called the Hall of Metals in the Temples of Humankind, and, um, all around the walls have that evolution of humanity.

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but, um, the windows, each one of which is stained glass, like, and you know, different elaborate mosaics, glass mosaics, but each one dedicated to those, uh, cycles, those cycles of 7.

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So the first 7 years and then the second 7 years and then going all the way around.

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And so it’s really beautiful.

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But I’m also curious as to how so young, being at such a young age, being able to connect to nature in that intimate way and have that understanding of renewal, of the fact of, “I don’t have to ask permission, but instead, I grow with that melting snow, so I- I em- I feel that cold.

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It’s not like I pretend it’s not there.”

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Right.

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“I know the cold is there, but the cold is also indicating to me as it starts to warm that it’s time for me to take that stage, for me to step out and to start moving forward.”

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And so that- that relationship between bulb and, you know, and growth cycle, which is probably one of the best continuous, you know, of the annuals, right?

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Like, bulbs especially are such, so rich as, uh, ins- as- as beings that can teach us, bulb flowers in this case, because that’s such a constant renewal that we see, and it’s so extreme to a certain extent.

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It’s like not, you know, it’s literally like, I’m here hidden from everybody.

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Nobody even knows I’m here at all, and then I pop up for a period of time.

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Tulips in particular have no other kind of, quote-unquote, permit me for a second, use other than their presence.

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They’re, you don’t eat them, you don’t smell them, like, like, can or are there just to be seen for that season and then boof, I’m gone, but yet there’s this knowledge- Are not permanent.

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I’m not gone.

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Uh, exactly.

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And I’m wondering how that affected you.

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How do you think that that influenced you even at the beginning, obviously subconsciously, as you grew up, that- that s- being in touch with that renewal and psy- and- and cycle so early on?

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That’s a great question, and the only way that I can ever really answer it is to say that I just feel I’ve been around life more, many, many times.

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I’ve had many lifetimes.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I probably didn’t get it right-

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a bunch of times, right?

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Yeah.

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And whether you wanna believe that as a worldview or not, it satisfies me because it makes sense.

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Right.

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Is that I didn’t know because I’m special in some this-lifetime way other than what I brought with me from before.

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Right.

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And that doesn’t make me b- more than or less than anybody else.

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It just makes me where I am on my soul’s journey, right?

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And it’s funny that when you tell p- some people that, depending on their worldview, you find- you find yourself in conflict with some people because they look at it as a judgment of them.

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Right.

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Even though I’m not talking about them, they’re like, “Who do you think you are?”

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Right?

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It’s like, oh, this makes me a little sad when I count- when I count it.

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I- I understand that perfectly, ’cause I also consider myself a very old soul.

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I remember I was sitting outside of the Damanhur Creya, which is, like, kind of one of our big areas here, and somebody was hanging out with a group of friends, and we were talking- Yeah.

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and somebody came and- and gave me a little piece of paper, and they were, like, saying something about how we were like the gang of- of Damanhur in a- in a joking way but also the fact of, like, a recognition of, “You are a Polaris soul,” like, the idea of being a very, very, very old soul.

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And- and that doesn’t mean better.

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It, like you said, it just means I’ve had all these pieces that I’ve had to pick up in each life, and that also means I’m probably made, like you said, a heck l- of a lot of mistakes- Yeah.

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along the way.

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And it’s funny, ’cause just today I was- I was explaining to somebody that my own philosophy and my work is evolving to really be, um, the bridge that helps connect your soul’s journey to your present incarnation, in other words, to help us really connect in, um, and this is where the plants help me a lot, to think about that ecosystem and everything that is within the ecosystem at a physical and subtle level- Right.

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and how much of that comes from what the soul has put into different aspects of our- of our, uh, subtle body, like saying, “Hey, I want you to actually have access to all this.”

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Like, “How do I give you access in some ways?”

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And I feel like plants do do this so well because in their renewal of- of every cycle, they are constantly, like, rewriting their genes, reactivating pieces.

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It’s the whole epigenetic model that helps us understand that there’s so many aspects of us, and we just have to figure out the right combination to turn on for that particular moment that I’m in right now.

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Right.

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And I think that that’s where, you know, living many, many lives gives you the opportunity to say, “I’ve screwed up a bunch of them.

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I’ve turned them all in the wrong ways.”

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Yeah.

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“And I’m just still learning how to do that.”

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Yeah.

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I- I really enjoy that.

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How does that affect

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I mean, you wrote this book.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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What is it?

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Echo, The Echo and the Voice.

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Yeah.

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And how do you put, like, wha- first of all, tell us the genesis of the book itself, but also, how does all this fit into what you write?

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Yeah.

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You know, my, that’s a great question.

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I- I really appreciate being asked it, because many people won’t read the book.Mm-hmm.

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‘Cause it doesn’t fall into the genre that, that they typically might gravitate to for other reasons like distraction or, um, entertainment, ’cause this is not that kind of book at all.

186
00:16:12,515 –> 00:16:32,560
Um, so I’ve always thought as an artist that so many young idealist, uh, creatives among my world, and I love the young ones especially, because I remember being 15, 18, and thinking, “I’m gonna change the world with a song.”

187
00:16:33,895 –> 00:16:35,036
With a song.

188
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I believed it, right?

189
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And what I discovered along the way is that I wasn’t wrong about imagination being a tool that is capable of changing the world, because after all, civilization was imagined by human beings, right?

190
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They had to imagine it before they could craft all the systems and structures within it.

191
00:16:55,915.9999999998836 –> 00:17:01,256
So, what I realized as I got older is that it wasn’t about one song.

192
00:17:01,256 –> 00:17:19,23.999999999883585
It’s about a body of work that never strays from the, the message that I’ve always been about, which is that we’re not limited to what culture, family, friends, our educational system, our governments, our neighbors, whatever, tell us to be and expect us to be.

193
00:17:20,156 –> 00:17:37,216
There’s a, there’s, there are other choices, and one of the points I like to make is, there’s eight and a half billion of us on the planet, and we no longer all have to pull on the same rope in the same direction, because the Earth is now completely divided up, right?

194
00:17:37,216 –> 00:17:43,496
And, but yet the systems that we’re still living by try to get us all to pull and s- productive.

195
00:17:43,496 –> 00:17:45,712
You gotta be a productive member of society.

196
00:17:46,496 –> 00:17:47,056
Oh, no.

197
00:17:47,056 –> 00:17:48,116
Oh my God.

198
00:17:48,116 –> 00:17:52,876
So, that is the unifying thread, not only in the book, but in all the music.

199
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I’ve written, I’ve written 100 songs and released- Wow.

200
00:17:55,135 –> 00:17:55,422
60 of

201
00:17:56,738 –> 00:17:56,796
Yeah.

202
00:17:56,796 –> 00:18:03,856
And yes, of course, there’s the occasional fun little jaunt into party town in the mind of Mark.

203
00:18:03,856 –> 00:18:04,126
Right?

204
00:18:04,126 –> 00:18:05,296
‘Cause somebody asked for that.

205
00:18:05,296 –> 00:18:06,836
Said, “Yeah, I could do that.

206
00:18:06,836 –> 00:18:10,639.9999999997672
I could use my craft skills to write something that I’m not all that proud of.”

207
00:18:12,255.99999999976717 –> 00:18:20,816
But for the most part, the artist in me always stayed on that common thread of, how can I contribute to the possibility of the world being better in some way?

208
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You touched on something that I really wanna get into, if, if- Cool.

209
00:18:26,116 –> 00:18:32,996
you’ll permit me to follow down this little rabbit hole for a second, which is imagination as a tool.

210
00:18:32,996 –> 00:18:33,895
Hm.

211
00:18:33,895 –> 00:18:40,696
And I’m gonna, I’m gonna preface it by my side of where, like, I’m coming from, and then I really wanna hear where you’re coming from.

212
00:18:40,696 –> 00:18:41,956.0000000002328
So- Cool.

213
00:18:41,956.0000000002328 –> 00:18:51,076
This year for me in partic- so a few years back, um, I started working with a plant that, for those of you that are watching can see in the background, I call no name dracaena.

214
00:18:51,076 –> 00:19:04,675
And no name dracaena, uh, dracaena is, um, is a plant that I started to work with in one of my spiritual research groups here at Damanhur, where I decided I wanted to work on my subtle body of imagination.

215
00:19:04,675 –> 00:19:11,856
In other words, my soul kept telling me that there is a lot more to my imagination, and I couldn’t access it.

216
00:19:12,685 –> 00:19:13,199.99999999976717
Hi, kitty.

217
00:19:14,275.99999999976717 –> 00:19:21,915
And, uh, and so- And so, uh, I couldn’t, I, I felt like it w- there was so much there.

218
00:19:21,915 –> 00:19:24,735.9999999997672
I felt like it was such a part of me.

219
00:19:24,735.9999999997672 –> 00:19:32,156
I, I’m n- I don’t c- I know many people don’t believe this, but I don’t consider myself, I didn’t up until then, consider myself an imaginative person.

220
00:19:32,156 –> 00:19:32,556
I am- Oh.

221
00:19:32,556 –> 00:19:37,036
very good, I’m a great derivative person, and I don’t take that as an insult.

222
00:19:37,036 –> 00:19:42,775.9999999997672
I am somebody who can takes, I always used to say that I’m really great at making the dreams of others come true.

223
00:19:42,775.9999999997672 –> 00:19:46,175
In other words, I can take, like, I’m a great editor, not a great writer.

224
00:19:46,175 –> 00:19:52,306
Like, these are all the ways that up until a certain period of my life I felt very comfortable in.

225
00:19:52,306 –> 00:20:09,076
And then I got to the place where I started to shift probably because of age, because of, you know, different shifts in my astrology or different pass- you know, phases of life, I started to move more to the creator rather than the person that, you know, uh, took somebody else’s work and then moved it.

226
00:20:09,076 –> 00:20:10,696
Even as a musician- Interesting.

227
00:20:10,696 –> 00:20:13,856
I’m not an original, like, I don’t compose original music.

228
00:20:13,856 –> 00:20:23,396
I can read sheet music, and I can do that really well, and I can, um, whether I’m playing or whether I’m singing, but I’m not necessarily somebody who makes up songs.

229
00:20:23,396 –> 00:20:25,100
Never been insulted, never felt like I was less than because of it.

230
00:20:25,100 –> 00:20:26,420
was less than because of it.

231
00:20:26,420 –> 00:20:31,408
It’s just what I’m really, really, really great at is taking that idea and making something great out of it.

232
00:20:32,280 –> 00:20:37,660
And then I started getting this nagging, this nagging inside of me that said, “No, no, no, there’s actually more.

233
00:20:37,660 –> 00:20:49,580
You’re looking at imagination based on these things around you because it’s, it is, you’re a very creative person, you’re inside of the creative world, the arts and everything, but that’s not the kind of imagination that’s yours.”

234
00:20:49,580 –> 00:20:51,160
But I had no freaking clue what it meant.

235
00:20:51,160 –> 00:21:02,740
So I started working with this plant to tap into my aura, into the layers of my aura, and find that subtle body of imagination, and to start figuring out what that looked like for me.

236
00:21:02,740 –> 00:21:14,820
And it has very much revolutionized my life, so much so that this year, I consider this to be, like most people use the numbers, I use paths on the, on the Tree of Life from Kabbalah ’cause I’m a Kabbalist.

237
00:21:14,820 –> 00:21:21,910
I’m on the, the Path of Tzadik this year, the whole transfigured feminine, but imagination is another piece of that, and I was like- Oh.

238
00:21:21,910 –> 00:21:23,984
so I’ve been working a lot with imagination this year.

239
00:21:24,520 –> 00:21:26,384
That’s my premise, so you know where I’m coming from.

240
00:21:26,860 –> 00:21:30,960
But I love that you talked and you said, “Imagination as a tool.”

241
00:21:31,920 –> 00:21:41,820
And I think I’d love to hear what your thoughts on that are, because I feel like some people would s- hear that sentence and feel that it’s contradictory, right?

242
00:21:41,820 –> 00:21:41,900
Mm-hmm.

243
00:21:41,900 –> 00:21:44,290
The idea of, of imagination is supposed-

244
00:21:44,290 –> 00:22:08,080
to be this spontaneous thing, this thing that just you can’t control, where that is one form of imagination, but I also find that imagination is something you harness and you work with and you learn how to master in different aspects, and I’d love to hear how you work with imagination in that way, and how has, you know, the natural world helped you explore that topic?

245
00:22:09,080 –> 00:22:09,380
Right.

246
00:22:09,380 –> 00:22:13,380
Oh, this is, uh, I’m really glad that you latched onto this ’cause this- You’re right.

247
00:22:13,380 –> 00:22:19,960
This is super rich, and, and it leans into what I always say is there isn’t one answer to anything.

248
00:22:19,960 –> 00:22:20,380
Mm-mm.

249
00:22:20,380 –> 00:22:33,700
In fact, the more you stay open to not being behind the veil, you stay open to, uh, the infinite choices beyond what your family and friends and culture and church and education tell you to do- Right.

250
00:22:33,880 –> 00:22:37,060
the more, the more answers to every question there are.

251
00:22:37,060 –> 00:22:39,678
So it comes down to which one do I choose?

252
00:22:40,480 –> 00:22:49,072
And the answer to that, I think for everyone should be, which one feels the best while simultaneously not harming anyone or anything else?

253
00:22:49,985.9999999997672 –> 00:22:50,100
Mm.

254
00:22:50,100 –> 00:22:56,900
So, to get to the imagination as a tool within that frame is human being, we’re a species, right?

255
00:22:56,900 –> 00:23:11,660
Just like the flowers and the plants that you live with and you grow with and through, humans are a species, and what makes us unique is our brains are such that imagination is a thing that we’re all capable of.

256
00:23:11,660 –> 00:23:16,624
The question is, how do you want to wield that gift?

257
00:23:17,580 –> 00:23:19,056
Because there isn’t one way.

258
00:23:19,600 –> 00:23:20,710
There’s many, many ways.

259
00:23:20,710 –> 00:23:32,016
And I’ve always saw it as a way to change my mind, even if for a moment, so I could think of a different outcome of something that I was trying to create.

260
00:23:32,930 –> 00:23:33,940
Does that make sense?

261
00:23:33,940 –> 00:23:34,760
Yeah.

262
00:23:34,760 –> 00:23:35,360.00000000023283
Yeah.

263
00:23:35,360.00000000023283 –> 00:23:35,888
Yes.

264
00:23:36,840 –> 00:23:38,520
I hadn’t thought of it that way.

265
00:23:38,520 –> 00:23:55,200
One of the things that I’ve created, and we’ll talk about it a little later in the Creative Humanity Alliance, is a guide, a guide for the solo creator to invite them into, um, an imaginary space long enough to create something that belongs in our collection.

266
00:23:55,200 –> 00:23:55,560
Mm-hmm.

267
00:23:55,560 –> 00:23:59,300
Everything in the collection has to do with human connection.

268
00:23:59,300 –> 00:24:00,100
Mm.

269
00:24:00,100 –> 00:24:01,600
Nothing else is in that library.

270
00:24:01,600 –> 00:24:08,720
All it is, uh, the library full of creative artifacts that represent human connection in some way, shape, or form.

271
00:24:09,460 –> 00:24:13,600
So to, I’m s- I’m staying with this thread, even though it probably seems I’m getting off on a tangent.

272
00:24:13,600 –> 00:24:14,500
No, no, no, no.

273
00:24:14,500 –> 00:24:14,860.0000000002328
I’m following you.

274
00:24:14,860.0000000002328 –> 00:24:24,976
Imagination as a tool is, the tool has 3 natural laws that I build a framework out of, and I don’t call it anything because that’s just another thing to get in conflict about.

275
00:24:25,780 –> 00:24:33,520
And the first one is All One Thing, AOT, and I invite the solo creator, you might be a songwriter, a painter, or a sculpture.

276
00:24:33,520 –> 00:24:43,900
Just for a moment, I want you to be the artist that is deciding to imagine, whether you believe it or not, that everything is connected.

277
00:24:43,900 –> 00:24:49,080
There is no w- disconnection from anything or anyone.

278
00:24:49,080 –> 00:24:49,936.0000000002328
Everything is connected.

279
00:24:50,660 –> 00:24:57,488
Now ask whatever question you were asking in the creation of what you’re working on, what’s the difference now?

280
00:24:58,700 –> 00:25:09,720
How do you perceive that thing you were trying to bring to life through your art, how is it now different that you’ve just decided to creatively switch your frame and say, “I- it’s all one thing.

281
00:25:09,720 –> 00:25:11,090
Everything is connected”?

282
00:25:11,090 –> 00:25:22,460
And the answer always comes, there’s always an answer, it’s different in some way, and that’s where the learning is about how and why you would use imagination as a tool.

283
00:25:22,460 –> 00:25:25,488
It’s, uh, just an exercise of, what if this were true?

284
00:25:27,020 –> 00:25:33,136
What if this were true and how does it change where I thought I was going or where I wanna go with this thing?

285
00:25:36,440 –> 00:25:39,139.99999999976717
I, I, I, I, I, I, uh, that-

286
00:25:39,139.99999999976717 –> 00:25:51,912
you’re touching on so many aspects that I absolutely love because- This is, you know, that difficulty that we as humans have of- of focusing on, like, how this doesn’t fit.

287
00:25:51,912 –> 00:25:52,491
Right.

288
00:25:52,491 –> 00:26:02,072
And especially for, you know, my audience, those of you who are listening are most likely multi-passionate people, multi-potentialites, people with lots of thoughts and ideas.

289
00:26:02,072 –> 00:26:08,532
And there is still, which it frustrates the heck out of me, this thought process that it’s disconnected, right?

290
00:26:08,532 –> 00:26:09,051
The fact

291
00:26:09,051 –> 00:26:16,452
I was just- just talking with somebody over the weekend as we were doing this super long hike here in the mountains, which was beautiful, and we were having a discussion.

292
00:26:16,452 –> 00:26:29,632
He was telling me how, you know, he spent 10 years in real estate, and how he spent, uh, another 10 years working, you know, as a Buddhist, and then he now is really into woodworking and he’s trying to understand woodworking.

293
00:26:29,632 –> 00:26:34,022
And then he also, you know, manages this other project over here.

294
00:26:34,022 –> 00:26:41,512
And then he says to me, he goes, “And then, of course, crazy me decided to not just learn one new instrument, but 2.”

295
00:26:41,512 –> 00:26:52,551
And he’s talking to me like if these things are disparate and he’s trying to, like, find his footing in one of them, and I’m like, “You do realize they’re all connected.”

296
00:26:52,551 –> 00:26:54,192
And he looks at me and he’s like, “What do you mean?”

297
00:26:54,192 –> 00:27:01,472
I’m like, “There’s a thread that follows through all of these, and each one of them is giving you skills that’s helping you with the other.

298
00:27:01,472 –> 00:27:12,322
And that if you’re lear- trying to now learn an instrument, it’s because those instruments contain the tools that you need, something that you need that’s gonna help you create better woodworking-” Right.

299
00:27:12,322 –> 00:27:15,712
” which is the area that you feel like you really wanna develop yourself in.”

300
00:27:15,712 –> 00:27:18,371
Like- like, “You- these aren’t separate projects.”

301
00:27:18,371 –> 00:27:24,176
And- and he was just, like, looking at me and I was just like- Just like you said, “Just imagine for a second if it were true.”

302
00:27:24,772 –> 00:27:24,880.9999999997672
Mm-hmm.

303
00:27:24,880.9999999997672 –> 00:27:26,532
Like, forget it, for, you know

304
00:27:26,532 –> 00:27:33,472
Why focus on the d- the separation that just makes you feel bad about yourself, that you’re wasting time, you don’t know how to emphasize?

305
00:27:33,472 –> 00:27:35,991
Like, all of those things disempower you.

306
00:27:35,991 –> 00:27:36,152
Right.

307
00:27:36,152 –> 00:27:39,572
Ask yourself the question, we’re here, we’re in this beautiful natural setting.

308
00:27:39,572 –> 00:27:52,712
Look around, like, talk about disparate, like, every freaking tree, grass, every being that we’re seeing around here seems to be doing a million different things at once, and yet look how it all comes together in harmony.

309
00:27:52,712 –> 00:27:52,751
Yeah.

310
00:27:52,751 –> 00:27:55,032
So just like you said, what if it were true?

311
00:27:55,032 –> 00:27:58,472
What if it’s true that all of these things are actually connected?

312
00:27:58,472 –> 00:27:58,952
What would that be like?

313
00:27:58,952 –> 00:27:59,152
Right.

314
00:28:00,171 –> 00:28:10,741
You know, and what I’ve- what I’ve experienced as the real benefit of imagination and that kind of question as an exercise of creativity is that it’s non-threatening.

315
00:28:10,741 –> 00:28:10,942
Mm-hmm.

316
00:28:10,942 –> 00:28:11,331.99999999976717
Right?

317
00:28:11,331.99999999976717 –> 00:28:12,932
Especially when you’re working in a group.

318
00:28:12,932 –> 00:28:22,121
If you’re trying to put a cohort together, there- it’s even cross-generational, which is ideal for what I’m trying to do, you get a 20-year-old, a 40-year-old, a 60-year-old, and an 80-year-old.

319
00:28:22,121 –> 00:28:29,712
They all have different experiences and you’re- you’re herding them into one project so you can benefit from all those points of view.

320
00:28:30,272 –> 00:28:32,031
You then invite them into that space.

321
00:28:32,031 –> 00:28:33,360
You don’t have to believe this.

322
00:28:34,52.00000000023283 –> 00:28:36,511
It’s just part of what we’re doing in this room right now- Right.

323
00:28:36,511 –> 00:28:38,63.99999999976717
to get to a shared end result.

324
00:28:38,592 –> 00:28:46,768
So it’s non-threatening to say, “Just for this next X number of X, this is true, how does it change what we’re doing?

325
00:28:47,351.99999999976717 –> 00:28:48,732
How does it change what you look at?”

326
00:28:48,732 –> 00:28:56,492
And it’s easier in a group because when someone starts to get emotional, you realize they’ve stepped out of the exercise.

327
00:28:56,492 –> 00:29:01,744
They’re now- they’re now looking through their own lens again, and it’s fun to say, “Oops.”

328
00:29:03,192 –> 00:29:03,871.9999999997672
Right?

329
00:29:03,871.9999999997672 –> 00:29:04,952
“You- you left us for a moment.

330
00:29:04,952 –> 00:29:05,531
Come on back.”

331
00:29:05,531 –> 00:29:07,432
You know, just invite them playfully back into it.

332
00:29:07,432 –> 00:29:09,212
Remember, it’s- everything’s connected.

333
00:29:09,212 –> 00:29:09,831.9999999997672
Right.

334
00:29:09,831.9999999997672 –> 00:29:15,408
And you don’t have to take it with you when you go, you don’t have to believe it, but just for now, right now, let’s play with this.

335
00:29:16,172 –> 00:29:16,492
love it.

336
00:29:16,492 –> 00:29:17,492
Okay, so that’s number one.

337
00:29:17,492 –> 00:29:17,851.9999999997672
What’s number 2?

338
00:29:17,851.9999999997672 –> 00:29:18,63.99999999976717
Yep.

339
00:29:19,992 –> 00:29:21,52.00000000023283
What do you mean number 2?

340
00:29:21,52.00000000023283 –> 00:29:22,192
Didn’t you say that there was 3?

341
00:29:22,972 –> 00:29:23,442
Or is that another one?

342
00:29:23,442 –> 00:29:25,452
Oh, the lo- oh, yes, yes.

343
00:29:25,452 –> 00:29:26,612
Yeah, sorry, yeah.

344
00:29:26,612 –> 00:29:30,232
Oh, well, I didn’t think we were gonna go into the other 2 because they- You don’t have to.

345
00:29:30,232 –> 00:29:30,682
It- it was just a question.

346
00:29:30,682 –> 00:29:32,291.00000000023283
I will mention what they are.

347
00:29:32,291.00000000023283 –> 00:29:32,652
Okay.

348
00:29:32,652 –> 00:29:37,312
Is- the second one is just a reframing of what I learned long ago.

349
00:29:37,312 –> 00:29:40,592
first time I saw it was at the age of 12 in a Wayne Dyer book.

350
00:29:41,652 –> 00:29:47,088
And it’s the formula that whatever a human being believes, feeds what they think.

351
00:29:48,152 –> 00:29:51,432
What you think, you will eventually say, right?

352
00:29:51,432 –> 00:29:52,871.9999999997672
What you say, you will do.

353
00:29:52,871.9999999997672 –> 00:30:00,842
Then that- the doing is the first time that the belief is manifesting physically in your ar- in your life and your world.

354
00:30:00,842 –> 00:30:02,692
And the outcome is the result of that.

355
00:30:02,692 –> 00:30:05,328
So BTSD=O.

356
00:30:06,311.00000000023283 –> 00:30:07,696
That’s the second formula.

357
00:30:08,452 –> 00:30:08,592
Move this.

358
00:30:08,592 –> 00:30:14,092
And what that represents is, um, movement, right?

359
00:30:14,092 –> 00:30:14,771
Movement.

360
00:30:14,771 –> 00:30:17,424
Because you can change the belief and the outcome change.

361
00:30:18,092 –> 00:30:23,672
You can change the thought, just look at all variables, and then go backwards from that.

362
00:30:23,672 –> 00:30:26,112
And the whole formula shifts- Right.

363
00:30:26,112 –> 00:30:28,880
when you play with the variables in that formula.

364
00:30:28,880 –> 00:30:43,760
And what I loved about what I learned from Wayne at 12 was, again, he taught me that I don’t have to necessarily believe in this, but if I play with it in my mind, the human brain has an interesting thing.

365
00:30:44,660 –> 00:30:51,600
Imagined experience stores memories exactly the same as real experience.

366
00:30:51,600 –> 00:30:52,440
Yes.

367
00:30:52,440 –> 00:31:02,608
So by playing with it as an artist, I begin to, without even realizing it, see the effect of that tool in my real life when I’m not an

368
00:31:04,170 –> 00:31:05,168
That’s number 2.

369
00:31:06,040 –> 00:31:12,670
The last one is about, it’s a growth mechanism, I call it elemental, and it’s an acronym.

370
00:31:12,670 –> 00:31:17,040
And only 2 of the letters change, but they’re still the same letter.

371
00:31:17,040 –> 00:31:25,680
So every little event makes every next time a little fill in the blank.

372
00:31:26,740 –> 00:31:26,770
Ah.

373
00:31:26,770 –> 00:31:31,760
And the event time relationship relative to growth is chaos.

374
00:31:31,760 –> 00:31:34,480
You’re not in control, you’re not making a choice.

375
00:31:34,480 –> 00:31:41,520
You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re acknowledging the event, and you’re watching it through time, and you’re then saying, “What happened?

376
00:31:41,520 –> 00:31:42,576
What was the result of that?

377
00:31:43,080 –> 00:31:46,940
Was it more, less, up, down, bright, dark, whatever?”

378
00:31:46,940 –> 00:31:53,840
So the same acronym, every little effort, I just traded passive for active.

379
00:31:53,840 –> 00:31:54,460
Right.

380
00:31:54,460 –> 00:32:01,280
Makes every next try the iteration of effort, trying again- Huh.

381
00:32:01,280 –> 00:32:06,140
a little, more, less, brighter, darker, funner, not funner-

382
00:32:06,140 –> 00:32:07,680
right?

383
00:32:07,680 –> 00:32:17,360.00000000023283
So again, it’s just this thing that you do in your mind that gives you a growth potential, and a character, and a storyline, whatever the case may be.

384
00:32:17,360.00000000023283 –> 00:32:28,800
I talk about all of this relative to the harmless world of creating things, not getting into the scary world of changing my beliefs, or trying to change somebody else’s mind about something.

385
00:32:28,800 –> 00:32:29,730
I use it as a tool- Hmm.

386
00:32:29,730 –> 00:32:32,446
to change, what is that third verse gonna be?

387
00:32:33,800 –> 00:32:38,768
How can I change that third verse to be in alignment with the goal that I decided on when I started writing the song?

388
00:32:42,680 –> 00:32:43,460
Powerful.

389
00:32:43,460 –> 00:32:43,740
Very powerful.

390
00:32:43,740 –> 00:32:46,620
I love the way your, I see your brain-

391
00:32:46,620 –> 00:32:49,049
churning- I know it’s like, c- It’s great.

392
00:32:49,049 –> 00:32:52,460
It’s, it’s processing and like, I know I can’t hide anything on my face.

393
00:32:52,460 –> 00:32:55,440
It’s like, it’s processing in real time and it’s really interesting.

394
00:32:55,440 –> 00:33:03,889.9999999997672
And, and I’m s- I’m thinking, the, you know, it’s when you said the second one, um, you, you made me think of a quote from Gandhi that I’ve always loved- Mm-hmm.

395
00:33:03,889.9999999997672 –> 00:33:15,420
which is, um, and it’s, you know, I try, I’ll try to quote it as close as possible, but it is, “Happiness is when what you think, and what you feel, and what you say are in har”

396
00:33:15,420 –> 00:33:15,760
No.

397
00:33:15,760 –> 00:33:21,392
When you, what you think, what you f- what you, what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony.

398
00:33:21,900 –> 00:33:31,609
And I think that this goes perfectly to that second one, because especially, we don’t, we don’t realize that the disharmony is not whatever it is that we’re thinking.

399
00:33:31,609 –> 00:33:36,980
It’s that oftentimes our actions don’t mirror what we truly feel and think.

400
00:33:36,980 –> 00:33:37,040
Yeah.

401
00:33:37,040 –> 00:33:42,860.0000000002328
And therefore, when, when those things are out of harmony with one another, then that’s where the unhappiness comes.

402
00:33:42,860.0000000002328 –> 00:33:51,520
So we tend to try to, like, demonize our thoughts, but it’s really not a problem of our thoughts, or our feelings, or our, our, you know, the things that we say.

403
00:33:51,520 –> 00:34:00,440
It’s the fact that we need to be, all of these need to be in harmony working with one another in order for them to truly express who we are and what we do.

404
00:34:00,440 –> 00:34:01,049
Absolutely.

405
00:34:01,049 –> 00:34:01,500
And for me- Yeah.

406
00:34:01,500 –> 00:34:05,260
And for me that’s really kind of the core of this whole ecosystem thinking, right?

407
00:34:05,260 –> 00:34:08,520
The whole way that I look at the ecosystem.

408
00:34:08,520 –> 00:34:17,279
If I’m trying to be with others and trying to get things donees with others, and yet I don’t wanna be there, like, it’s gonna come across.

409
00:34:17,279 –> 00:34:18,980
It’s gonna be a problem.

410
00:34:18,980 –> 00:34:27,340.00000000023283
Or if I don’t trust the other, or if I don’t believe that the other is good enough or whatever it is, any kind of judgment that’s coming out, it’s gonna come out eventually.

411
00:34:27,340.00000000023283 –> 00:34:28,980
So you might as well just deal with it.

412
00:34:28,980 –> 00:34:35,199.99999999976717
Just deal with it in some way, whether that’s dealing with it by, by changing myself or dealing with it by 0 by anothers.

413
00:34:35,199.99999999976717 –> 00:34:38,90.00000000023283
And, and that, that’s why that human connection part- Yeah.

414
00:34:38,90.00000000023283 –> 00:34:39,940
that we were talking about was so interesting.

415
00:34:39,940 –> 00:34:47,420
So you’ve mentioned it a few times, but I’d love for you to explain a little bit more, what is this Creative Humanity Alliance that you have?

416
00:34:47,420 –> 00:34:47,920
Yes.

417
00:34:48,620 –> 00:34:54,800.0000000002328
Um, it’s an extension of the 15-year-old me saying, “I’m gonna change the world with a song.”

418
00:34:55,980 –> 00:34:58,864
You know, like we’ve already said, everything is a thread with me.

419
00:34:59,520 –> 00:35:04,760
And came into this life not willing to let go of the original thread.

420
00:35:04,760 –> 00:35:21,279.99999999953434
And the Creative Humanity Alliance is my latest effort, right, toward giving other interested creatives, and creative is many, many things.

421
00:35:21,279.99999999953434 –> 00:35:24,260
You can make video games, you can write books, you can paint.

422
00:35:24,260 –> 00:35:26,576
Creative is not limited to commercial art,

423
00:35:28,240 –> 00:35:33,232
To get together and m- many of them have been curious because I’m so prolific.

424
00:35:33,762 –> 00:35:34,864
“How do you do that?

425
00:35:35,560 –> 00:35:37,020
You’re not 20 anymore.

426
00:35:37,020 –> 00:35:38,000
You’re in your 60s.

427
00:35:38,000 –> 00:35:39,856
How, how are you so prolific?”

428
00:35:40,520 –> 00:35:43,160
And they’re interested in how I can do that.

429
00:35:43,160 –> 00:35:54,650
So the Creative Humanity Alliance was a desire to sh- share the method so that more people could get on board long enough to create another piece for the archive, right?

430
00:35:55,298 –> 00:35:55,380
Mm-hmm.

431
00:35:55,380 –> 00:36:03,663.9999999995343
Because the only way you can make an archive about one thing is for everyone to share an understanding of what that one thing is on some level.

432
00:36:04,180 –> 00:36:04,440
Right.

433
00:36:04,440 –> 00:36:07,088
Like, you know, there’s a lot of levels to connection and humanity.

434
00:36:07,688 –> 00:36:12,708
you know, a connection to plants, to animals, to, you know, the cosmos.

435
00:36:12,708 –> 00:36:14,032
Th- there’s so many, so many levels.

436
00:36:14,968 –> 00:36:22,224
So, the Creative Humanity Alliance was 63 years of thinking about, “How do I change the world with a song?”

437
00:36:23,170 –> 00:36:23,348
Mm.

438
00:36:23,348 –> 00:36:37,136
And the novel demonstrated how a character, Jonas Wilder in the novel, can fulfill his dream and his goal of somehow contributing to changing the world for the better.

439
00:36:37,958 –> 00:36:41,744
And it wasn’t a song, but in the book, it’s a collection of 10 songs.

440
00:36:43,148 –> 00:36:47,440
But the 10 songs are very specific, and they’re in a very specific order.

441
00:36:48,528.0000000004657 –> 00:37:04,468
And when you listen to it in order, by Jonas’ design, little things begin to wake up in the perception of the listener’s position among all that you can be positioned among, right?

442
00:37:04,468 –> 00:37:22,384
You look at your own life, and these songs unlock code that’s in the human brain, and it was Jonas’ grand experiment in his living outside of society, he was living in a van, n- not keeping a home, just gave up all the trappings of society.

443
00:37:23,168 –> 00:37:28,608
Safety and security wasn’t in a job, and a building, and a car.

444
00:37:28,608 –> 00:37:35,008
Safety and security for Jonas was never stopping expressing himself- Mm-hmm.

445
00:37:35,008 –> 00:37:45,104
and never stopping being open to what he experiences among and with other human beings change the way he expresses himself.

446
00:37:46,288 –> 00:37:59,216
And there’s a moment, without giving it away, in chapter 3, part 3 rather, there’s 26 chapters, where he realizes he’s gotten everything that he needed from the journey on the road, which was a long one.

447
00:37:59,908 –> 00:38:08,304
Now, it’s time to take the he who he is now in close relationship with other human beings to form that alliance.

448
00:38:09,208 –> 00:38:09,688
Mm.

449
00:38:09,688 –> 00:38:15,952
And he and 5 charac- 4 other characters imagine the Creative Humanity Alliance in the final chapter of the book.

450
00:38:17,227 –> 00:38:20,560
So, the fiction turned into real life in August of this year.

451
00:38:22,828 –> 00:38:23,297
Wow.

452
00:38:23,297 –> 00:38:25,508
What an ex- I mean, there’s

453
00:38:25,508 –> 00:38:26,148
Ooh.

454
00:38:26,148 –> 00:38:26,668
Okay, hold on.

455
00:38:26,668 –> 00:38:26,908
Wait.

456
00:38:26,908 –> 00:38:34,511.99999999953434
I wanted to figure out which direction I wanna take, ’cause I had a question that I was gonna ask you, but then you actually answered it in th- in the way that you put it all together.

457
00:38:36,087 –> 00:38:45,068
I guess one of the things I wanna bring into this, and, and coming back to if you looked at, you know, these pieces as ecosystem pieces, right?

458
00:38:45,068 –> 00:38:48,528.0000000004657
So, going back a little bit, ’cause I know that you think in ecosystems too, so I’m kind of- Yeah.

459
00:38:48,528.0000000004657 –> 00:38:52,568
bringing that m- that metaphor narrative back into it.

460
00:38:52,568 –> 00:38:59,808
And c- when I hear this type of story, and I think of kind of secession of an ecosystem, right?

461
00:38:59,808 –> 00:39:04,808
You have from early secession all the way through to a mature sort of forest.

462
00:39:04,808 –> 00:39:07,708
Let’s take a forest, ’cause it’s the easiest one for us to visualize.

463
00:39:07,708 –> 00:39:24,848
And so, of course, the, the, you know, the road is that, that middle phase where I go from early secession into kind of middle stabilizing type of ground, and then I get to the place of late secession, which is I take everything that I now created, and it’s rooted, and it’s grounded, and it’s a part of me.

464
00:39:24,848 –> 00:39:28,797
And I can just, like, stabilize all of that, and be and enjoy what that is.

465
00:39:28,797 –> 00:39:31,216
And of course, there’s little transformations that are happening around.

466
00:39:31,908 –> 00:39:38,168
How do you see the, um, the idea of, like, what is the meta- what is the ecosystem that is being created?

467
00:39:38,168 –> 00:39:46,384
What is the ethos of that ecosystem that you feel is most important for readers of the book, or, you know, to really walk away with?

468
00:39:48,628 –> 00:39:49,968
Yeah, that’s a good question.

469
00:39:49,968 –> 00:39:56,648
Um, it’s y- a- and h- my partner, Howard, talks about this all the time with me.

470
00:39:56,648 –> 00:39:59,288
He asks this same question a lot of different ways.

471
00:39:59,288 –> 00:40:12,818
And what he points out is that you’re creating an ecosystem that is a growing body of reminders of what it means to be a human being- Mm-hmm.

472
00:40:12,818 –> 00:40:26,600
and to not see each other as the labels that our lives put on us, political, education levels, religious, ethnic, geographic, um, so many labels.

473
00:40:26,600 –> 00:40:33,280
And we look around us and people are not even taking a moment to know this other person.

474
00:40:33,280 –> 00:40:35,600
All they see is how their labels don’t match their own.

475
00:40:36,450 –> 00:40:36,680
Right.

476
00:40:36,680 –> 00:40:49,936
And Howard marvels, because he doesn’t know how to do it himself, he marvels at, that not only do I create that content, I’ve created the content to help people understand how to create the content.

477
00:40:50,722 –> 00:40:50,780
Hmm.

478
00:40:50,780 –> 00:41:13,232
Because the ecosystem is meant to become bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger through the alliance until anyone who looks at it can’t miss the underlying message, even if it’s the first whisper they’ve ever heard, that nothing matters more than perceiving ourselves as friend, not enemy.

479
00:41:13,954 –> 00:41:27,700
To see what we have in common, what makes us beautiful and perfect, and that’s compromised when we see each other as something other that is artificial, right?

480
00:41:27,700 –> 00:41:31,700
So, we’re creating an ecosystem where you can’t help but notice, right?

481
00:41:31,700 –> 00:41:34,600
We have 10 things in the pantry now, we call it The Pantry.

482
00:41:34,600 –> 00:41:37,488
Imagine those 10 being magnified to 100.

483
00:41:38,100 –> 00:41:38,500
Mm-hmm.

484
00:41:38,500 –> 00:41:40,368
And then 1,000 and then 10,000.

485
00:41:41,380 –> 00:41:43,760
Um, we have a big planet.

486
00:41:43,760 –> 00:41:50,992
And Google sees the wisdom of what we’re doing, they’ve given us $10,000 a month to spend to get the word out about this.

487
00:41:51,600 –> 00:41:52,000
Wow.

488
00:41:52,000 –> 00:41:55,160
And that’s a, that’s a big commitment, that’s $120,000 a year.

489
00:41:55,160 –> 00:41:55,610
With no strings attached.

490
00:41:55,610 –> 00:41:57,040
That’s amazing.

491
00:41:57,040 –> 00:41:57,980
Yes.

492
00:41:57,980 –> 00:42:00,180
That’s- That gives hope to everybody who’s listening.

493
00:42:00,180 –> 00:42:02,096
Your projects too can be supported.

494
00:42:02,980 –> 00:42:03,640
Yes.

495
00:42:03,640 –> 00:42:15,248
If you have the determination to really focus your mission and describe it and punch holes in it yourself before anyone else has an opportunity to.

496
00:42:15,800 –> 00:42:16,100
Right.

497
00:42:16,100 –> 00:42:22,960
And then when it’s ready, put it in front of the, you know, where some people perceive Google as an evil, right?

498
00:42:22,960 –> 00:42:25,620
There’s- You can see the light and the dark in anything.

499
00:42:25,620 –> 00:42:27,740
In anything and everything.

500
00:42:27,740 –> 00:42:28,120
In everything.

501
00:42:28,120 –> 00:42:28,944
Everything.

502
00:42:29,800 –> 00:42:30,670
So- Yeah.

503
00:42:30,670 –> 00:42:35,120
I-I see the light in Google because they see the light in this project.

504
00:42:36,540 –> 00:42:39,740
And d- did that answer your question about the importance of the ecosystem?

505
00:42:39,740 –> 00:42:40,740
Yeah, it did.

506
00:42:40,740 –> 00:42:54,780
And especially because you brought it back to, you know, uh, uh, uh, something that I, I keep heading, I keep touching on over and over again in every aspect of my own work and the work that I do with my clients, which is really nothing matters more than those relationships.

507
00:42:54,780 –> 00:42:54,790
Yep.

508
00:42:54,790 –> 00:42:56,400
Nothing matters more than relationship.

509
00:42:57,020 –> 00:42:57,060
Yeah.

510
00:42:57,060 –> 00:43:15,480
It is relationship in all of its vast definitions, relationship with self, relationship with divine, relationship with other, relationship with more than human, relationship all around, and it is really the quality of those relationships that determines the quality of your life, right?

511
00:43:15,480 –> 00:43:25,500
Those relationships can have many different, you know, uh, I struggle with the words positive or negative anymore, I think of constructive, destructive, and even that can be useful.

512
00:43:25,500 –> 00:43:26,220
Positive- Yeah.

513
00:43:26,220 –> 00:43:30,150
destructive can be really positive if you use it in the right moment.

514
00:43:30,150 –> 00:43:30,170
Right, yeah.

515
00:43:30,170 –> 00:43:33,456
And it’s really about that quality of that relationship.

516
00:43:34,360 –> 00:43:55,820
And the fact that our, going back to, you know, what you were talking about with, um, our, our cultures and all the labels that we’re given, relationships in particular have so many labels attached to them that makes them myopic in nature in some ways, they’re very, very, very limited, when we have this expansive way of being.

517
00:43:55,820 –> 00:44:20,200
I’ve realized that over the last years working closely with the plants, my capacity to have multilayered relationships, my capacity even, for lack of a better term, to love, in a much more expansive way is, is something that I never expected to come about from working with plants so closely- Yeah.

518
00:44:20,200 –> 00:44:22,240
but has been something I

519
00:44:22,240 –> 00:44:52,830
As a matter of fact, the day that I had the, which was again part of a spiritual research group that I was in, when we had this moment where we all realized that in our own ways of working with plants so closely, when we were doing the kind of, uh, end of year summary of the research that we had been doing and how it all connected between the different, um, kind of like spokes of a wheel, we were looking at how all of our individual relation- ‘Cause each one of us had a relationship for a year with a plant, mine was with the, this one over here, a no-name dracaena,

520
00:44:53,880 –> 00:44:54,520
talking about- Mm-hmm.

521
00:44:54,520 –> 00:45:01,980
imagination, but another person was working with an avocado, another with a ficus, another one was talking with a, a begonia, like, we were having

522
00:45:01,980 –> 00:45:10,420
Another with a spider plant, we were having these really interesting relations, and we would get together every week and we would share the research we were doing and how we were carrying it out and everything.

523
00:45:10,420 –> 00:45:16,830
And when we came to the, to the sum of it all, it was so corny, I was just sitting there when we realized it-

524
00:45:16,830 –> 00:45:18,960
’cause none of us were trying to get there.

525
00:45:18,960 –> 00:45:25,710
Like, it wasn’t a, “We’re trying to prove this,” but we all ended up in, like, this extremely expansive love, this- Yes.

526
00:45:25,710 –> 00:45:47,680
extremely expansive, um, understanding of the connections that we had and how it profoundly shifted the definition of the word, e- especially for me, where, you know, you have love of family and I love, you know, work, and in English especially we overuse the word love sometimes, like, I really love that concept- Yeah.

527
00:45:47,680 –> 00:45:55,560
I really love that person, and all this, we have a very, um, it’s, it’s funny, we use the word a lot but with very limited definitions of it.

528
00:45:55,560 –> 00:45:56,830
It- It’s usually a noun, not a verb.

529
00:45:56,830 –> 00:45:59,700
It replaces like in a lot of aspects and all these different pieces.

530
00:45:59,700 –> 00:46:29,616
Yeah.And there, instead, I reached this, like, like, love that I still can’t put words to ’cause our English language doesn’t have it, and now when I think of certain people, certain plants, um, certain experiences in my life, I get, like, an over-rush of emotion that makes me realize that that is my divine nature to, to a certain extent, and it’s this- Yeah.

531
00:46:30,183 –> 00:46:32,464
it’s, it’s, mixes respect and

532
00:46:32,464 –> 00:46:48,604
It doesn’t mean I always like everything, like, I don’t like every person that I deeply love, but there’s, like, this respect and this r- reciprocity and this, like, humanness with otherness and, uh, it, it’s so hard to put into words.

533
00:46:48,604 –> 00:47:17,744
And I feel like that also is, going back to the whole concept we were talking about, about imagination as a tool, I think that when we allow ourselves to be in that space, the freedom that comes with that space, because it means that all my emotions now are okay, everything is, you know, I’m, I’m allowed to touch it, then I can use imagination to envision it in, in, apply it across so many different things.

534
00:47:17,744 –> 00:47:30,384
It’s almost like I can use that to wash and to guide this flow because now I’m no longer acting out of fear, which is usually what inhibits us and what really blocks our imagination and so many other things.

535
00:47:30,384 –> 00:47:34,744
Now I’m operating from an entirely different direction.

536
00:47:34,744 –> 00:47:35,984
I don’t know if that made any sense.

537
00:47:36,724 –> 00:47:37,474
No, it did.

538
00:47:37,474 –> 00:47:38,604
I, I lo- I love it.

539
00:47:38,604 –> 00:47:44,240
For me, you’re, you’re expressing the difference between the overly used American love as a noun.

540
00:47:44,984 –> 00:47:45,443
Right.

541
00:47:45,443 –> 00:47:54,764
They’re almost always talking about a noun, and you’re talking about l- love as a verb in its many, many ass- You can conjugate a verb in a lot of different ways.

542
00:47:54,764 –> 00:47:55,193
Yeah.

543
00:47:55,193 –> 00:47:57,004
And I am totally with you on that.

544
00:47:57,004 –> 00:47:59,524
Did you ever read the book Islandia- I didn’t.

545
00:47:59,524 –> 00:48:01,004
by Austin Tapley Wright?

546
00:48:01,004 –> 00:48:02,244
No, I haven’t.

547
00:48:02,244 –> 00:48:02,474
I’m writing down.

548
00:48:02,474 –> 00:48:09,520
You should look it up, and if you can find a copy, which, it’s, it’s out of print, uh, i- if it’s A hundred bucks, it’s worth every penny.

549
00:48:10,784 –> 00:48:20,528.0000000004657
He creates a whole world in his imagination and he never wanted anyone to read it or never planned to, and his sister found it in the attic after he died.

550
00:48:21,563 –> 00:48:28,144
And there was literally tens of thousands of pages and the book was only about 10% of what he’d written.

551
00:48:29,144 –> 00:48:39,216
But in the book, much like the early Latin language or the Romans and the Greeks, love had 3 different aspects, agnē, arpeō, and alia.

552
00:48:39,844 –> 00:48:40,063
Mm-hmm.

553
00:48:40,063 –> 00:48:54,604.0000000004657
So a much richer understanding of the, you know, brother, sisterly love, passionate love, and then all-consuming, forward history, the past, you know, the future, the past, everything rolled up into one, that is the ultimate love.

554
00:48:54,604.0000000004657 –> 00:48:57,804
And that, in my opinion, is kind of what you’re talking about.

555
00:48:57,804 –> 00:48:58,160
Yeah.

556
00:48:59,324 –> 00:49:01,040
And it’s such a shame that we’ve lost that.

557
00:49:02,626 –> 00:49:02,703.9999999995343
Yeah.

558
00:49:02,703.9999999995343 –> 00:49:03,574
It’s, it’s- It’s not gone.

559
00:49:03,574 –> 00:49:03,984
one of

560
00:49:04,624 –> 00:49:08,080
It’s not gone, you’re absolutely right, and I feel like maybe

561
00:49:08,784 –> 00:49:15,304
It’s, it’s, like I said, when, when we got there, I was sitting there, I almost didn’t wanna get there.

562
00:49:15,304 –> 00:49:18,044
I didn’t wanna get there because I didn’t want it to think

563
00:49:18,044 –> 00:49:21,104.00000000046566
Because we always say, you know, “All you need is love,” and you have- Yeah, yeah, “All you need is love.”

564
00:49:21,104.00000000046566 –> 00:49:23,524
the Beatles and you have everybo- Exactly.

565
00:49:23,524 –> 00:49:29,104.00000000046566
And everybody’s just, like, talks about love and, like, Kumbaya and that’s the answer to the world and everything.

566
00:49:29,104.00000000046566 –> 00:49:31,844
And I was like, “Nah, it can’t be that way.

567
00:49:31,844 –> 00:49:34,928
That’s just so corny,” and whatever, but the answer is that.

568
00:49:36,004 –> 00:49:40,304
And, like I said, if you look at an ecosystem, is it a battle?

569
00:49:40,304 –> 00:50:10,624
To a certain extent, yes, there are battles going on, but even those come from a place of love in that expansive way, because it comes from a belief that the overall ecosystem, right, has these checks and balances and movement and moments of stability and all these different things that are happening, and that is the expression of love, is the, every single one of those beings being true to self and expressing themselves, and sometimes they, they, they, you know, crash into one another for a little bit

570
00:50:10,624 –> 00:50:19,363.00000000046566
and then they deal with that and then eventually move on, because they don’t permanently stay at war, which is something we, unfortunately, as humans, do.

571
00:50:19,363.00000000046566 –> 00:50:20,053
And it’s like

572
00:50:20,053 –> 00:50:25,864
And then there’s this, this ability to just ex- to, to live that curiosity.

573
00:50:25,864 –> 00:50:25,940
Yeah.

574
00:50:25,940 –> 00:50:30,640
Because when I have, when I’m not living out of fear, I can now live in that curiosity.

575
00:50:30,640 –> 00:50:33,720
I can live outside of those boundaries.

576
00:50:33,720 –> 00:50:42,180
I can live outside of my need to express only what I think somebody else wants to have.

577
00:50:42,180 –> 00:50:42,480
Yeah.

578
00:50:42,480 –> 00:50:44,260
It, it changes the narrative.

579
00:50:44,260 –> 00:50:46,060
Going back to your first one, right?

580
00:50:46,060 –> 00:50:46,940
All one thing, right?

581
00:50:46,940 –> 00:50:48,860
Imagine everything connected.

582
00:50:48,860 –> 00:50:53,780
I believe that when you are in that place, as corny as it might sound- Mm-hmm.

583
00:50:53,780 –> 00:51:01,820
when you are in that place, it is so much easier to not just imagine that everything is connected.

584
00:51:01,820 –> 00:51:07,640
I think that that’s the end goal where you end up which is, oh my God, the realization everything is connected.

585
00:51:07,640 –> 00:51:07,920
Yeah.

586
00:51:08,900 –> 00:51:09,960
Yeah, a- absolutely.

587
00:51:09,960 –> 00:51:17,488
The realization that everything is, and the best way to get there for any individual human is to play with it and practice in your mind where it’s non-threatening.

588
00:51:18,000 –> 00:51:18,220
Right.

589
00:51:18,220 –> 00:51:23,000
And get experience with it ’cause, you know, as they say, experience leads to confidence.

590
00:51:23,000 –> 00:51:28,160
Confidence leads to more experience and then finally mastery, and that is the key.

591
00:51:28,160 –> 00:51:31,806
If we wanna get there, we have to play with it a little bit in non-threatening ways.

592
00:51:32,580 –> 00:51:35,792
Yeah, and I love that for you, all of this started with a tiny little tulip.

593
00:51:36,700 –> 00:51:38,840
I still love the tulips.

594
00:51:38,840 –> 00:51:39,080
I know.

595
00:51:39,080 –> 00:51:40,240
You know, you mentioned the bulbs earlier.

596
00:51:40,240 –> 00:51:41,600
Can I talk about bulbs?

597
00:51:41,600 –> 00:51:43,080
Yeah, please.

598
00:51:43,080 –> 00:51:45,460
I didn’t know about the bulbs when I was a little kid.

599
00:51:45,460 –> 00:51:51,856
All I knew is that if I sat there long enough, my tulips would show up again and again and again and again.

600
00:51:52,480 –> 00:51:58,120
I didn’t know about the bulb until I got to Florida after 1969.

601
00:51:58,120 –> 00:52:05,400
We moved when I was seven, and that meant leaving my tulips behind because tulips don’t naturally occur in Florida.

602
00:52:05,400 –> 00:52:07,400
You buy the bulb- Right.

603
00:52:07,400 –> 00:52:09,744
and you plant it and you nurture it and you got your tulips.

604
00:52:10,500 –> 00:52:18,450
And so but th- then, it’s like, oh, this is a whole other level of awareness of my friend, the bulb, right?

605
00:52:18,450 –> 00:52:21,488
‘Cause d- I’m looking at the bulb and I’m going, there’s a tulip in there.

606
00:52:22,260 –> 00:52:23,120
Exactly.

607
00:52:25,840 –> 00:52:34,160
And I’m still young enough to not have the scientific understanding of it, and that’s fine because I much prefer the non-scientific understanding.

608
00:52:34,160 –> 00:52:37,456
I like the wonder of there’s a tu- I wonder what color it is.

609
00:52:38,100 –> 00:52:38,140
Mm-hmm.

610
00:52:38,140 –> 00:52:39,220
Is this gonna be a red one?

611
00:52:39,220 –> 00:52:44,060
Is this gonna be one of those orange ones with the stripes that looks like the sun?

612
00:52:44,060 –> 00:52:45,640
What’s this one gonna be?

613
00:52:45,640 –> 00:52:54,180
And I even tried to figure out by looking at the bulbs, could I predict what the next, what this one is, and I, I never could.

614
00:52:54,180 –> 00:52:54,480
No.

615
00:52:55,500 –> 00:52:56,160
No.

616
00:52:56,160 –> 00:52:57,540
But that’s that wonder, right?

617
00:52:57,540 –> 00:53:09,616
That understanding that there’s so much life inside of this thing, and I think it’s a, it’s a great also understanding, there’s so much life inside something that looks, looks to a certain extent dead, you know, looks- Yeah.

618
00:53:10,240 –> 00:53:18,130
like and, and how also, you know, the importance of giving yourself that space and that time for hibernation, especially in the creative world.

619
00:53:18,130 –> 00:53:18,720
Like- Yeah.

620
00:53:18,720 –> 00:53:20,960
you cannot create 24/7 nor should you.

621
00:53:20,960 –> 00:53:23,800
You need that time of reflection and all those- Yeah.

622
00:53:23,800 –> 00:53:26,600
There’s like so much there immersed- Yeah.

623
00:53:26,600 –> 00:53:28,100
inside of that bulb.

624
00:53:28,100 –> 00:53:29,860
There’s nourishment.

625
00:53:29,860 –> 00:53:33,200
There is taking care of the next generation.

626
00:53:33,200 –> 00:53:41,080
There is, uh, ability to expand and, you know, 0 all of what may come, like anticipation.

627
00:53:41,080 –> 00:53:44,580
There’s so many emotions inside of a bulb- Yeah.

628
00:53:44,580 –> 00:53:55,360
that, you know, you get to enjoy both, the, the beauty of the expression of that tulip and also what is in that potential, you might say.

629
00:53:55,360 –> 00:53:57,400
Yeah.

630
00:53:57,400 –> 00:53:59,000
I, I, I love it.

631
00:53:59,000 –> 00:53:59,480
I love it.

632
00:53:59,480 –> 00:54:02,700
I’ve, I never thought of tulips in Florida though, I have to admit.

633
00:54:02,700 –> 00:54:04,880
As a Florida girl, like tulips, no.

634
00:54:05,540 –> 00:54:05,920
that just feels like too far out.

635
00:54:05,920 –> 00:54:11,080
Well, you know, as they say, uh, I, and I hate to use that phrase today, say, “Who in the hell are they?”

636
00:54:11,080 –> 00:54:15,820
Um, yeah, um, uh, you never forget your first love.

637
00:54:15,820 –> 00:54:16,899
Exactly.

638
00:54:16,899 –> 00:54:17,120
Right?

639
00:54:17,120 –> 00:54:20,180
Because I, you know, tulips were my first love.

640
00:54:20,180 –> 00:54:27,500
I never, that’s when I was in Florida, and in fact in the book, Jonas has a moment in a coffee house in 1969.

641
00:54:27,500 –> 00:54:28,528.0000000004657
He’s the character in the book.

642
00:54:29,340 –> 00:54:34,160
There’s a girl on stage, 12, 13 years old, and she’s reading Tulips by Sylvia Plath.

643
00:54:34,779.9999999995343 –> 00:54:35,000
Mm.

644
00:54:35,000 –> 00:54:35,860
Do you know the poem?

645
00:54:35,860 –> 00:54:36,510
Yes, I do.

646
00:54:36,510 –> 00:54:38,100
It’s, it’s dark, it’s sad.

647
00:54:38,100 –> 00:54:38,620
It’s sad.

648
00:54:38,620 –> 00:54:39,504
And- Oh, Plath.

649
00:54:40,340 –> 00:54:41,040
Yeah.

650
00:54:41,040 –> 00:54:42,820
Well, she had every reason to be stupid.

651
00:54:42,820 –> 00:54:44,440
Exactly.

652
00:54:44,440 –> 00:54:58,360
So here I, here I am, Jonas, uh, this is one of the autobiographical moments from the book is that he, she’s reading this poem, and I know she’s talking about tulips, but I don’t understand the sadness.

653
00:54:58,360 –> 00:55:07,600
I do not understand at 7 what this poem is about because that’s not the tulips I know, and for her, it was something else entirely.

654
00:55:07,600 –> 00:55:08,656
But that’s when I wrote

655
00:55:09,340 –> 00:55:10,220.00000000046566
I misspoke earlier.

656
00:55:10,220.00000000046566 –> 00:55:13,260
I wrote those first 4 lines when I was 7, not when I was 4.

657
00:55:13,260 –> 00:55:17,008
I loved The Tulip at 4, stayed with me until 7 when I wrote those 4 lines.

658
00:55:17,986 –> 00:55:18,060
Right.

659
00:55:18,060 –> 00:55:33,580
And that was a big deal for me because that was the first time I realized that there’s a difference between every human being’s perception of anything, including themselves, and what another person could perceive of you and the thing that you’re perceiving, right?

660
00:55:33,580 –> 00:55:33,740
Right.

661
00:55:33,740 –> 00:55:40,208
There’s maybe no resemblance at all, and if you compare notes in a thoughtful way, there’s learning there.

662
00:55:41,080 –> 00:55:52,464
But to go back to the misuse of love, if you throw the word out and everybody makes an assumption what you mean, no one’s learned anything about what you think or feel about love.

663
00:55:53,779.9999999995343 –> 00:56:04,279.99999999953434
That’s why I like just the thought, uh, love that you brought up that we’re, we’re lazily using the root word of humanity’s connection to one another- Mm-hmm.

664
00:56:04,279.99999999953434 –> 00:56:06,740
you know, to get back to the Kumbaya moment.

665
00:56:06,740 –> 00:56:07,400
Yeah.

666
00:56:07,400 –> 00:56:08,190
<< Oh,

667
00:56:10,310 –> 00:56:14,110
Oh, I’m telling you, I struggled for a while ’cause I just kept

668
00:56:14,110 –> 00:56:15,230
I kept trying to avoid it.

669
00:56:15,230 –> 00:56:16,670
We were having that conversation-

670
00:56:16,670 –> 00:56:18,570
and I was like, “No, it can’t be.”

671
00:56:18,570 –> 00:56:19,300
And then I finally- I get it.

672
00:56:19,300 –> 00:56:19,970.0000000004657
had to call it out.

673
00:56:19,970.0000000004657 –> 00:56:21,392
I was like, “Oh my goodness, folks.

674
00:56:21,990 –> 00:56:26,672
Are you realizing that all of us have just gotten to unconditional love?”

675
00:56:27,310 –> 00:56:29,370
And everybody was like, “Oh my goodness.

676
00:56:29,370 –> 00:56:30,210
Yes.”

677
00:56:30,210 –> 00:56:30,400
Yeah.

678
00:56:30,400 –> 00:56:31,370
“That’s what I’m feeling.”

679
00:56:31,370 –> 00:56:35,210
We had been all trying to put different words into it, in different ways.

680
00:56:35,210 –> 00:56:36,010
Like, somebody through- Yeah.

681
00:56:36,010 –> 00:56:36,730
music.

682
00:56:36,730 –> 00:56:41,190
Mine, this plant doesn’t talk to me, I have to dance, so it’s about movement.

683
00:56:41,190 –> 00:56:41,690
Right.

684
00:56:41,690 –> 00:56:43,070
So for mine, it was movement.

685
00:56:43,070 –> 00:56:44,370
For one person, it was music.

686
00:56:44,370 –> 00:56:45,730
For another person, it was speaking.

687
00:56:45,730 –> 00:56:47,710
For another person, it was care in the forest.

688
00:56:47,710 –> 00:56:49,040
For another person, it was art.

689
00:56:49,630 –> 00:56:55,330
Each one of us had come at it from different angles, and we were like, “We’re at unconditional love, folks.”

690
00:56:55,330 –> 00:56:57,370
And they were all like, “Oh my goodness.

691
00:56:57,370 –> 00:56:58,270
Yes.”

692
00:56:58,270 –> 00:56:58,390
Mm-hmm.

693
00:56:58,390 –> 00:56:59,710
“Yes, yes.”

694
00:56:59,710 –> 00:57:03,152
But what a fun way to get to- It was wonderful.

695
00:57:03,874 –> 00:57:04,810
It was.

696
00:57:04,810 –> 00:57:05,010
Right?

697
00:57:05,010 –> 00:57:05,810
You could, you know

698
00:57:05,810 –> 00:57:11,510
You could go through years of talk therapy, not that there’s, there’s anything with that, it just doesn’t work for me.

699
00:57:11,510 –> 00:57:13,310
I’d much rather do what you did.

700
00:57:13,310 –> 00:57:14,29.99999999953434
Yeah.

701
00:57:14,29.99999999953434 –> 00:57:15,470.00000000046566
Have a relationship- Absolutely.

702
00:57:15,470.00000000046566 –> 00:57:15,824
with, you know

703
00:57:16,578 –> 00:57:16,630
Yeah.

704
00:57:16,630 –> 00:57:17,529.9999999995343
And that was, I think

705
00:57:17,529.9999999995343 –> 00:57:21,790
That is another, was another confirmation for me of this work that I do with plants- Yeah.

706
00:57:21,790 –> 00:57:26,680
where every one of us was working very closely with one particular plant person.

707
00:57:26,680 –> 00:57:29,610
We had chosen that person, that person had chosen us.

708
00:57:29,610 –> 00:57:43,210
We were all approaching it in different ways based on our own experiences and how important it is that, especially when it comes to this topic of love, I learned, at least in this, which was, oh my God, y- y- it

709
00:57:43,210 –> 00:57:52,310
Yeah, sure, okay, I can intellectualize it, but you have to touch other senses, you have to go through other ways to really get into it.

710
00:57:52,310 –> 00:58:01,710
Because when you just only approach it, going back to imagination, because our imagination is limited, especially in the world of love- Yeah.

711
00:58:01,710 –> 00:58:20,010
by the words themselves, when you approach it from that intellectual way, you mostly get derivatives, which are not always bad, because depending on what you’re trying to express, but you get derivatives of the love that we already kind of know, as opposed to approaching this where each one of us was working on different aspects of ourselves- Yeah.

712
00:58:20,010 –> 00:58:30,839
with these plant partners, we were able to get to a completely different understanding that was a embodied understanding of love, that and

713
00:58:30,839 –> 00:58:35,070
that unconditional love, that each one of us had to even express.

714
00:58:35,070 –> 00:58:45,010
Like, somebody had to list- have us listen to the music, another per- that they created together, and they were like, “This is my expression,” and another person wrote a poem.

715
00:58:45,010 –> 00:58:49,529.9999999995343
Like, almost none of us, it- it could put it into simple words.

716
00:58:49,529.9999999995343 –> 00:58:53,270
We had to express it, and then- Yeah.

717
00:58:53,270 –> 00:58:55,696
you know, group it together to find there.

718
00:58:56,510 –> 00:58:58,010
So, it w- it was wonderful.

719
00:58:58,010 –> 00:59:01,650
Mark, this has been such a delightful conversation- Yes, it has.

720
00:59:01,650 –> 00:59:02,992
as we wrap things up.

721
00:59:04,050 –> 00:59:06,630
A few, 2, 2 kind of last pieces.

722
00:59:06,630 –> 00:59:07,792
1, what are

723
00:59:08,339 –> 00:59:13,630
What do you want everybody, an- anybody who’s listening to this, for you, what would be like

724
00:59:13,630 –> 00:59:18,895.9999999995343
If you walk away with one thing of everything we said, here’s the piece that I really want you to walk away with?

725
00:59:22,070 –> 00:59:22,448
Yeah.

726
00:59:23,570 –> 00:59:34,352
That we’re all capable, using our imagination, to be a part of a movement to reconnect to each other.

727
00:59:35,490 –> 00:59:35,570
Mm-hmm.

728
00:59:35,570 –> 00:59:37,330
We all have that built in already.

729
00:59:37,330 –> 00:59:38,650
It’s already a skill.

730
00:59:38,650 –> 00:59:40,040
You just gotta practice it.

731
00:59:40,040 –> 00:59:41,712
It’s already an ability, not a skill.

732
00:59:42,250 –> 00:59:43,024
It’s an ability.

733
00:59:44,578 –> 00:59:45,330
Beautiful.

734
00:59:45,330 –> 00:59:46,064
Be a part of it.

735
00:59:46,950 –> 00:59:47,990
Yay.

736
00:59:47,990 –> 00:59:49,490
And then- And set down your screens.

737
00:59:49,490 –> 00:59:49,899
Stop being-

738
00:59:49,899 –> 00:59:51,600
influenced by screens.

739
00:59:53,490 –> 00:59:53,650
Yeah.

740
00:59:53,650 –> 00:59:55,430
Except to watch this podcast.

741
00:59:55,430 –> 00:59:56,050
Exactly.

742
00:59:56,050 –> 00:59:58,450
Just listen to the podcast, then go outside.

743
00:59:58,450 –> 00:59:59,430
Do something else-

744
00:59:59,430 –> 01:00:00,040
afterwards.

745
01:00:00,040 –> 01:00:03,150
It’s totally understandable.

746
01:00:03,150 –> 01:00:16,640
I find, I find that, um, I have this really skewed way of looking at things, because when people talk about, you know, like, using technology too much, I- I’ve, been working with technology since 1997, so I’ve spent a lot of time in- Yeah.

747
01:00:16,640 –> 01:00:17,570
technology.

748
01:00:17,570 –> 01:00:19,650
But at the same time, I live in community.

749
01:00:19,650 –> 01:00:23,550
I spend a frick load of a mod of time with other people- There’s a balance there.

750
01:00:23,550 –> 01:00:24,710
in connection.

751
01:00:24,710 –> 01:00:25,300
Exactly.

752
01:00:25,300 –> 01:00:29,770
And that’s the part that I think w- we might be the better key.

753
01:00:29,770 –> 01:00:33,790
I sometimes wonder if it’s not so much, like, “Put down your screen,” but more like- I know.

754
01:00:33,790 –> 01:00:34,940
“How are you”

755
01:00:34,940 –> 01:00:38,980
Yeah, “Where are you connect-” Like, “Where are you connected in other ways as well?”

756
01:00:38,980 –> 01:00:39,080
Yeah.

757
01:00:39,080 –> 01:00:40,120
You know, “Are you

758
01:00:40,120 –> 01:00:41,040
Do you have connections?”

759
01:00:41,040 –> 01:00:46,860
Like, I went, like I said, on this beautiful hike to the Valmalena on Sunday, and it was gorgeous.

760
01:00:46,860 –> 01:00:49,200
You know, I spent, uh, in, what was it?

761
01:00:49,200 –> 01:00:50,460
From, like, 9:00 A.M.

762
01:00:50,460 –> 01:00:53,840
to pretty much, like, 2:00 P.M.

763
01:00:53,840 –> 01:00:58,500
with a group of people in nature with moments of silence and moments of talking.

764
01:00:58,500 –> 01:01:06,940
And, you know, you have that, and we do all these other things that we do as groups and in connection and in community, and I have a lot of community connections online.

765
01:01:06,940 –> 01:01:08,550
I’m not just scrolling alone.

766
01:01:08,550 –> 01:01:08,870
And so- Yeah.

767
01:01:08,870 –> 01:01:18,200
I think going back to what, you know, your create- uh, Creative Humanity Alliance, it’s all about human connection and how it doesn’t matter the medium.

768
01:01:18,200 –> 01:01:19,980
The question is not, “Are you scrolling?

769
01:01:19,980 –> 01:01:21,440
Are you online or not online?

770
01:01:21,440 –> 01:01:23,700
Are you on a technology medium or not?”

771
01:01:23,700 –> 01:01:27,080
It’s, “Are you making genuine connections?”

772
01:01:27,080 –> 01:01:30,760
If you’re just consuming- Yeah, scrolling towards something rather than away from something.

773
01:01:30,760 –> 01:01:31,400
Exactly.

774
01:01:31,400 –> 01:01:32,260
That’s my phrase.

775
01:01:32,260 –> 01:01:32,700
I love that.

776
01:01:32,700 –> 01:01:35,740
I’m always like, “You have to be moving towards something, not running away from it.”

777
01:01:35,740 –> 01:01:36,230
That’s what the- Yes.

778
01:01:36,230 –> 01:01:37,580
plants have taught me.

779
01:01:37,580 –> 01:01:39,920
And the second thing is, how do people get in touch with you?

780
01:01:39,920 –> 01:01:41,264
Where do they find you?

781
01:01:42,880 –> 01:01:43,500
Yeah.

782
01:01:43,500 –> 01:01:52,400
Uh, I, I normally say markfeuerhammer.com, but in this case and in this conversation, the best place to go is creativehumanityalliance.org.

783
01:01:53,240 –> 01:01:53,320
I’m in.

784
01:01:53,320 –> 01:01:53,340
Of course.

785
01:01:53,340 –> 01:01:56,280
Because you can get to everything from there.

786
01:01:56,280 –> 01:01:56,640
Perfect.

787
01:01:56,640 –> 01:02:08,750
But the f- the takeaway that I want people to make is go there, look at it, not necessarily for your own, “Yeah, I wanna become a maker, and I wanna contribute to the Alliance.”

788
01:02:08,750 –> 01:02:11,952
“Who do I know that is looking for this?”

789
01:02:12,740 –> 01:02:12,940
Hmm.

790
01:02:12,940 –> 01:02:21,960
Because it’s a reorientation of the role of artists away from commercial, you know, make for the market, and instead, make for humanity.

791
01:02:21,960 –> 01:02:32,780
And with commitments from companies like Google, we can put the word out about everything that we create as an alliance at their expense, right?

792
01:02:32,780 –> 01:02:49,760
And that’s what I want people to understand is, whoever you know that’s frustrated because their paintings, their stories, their books, their art, just there’s no opportunity for them, I want them to keep doing what they’re doing, but I also want them to join the Alliance.

793
01:02:49,760 –> 01:02:56,900
And let’s magnify our abilities by all focusing on one thing for a few minutes of our talented days.

794
01:02:56,900 –> 01:03:08,900
You don’t have to dedicate your life to it, but if everybody puts in 10 minutes or an hour or 2 or whatever, uh, we can create something that’s already become quite compelling.

795
01:03:08,900 –> 01:03:10,300
It’s only gonna expand from there.

796
01:03:10,300 –> 01:03:12,016
So creativehumanityalliance.org.

797
01:03:13,220 –> 01:03:13,920
Perfect.

798
01:03:13,920 –> 01:03:16,240
I will make sure that I include that into the show notes.

799
01:03:16,240 –> 01:03:21,740
I’ll also, of course, put a look- link to your book because, you know, people need to be able to find that quickly.

800
01:03:21,740 –> 01:03:21,829
Thank you.

801
01:03:21,829 –> 01:03:21,870
Yes, I appreciate it.

802
01:03:21,870 –> 01:03:24,200
I wanna make it as easy as possible.

803
01:03:24,200 –> 01:03:27,600
And I- And if anybody reads it and doesn’t like it, I will buy it back.

804
01:03:29,058 –> 01:03:29,960
That’s wonderful.

805
01:03:29,960 –> 01:03:30,160
Right?

806
01:03:30,160 –> 01:03:30,910
Because I like giving away.

807
01:03:30,910 –> 01:03:33,860
So look, guaranteed, guaranteed.

808
01:03:33,860 –> 01:03:34,670
There’s no risk.

809
01:03:34,670 –> 01:03:35,280
Absolutely guaranteed.

810
01:03:35,280 –> 01:03:35,590
No risk.

811
01:03:35,590 –> 01:03:36,784
But wait, that’s not all.

812
01:03:39,300 –> 01:03:40,020
I love it.

813
01:03:40,020 –> 01:03:40,880
I love it.

814
01:03:40,880 –> 01:03:42,100
Thank you so much, Mark.

815
01:03:42,100 –> 01:03:44,960
This has been such a delightful conversation.

816
01:03:44,960 –> 01:03:47,950
I am, I’m just, I, I’m thrilled.

817
01:03:47,950 –> 01:03:50,280
This is gonna be, this is orienting the rest of my day.

818
01:03:50,280 –> 01:03:51,320
I already had a good morning.

819
01:03:51,320 –> 01:03:56,010
I had a, a meeting that went way better than I thought it was gonna go, and now this.

820
01:03:56,010 –> 01:03:56,860
And I’m like, “Oh.”

821
01:03:56,860 –> 01:04:01,980
And the sun just came out after pouring rain and gloom all day yesterday.

822
01:04:01,980 –> 01:04:02,829
I’m beautiful.

823
01:04:02,829 –> 01:04:02,860
Oh, beautiful.

824
01:04:02,860 –> 01:04:03,320
That’s it.

825
01:04:03,320 –> 01:04:04,540
I’m, I’m happy.

826
01:04:04,540 –> 01:04:07,300
I’m, I’m just gonna tip my hat there.

827
01:04:07,300 –> 01:04:08,600
I’m like, “Okay, this is it.”

828
01:04:08,600 –> 01:04:10,000
“This is the best.”

829
01:04:10,000 –> 01:04:14,000
Well, you’re welcome, uh, and thank you for having me and doing the work that you do, Tigrilla.

830
01:04:14,000 –> 01:04:14,660
Yeah.

831
01:04:14,660 –> 01:04:16,144
Thank you so much.

832
01:04:16,680 –> 01:04:16,750
Yeah.

833
01:04:16,750 –> 01:04:17,008
All right.

834
01:04:18,579 –> 01:04:30,260
So as you move through the rest of your day, I would love for you to notice where imagination wants to reconnect what’s been divided inside you, around you, within the ecosystems that you touch.

835
01:04:30,260 –> 01:04:53,320
If today’s conversation stirred something, a curiosity to listen deeper, to reconnect to parts of yourself, to remember the subtle ways you already belong, you’ll love the practical tools to connect to your intuition in my recent workshop, Awaken Dormant Aura Layers with Plant Support, which is a part of the Reconnect With Plant Kin Series.

836
01:04:53,320 –> 01:05:06,240
In it, we worked directly with plant allies to sense and strengthen the subtle layers and reconnect to abilities your soul has mastered so imagination isn’t just a thought.

837
01:05:06,240 –> 01:05:08,432
It becomes an embodied practice.

838
01:05:09,340 –> 01:05:23,820
You can access the replay of that workshop along with all of the past and future sessions, because this is a workshop and a workshop series that I do every month when you join Blooming Sprouts in the Naturally Conscious community.

839
01:05:23,820 –> 01:05:26,760
All the details, as always, are in the description.

840
01:05:26,760 –> 01:05:33,560
So come tend the layers of your own energy, and let’s see what, what’s ready to bloom, right?

841
01:05:33,560 –> 01:05:39,600
And as always, remember to resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

842
01:05:39,600 –> 01:05:42,960
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Reconnect With Plant Wisdom.

843
01:05:43,460 –> 01:05:53,840
To continue these conversations, join us in the Naturally Conscious community, your premier online ecosystem for plant reawakening and accelerated evolution and co-creation with other kin.

844
01:05:54,440 –> 01:06:03,856
Here, you’ll find expansive discussions, interactive courses, live events, and supportive group programs like the Plant Wisdom Book Club and the Sprouts Writing and Creativity Group.

845
01:06:04,500 –> 01:06:09,760
Connect with like-minded individuals collaborating with plants to integrate these insights into life.

846
01:06:09,760 –> 01:06:14,860
Intro and outro music by Steve Sciulli and Poinsettia from The Singing Life of Plants.

847
01:06:14,860 –> 01:06:18,460
That’s it for me, Tigrilla Gardenia, and my plant collaborators.

848
01:06:18,460 –> 01:06:22,640
Until next time, remember, resist the urge to hold back your emerging green brilliance.

849
01:06:23,260 –> 01:06:23,960
I’m out.

850
01:06:23,960 –> 01:06:24,574
Bye.