Ep.67 Eternal Forest with Evgenia Emets

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Hello! Hello! Hello! Everyone! Welcome back to another episode of reconnect with plant wisdom. It’s me Tigrilla Gardenia, and this is going to be such

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a chock full episode. You are going to absolutely love it. I am interviewing Eve, Evegnia Emets’s.

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and there’s just so much to say about her. Look her up. She is filled. She has all these projects. She is an artist, she is a poet, she does interspecies work. It’s really quite fascinating. And one of the things I loved about this conversation with a Evegnia is that when she is called in by a plant in order to work with them, and also land and forests in general. She works a lot with forests.

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One of the questions that she starts with was, What is the message? What is it that you want me to share.

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And then she asks

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how. And this is really what we’re going to talk about. We’re talking so much about what it is that the plants have been telling her to share through this artwork, through these partnerships and this co-creation with art. But, more importantly, how how is it that the plants

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want this to come out in order to be able to really reach the general public that needs to see this work. So there’s us, this pretty, this very, very deep

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relationship that she forms with the plants. But you know what I could probably sit here and try to explain it. But let’s just let her do it in her own words. So this is

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episode 67. Eternal forest with Evgenia emmets. Enjoy

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welcome to reconnect with plant wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia nature inspired mentor and leadership coach. In this podcast I share ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality, about the wondrous ways in which plants can help you lead a naturally conscious life.

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All right. If, Evegnia, I am so excited. This is one of those conversations I never thought I would be having. Because I have actually seen your work multiple times in different conferences I’ve participated in, or you know different things around the Internet. And I was like, well, I’ll reach out to her and see if she’s interested in coming on the podcast so I’m so excited to have you here, but for those people that don’t know who you are. Who is Evegnia?

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Okay, thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me here. I’m also very excited to be here. I think we can have a lovely conversation today. See, let’s see what emerges. So I’m an artist. I’m a poet. I work with

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plant ecology, with forests, with biodiversity, and my main project is eternal forest, which is kind of ongoing

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project that I took up

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upon my kind of in my life. It emerged 6 years ago.

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and so I would say, I’m founder and

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space holder for this project to then create like a vehicle and a possibility for other people to step in, and I guess we can explain a little bit also later what it is

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I. So one of the things I’m really curious about is, you know. How did you start working with plants like, where did the whole impetus for? Let me, I want to bring the voice of plants

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to my work. How did that start?

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Yeah. So

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it kind of emerged spontaneously when I got interested in forests. Because I guess forest is a very complex being right? So we have

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the whole ecosystem, which has many different elements. It has the plants, the trees, the macariza, the all the

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fungi, and the animal realm, and and it’s endless everything that’s underneath the soil and above the soil and in all different realms and elements.

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But I guess that

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I have been drawn to working

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at the beginning, much more with plants. And still because probably as a child, I have been interacting a lot with plants because of my grandmother and her kind of interest in medicinal plants and growing things as well, and I guess this is

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my way of trying to understand

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the complexity of the ecosystem, starting with something that’s closer to me, closer to my experience and my understanding. So at the beginning it was quite intuitive.

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It’s still quite intuitive process. But I’m engaging much more

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with scientific realm, with botany.

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always

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trying to understand how plants behave.

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how they learn and how they act

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and in terms of

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again, like going back a little bit. How it started within eternal forest project, I guess that

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trees actually started approaching me.

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So what happened is.

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I started having dreams

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in which trees appeared as actors.

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and they would

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show in a very, very symbolic way

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certain aspects of

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the message that they wanted to communicate, and then I would have to decipher this message.

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And so it started happening with periodicity, with some periods of time. And

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I started engaging with

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those trees. I kind of recognized what the trees were.

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and I started engaging with them through writing poetry and through trying to transmit the messages that they were bringing through these dreams.

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And now I’m learning, and I’m understanding that I think plant realm not only plant realm, but in my case the realm of plants

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it. They know how we perceive the world, and they know how each of us

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is best tuned to receive information and knowledge. So

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what I figured out is that because I’m so tuned in with my dreams, and I like to

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have dreams, and I think about them a lot. And then I

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kind of connect with them and try to understand how it connects with everything that I’m doing.

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They

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access my consciousness in dreams, and they appear in a very specific way without talking, without explaining anything. It’s just in a very symbolic way, but they give certain clues. And so

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this is how I guess that maybe I can also listen to them like tune in with them and listen to them in waking life. Well, waking, dreaming life. It’s all really a bit of a blur. But let’s say in what we perceive as waking life. And so I started sitting with them and asking them questions and asking them also to guide me.

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I love this because this is one of the things I love about this work is that it confirms what, from a spiritual perspective. We hear and we teach, and when I hear people who experience it, it just for me brings everything together, because even here at Daener we talk a lot about the fact that plants, because they have this access to our emotional states they can

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connect can find the way that you best connect with the plant in question, and so that could be through your emotions and your memories, and oftentimes your dreams. And I love what you said about how this particular tree found. Oh, she’s an active dreamer, therefore I’m going to go with dreams so you could go in the

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like you said, somewhat waking realm, and say, here are my questions. Here are the things I really want to know and know that maybe some answers are going to come while you’re there. But another piece of those answers are going to come in the dream realm, and I think that’s so important for us to remember that each one of us will connect in with a plant in a different way. And to allow that to unfold. Yeah.

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do you? Do you find that the answers are different, like for what you receive in other ways to what you receive in dreams.

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Yeah, because in dreams.

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personally, I’m more

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relaxed

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and let go. Well, not that I’m more or less relaxed, but I completely let go, and

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I’m very open.

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so I think there are less filters.

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or maybe there are filters, but different kinds of filters, so I think the consciousness behaves in a very, very different way.

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But also

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there is like such an interesting bridge. I had this.

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so I had this situation once when

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yeah, I basically couldn’t get home

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on an airplane like the airplane was delayed. And I really wanted to go home, and I was a little bit upset about it, and I wasn’t sure why this happened, so they put me up in this hotel, and so I had to spend one night extra night in this country before going back to Portugal, and at night I’m having this dream

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about this very, very beautiful tree with white flowers.

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The tree is basically. And and then the tree takes me to this kind of other part of the story where I see a family

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that

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is looking for some kind of object.

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And

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I have. I have the object, and they’re they are very attached to the object. It’s like a whole history for them.

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And basically, when I woke up, I realized that the piece of jewelry I had with me from Morocco that my husband gave to me before. My trip

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is completely loaded with like unresolved history.

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and I’ve been given instructions what to actually do with this object, so they can release themselves from the object, and I can release myself from

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this connection. And so when I arrived, I went, and I put this piece of jewelry through the 4 elements, and so I cleansed it.

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But but somehow my connection is always through some kind of a plant, and sometimes they’re metaphorical plants.

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and sometimes they are

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very concrete plants.

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So before I started working with the eucalyptus plant

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which.

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living in Portugal, I didn’t want to work with eucalyptus at the beginning, because it’s a very contested subject. We have those monocultures of eucalyptus. I wanted to focus on biodiverse forest, but the tree kind of kept, you know, whispering to me every time I passed the tree in my wake in life, and one day I have this dream of

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a eucalypt rainbow eucalyptus tree which actually exists in Australia, appearing in my dream as a sacred tree, adorned with all kinds of

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beautiful objects. So it’s definitely a tree that other people give.

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you know, meaning and respect to.

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And the tree is basically telling me I gotta work with eucalyptus trees.

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So

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that’s how my process started. I had this kind of confirmation that it’s okay

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in my negotiation, then.

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with

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this family of plants was that

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they have to help me to figure out

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how to do this work in such a way that people would understand, and the trees themselves can pass the message easily

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and clearly through me to the people. So

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in many situations, on many occasions. I’m asking the plants to not just tell me what they want, but also show me how they want it.

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So it’s like being with the person. You know we have relationship.

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How do you like it? What do you like? And what is your preference in the moment? Because they’re also living, you know, in the moment, just like us that time.

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their time scale and their time perception is very different from us. I call it forest time.

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and I appreciate that sometimes we have to align those spectra of time

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between us, the trees, the rocks, maybe little plants that have different cycle. They have their own time.

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So this is very interesting, because for me, that shift in perception and that possibility to collaborate and to listen deeply.

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to be able to collaborate is a lot about shifting the perspective of time.

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And I think this is such an important point, because I think for many people, when you 1st start working with a plant, you know. I remember when I was at Chelsea Flower Show, and here I am with these 4 plants that were performing with the music of the plants, and

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people just kept coming up to talk about how they talked to their plants. And so when I created my 1st course, for example, reconnect with the plant kingdom. The big emphasis for me was about

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the two-way conversation the fact that it isn’t just about listening. Yes, it’s true that plants have a different relationship with time. They have a different perspective. They have so much more history still embodied. But that doesn’t mean they’re omnipotent. That doesn’t mean they’re all powerful, and that can know everything, and therefore, and they don’t know what it’s like to be human

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as much as some plants have spent a lot of time with humans. It’s still not the same thing. And so it always has to be a conversation that happens. So I love that you ask them directly. Okay, I’m listening. I see now that I have to work with you. But please recognize that it’s not just about you telling me and then me trying to figure out how to say this to the world. I need you to work with me here. Tell me what I’m supposed to do with this? How do I make this comprehensible

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which brings me to? I’ve seen a lot of your different artwork.

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and I I really enjoy the

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the fact that there are elements of it that feel.

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How do I say this? Not literal, but, like, you know, more traditional looking to what a person would see, like your latest manifesto type piece.

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And then there’s other parts. That’s very much. I need to sit with this and interpret it.

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How does that come about. And where do the words fit in? Because there’s not always words. But sometimes there are words. So how does that process work with the plants?

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Yeah, this is an interesting part of the puzzle, because, of course, they have their own language.

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and we have our own language, and

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how to understand their language and how to.

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I don’t want to say, interpret, but connect it with the human language, especially in such a way that other humans

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can perceive it and can

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understand. And

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yeah, be inspired or learn something.

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So.

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for example.

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so I was working on this project called

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for us time, and part of the project has 2 parts. One part I did in

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a forest park in Lisbon.

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called Monsanto Forest Park, that is 90 years old, and there the work was focused on the forest ecosystem and different elements that are important for

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a rich biodiverse, strong, healthy ecosystem, and the other part was in it’s called tashtufa. So it’s the

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garden of tropical plants in Lisbon, very special place.

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And as I walked 1st time into this place, I thought to myself.

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Well, there is like thousands of plants here. How I’m going to figure out which I’m going to work with.

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And what is the story? So I came

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with a story that I wanted to explore as an artist and as a human being. And that was this story of

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this

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putting plants in boxes of our own kind of concepts, saying, Well, this plant is native, this plant is local, this plant is exotic, and this plant is invasive.

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I never liked that approach. I thought.

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it’s very

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violent.

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And so I thought to myself, well, I would like to work along the lines of these subjects and this kind of

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different concepts, and how we can overcome this.

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But as I walked into the space I actually gave myself time to just ask, say, well, what do you want me to do here? What is your message that you want to?

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Pass to the people to communicate?

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M.

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And I load myself

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a few days, just walk and sit with plants in a completely intuitive way without reading the plugs. So, without knowing what the plant is.

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and just observing my own

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state of mind, as I would sit next to a plant that I would be drawn to.

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I did my best, trying not to judge, and there was this situation, which, of course I laughed afterwards about, but at the beginning I really couldn’t understand what was going on. So I sat for about 1 h and a half with one specific plant.

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It’s a bush with bright green leaves, very light color.

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And at the time it had these violet flowers.

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and I thought to myself, okay. It’s a very pretty plant, maybe not some something or someone I would like to work with. It kind of looks a bit decorative. And

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you know, it’s like too pretty. Maybe.

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So, you know, like how humans we can judge and plants they all like. If you’re sensitive and open-minded, they would tell you that they would give it back to you. Right? They would say, Okay, here we go. So I sat and you know, and wrote a couple of things and meditated and drank my tea, and then went off and went back to the studio. That night I couldn’t sleep.

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It was this kind of state of mind.

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and the state of whole being. Not just mind, I mean it. It was very expensive state. My heart was open. I was lying there wide awake, thinking, Okay, what’s happening? It was kind of dream, awake state together.

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But seeing seeing this lush forest that I didn’t know.

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and also sensing a lot of movement in my body.

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and I slept very little that night. But I kind of I rested, and next day I was so curious, I thought to myself, okay, I have to go back and maybe even try to figure out what the plant is. So then I go back and I read everything about this plant, and I sit with it again. And I ask, like, what’s the deal here? You know? What’s the story? What do you want me to do?

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And it turns out that the plant

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is called Brundfel Eifolia.

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So it’s Chiric Sonanga, and

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in Portuguese and in English and in European countries is called yesterday today and tomorrow, because the flower of this plant goes through 3 different colors. So it’s

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deeper violet and then lighter violet, and then it turns white when it finishes blossoming. And also then I figured out that that was not written anyway, that the smell changes completely through these 3 stages

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and turns out that this plant is a master plant

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in the Amazon region.

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and

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certain shamans are using or working with this plant with chiric sonanga in the way of the yeta.

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the plant is toxic, so you must be very careful, and so on, and certain shamans are even using the plant together with a via ceremony.

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So.

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and then I read, of course, a little bit more. There’s not so much known about her, but she’s really a heart opener.

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and that was right. At the beginning of my so-called Art Residency, where I just stepped into that space, and that changed my perspective completely, because I already knew it with my

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mind, with my thinking mind. But that experience really opened completely me to

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what happened further. And then there were many more surprises, because

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the way everything shifted is I stopped seeing this place as just a beautiful garden of tropical plants from all over the world, tropical, and not only from all over the world, and I started seeing it as this living, breathing, ecosystemic library of information, knowledge, medicine, food, its richness, and also its

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unknowingness. Or an

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it’s this whole unknown that we don’t know, because we are not told these stories because A, we are not listening to the plants. B. We are not interested in indigenous traditions coming together with these plants as matrix, because plants. Of course, they remember all those interactions with people, and they bring this memory with them. That was very crystal clear to me. And the 3rd

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aspect of this unknowing, this, this ignorance, is that

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none of the amazing, very knowledgeable technical stuff in this that’s working, that the people. They don’t tell you the stories because they don’t know, because they never researched it, because that has not been the focus. So that really shifted my perspective. And that really opened.

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you know my mind to be with them in a completely different way.

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Well, and I also love the fact that you had to. It sounds like

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go beyond even appearance, and I know that I experience that I am here in Davenport. Teach a class called communication with the plant world. It’s a really great course that’s very focused on the communication part. So working with different plants across the span of multiple days to learn how to listen, how to hear, how to find, how to experience.

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And one of the 1st 1st 1st 1st exercises that I do is remove your sense of sight like bandage you like. Put a bandage over your eyes, and have you experience plants without the seeing.

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because we rely so much on our seeing, and we really think that seeing defines the plant. So if the plant is a huge, amazing tree, that must mean that that tree has huge, amazing energy. But sometimes you have these tiny little trees like, we’re tiny little plants. I’ve brought in very small plants. I used to keep notes.

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I always have kept notes of like these are the plants I’ve worked with. And this is what people say. And it’s amazing how people can feel that energy right away. And oftentimes it has nothing to do with how the plant actually looks like the plant might be. Something looks really small. And then they’re and everybody says, I feel this big red energy, and it’s.

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you know, totally green plant that doesn’t flower at all. But it’s it’s about connecting and allowing yourself that permission to 1st fill in, and then saying, Who are you? Who have you been, and and why? Why do you want to connect with me? What is it that’s here? And then finding out, like you said, all that knowledge. And it’s amazing to me how many times I’ve been in in.

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you know, different Botanical Gardens, or in other kinds of parks where people just learn the technical information. And you they don’t give themselves that chance to really

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enter into a relationship with the plant.

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Yeah, I agree. And what I wanted to add at this point as well is because, of course, after

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after this kind of interaction.

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I would do a extra research. So I would always I I don’t. I think there is no conflict between

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what we know as technical information, scientific information, knowledge like very mainstream knowledge from medicinal properties of plants. That’s all great. But I always say, and that’s what they taught me, that

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there is always

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this particular present moment.

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and the interaction, or the meeting. This encounter with the plant is in the present moment.

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and the medicine

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that

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sometimes the plant will offer you

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can be totally different for different person. It’s not the same for everybody. Of course there are plants that have such a broad spectrum like mint, like

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Telia, the linden tree, and so on. But even then, there are moments and moments, and there are. There is medicine and medicine. And

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another thing that I learned during this experience was that

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we don’t have to ingest the plant.

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or we don’t always have to ingest the plan. I think this is a very big

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confusion of our culture. Of course. Now everybody is doing kakao, which does not even exist. A kakao ceremony. I’m trying to tell people who, offering it, not not such a thing doesn’t exist

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in traditional culture.

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Ayaska ceremony. So all of these things, it’s very much

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kind of all marketable things and very commercial. And I would say, people need to be very, very careful what they’re doing, because

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I asked several plants that were under question. Do I need to do this? And they say, No, you don’t.

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because so they always explain why, and they always say when is going to be the time, or perhaps I need to wait. But I always ask them first.st They are. They are the. They are the teachers.

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they know better. And this is

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this is such an important piece that keeps coming up over and over again with all of my guests.

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The fact that you could even you could learn the broad properties. But that’s not the same as I go outside, and I sit with the rosemary bush

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that’s growing right by my house, and I sit with Rosemary, and Rosemary says to me.

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oh, I can help you with this, and sometimes it’s like you said Ingesting. Sometimes it’s just bring me home and sit with me, or come here every day and spend time with me, and I’m going to share that, and that keeps coming up from guest to guest to guest. And even, you know all of these

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like you, said commercial ceremonies. I myself have also been involved with them. I think it was really beautiful. I did speak to somebody who works with cacao, and we never talked about like the cacao ceremony. What I loved as she talked about was sitting with cacao every day spending time with cacao every day lending yourself create a relationship with this plant.

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And I think we are missing out on that for the people who maybe feel more insecure, they’re not sure. So they want to go to somebody who’s going to show them.

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And the biggest thing is the relationship with the plant takes time, and you have to give yourself time. And that’s why you said it changes your entire perspective of time, too, because you tap into this sort of ancient relationship.

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And all of these concepts of time is, you know, 60 seconds for a minute, and this is what that means and what that looks like goes out the window, and you find yourself in this kind of a time island

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that you can then experience with in the now

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and then. You know that there’s ancient connections. You feel that. But you also know you’re in the present moment, and that this particular plant has both

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knowledge that comes from the ancestry, but also a lived experience in the place that the plant currently is, and what that plant wants to share with you is a reminder that you, too, have that

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like you were saying, we have lost all of those ancient connections, to our cultures and to our past lives, and to whatever we’ve experienced. And so, therefore, we live dreaming like fantasizing about the past and dreaming about the future, and we forget to be in the now, because we don’t know how to bring together those parts of ourselves. And I think that that’s a really important piece

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that I do see across your work. You know, eternal forest and rewilding time. I see this desire to encourage people to see a plant over a period of time in order to better see yourself over a period of time.

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Yes, and actually, maybe, as we are speaking here on time, maybe I can read one poem.

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Oh, I’d love that share, one of them

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which

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which also is interesting.

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about a few years ago I was working in on one project, and

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it’s a very particular place in Portugal. Very dry. Very

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well, it’s already on the way to desert. But I was there with a regenerative project, observing how they work, and really trying to see how I can also participate as an artist.

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and there I was really interested in the perspective of the land.

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And how the land is this living being, and is present.

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and how she has all these scars carries all these different scars from our main, our activity, but also

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how she can speak.

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And since then. So I asked, How do you want me to write about you? And she said, Well, you must write from my perspective in my voice, and from then on. That was 2020, I believe, and from then on I have been writing from perspective of plants, trees, forest species.

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I think this has been another shift in my work.

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and I find it very interesting, that

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difference between descriptive poetry or kind of poetry that maybe invokes

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to

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writing and poetry when we offer our voice and our body and our writing

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to others, and they can. So of course, there’s always us there. We cannot remove ourselves completely. That would be impossible, but

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because we offer them like a space.

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and they borrow our voice. Then maybe something else can happen. And I’m very interested in that intersection. How if I offer plant my voice and my time. How would they

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structure that message that they want to pass?

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And this poem I wrote, it’s from the perspective of the land.

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but you could also think about a tree, or a forest or ecosystem anything.

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My time is not your time.

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my time is wisdom

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coiled beneath the roots.

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My time is light, the one you know as food.

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My time is seed

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that knows how long it’s due.

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My time is backwards

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from the future towards you.

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My time is you

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the fish within my stream?

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My time is soil.

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the keeper

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of your dream.

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So I like playing with this. These notions of you know who is who, and

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playing with this different spectra of time. I think, as humans, we don’t do it enough.

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I think we definitely forget

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about

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everything that exists on like a shorter span of time.

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And kind of

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don’t notice them so much. And then everything that exists on longer spectrum of time. I think it’s very hard for us to relate. So

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yeah, with the tunnel forest, we definitely trying to shift that perspective.

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especially towards the long term

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and towards like 1,000 years, mark and beyond, to kind of open up a bit imagination that I think humans

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had.

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because we managed somehow to build all these cathedrals that span.

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you know. 3, 400 years people have been building generation after generation, and they managed to finish those incredible masterpieces.

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But somewhere along the way we kind of lost touch with this deeper time, with geological time, with time of nature, forest time.

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So yes, I imagine that now it’s really good moment to

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it to

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activate that sinking in our culture. Because I think

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a lot will depend on our how we project ourselves in the future

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and act upon that, and also how we see what the the following generations, our

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grandchildren.

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how they will receive

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the world. Right? Right? You’ve mentioned a few different pieces you’ve talked about, for example, biological scientific knowledge. You’ve talked about geological time. You’ve also talked about the indigenous knowledge and a more kind of almost spiritual and metaphysical

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perspective. And you’ve brought these and woven these all together through the arts. And so I have to ask you

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about consciousness, since it’s such a big debate in a lot of these different circles that we’ve mentioned the whole idea of plant consciousness of other more than human consciousness. But before you answer, I just want to take a very quick break for one of our eco-conscious business partners, because they’re also exploring all of these topics in their own way.

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I think we can all agree that music is the true universal language. In fact, what we think of as language is actually musicality, and I would argue that plants may be the greatest composers of all.

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By using the music of the plants, device plants are now able to share their healing and communicate with us in a language we can understand.

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Music of the plants now has different devices to experiment with, whether you’re a musician looking to play along with your plant friends, a healer who wants to enhance their practice, or simply curious

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in the show notes you’ll find a link to purchase the right device for you, such as this bamboo m.

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There are also all sorts of fun extras, such as downloadable interspecies, music and plant music, merchandise.

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So click on the link to the music of the plants in the show notes to discover how you can start making music with your plants today.

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Okay, now that we’re back, I’m just so curious as we’re kind of getting close to the end of our time together. I want to hear, based on all these experiences and your knowledge. Where do you fall like? How do you define? And how do you feel about the consciousness of other kin?

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yeah, I guess that

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I like to be surprised.

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I like that answer. I like to go out there every day like I did this morning, you know. Go into the forest and just really see what comes.

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Because

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you’re right. When you said before that we rely too much on our eyes.

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But there is also a reason

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why we have those eyes.

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It’s to see. The beauty is, of course, to orient ourselves.

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but also.

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I think, to see beyond

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and to kind of see through things.

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and to see through kind of the visible structure.

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And this is, I think, the play

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that we always go through.

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How do we look at all this beauty and wonder. And and it’s magnificent, of course, out there. If you go to old Growth Forest like I’m here now in

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in north of

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New York, status in in adorandaks in this park.

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forest, park I see every day.

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and witnessing these absolutely magical beings that I see on my path.

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And then I ask myself, well, how did this come about?

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You know, how did

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each of these creatures

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come about? And how are they

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interacting with the with with the same world that I’m interacting with, but from a totally different perspective.

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So the way I understand and the way I feel

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this experience of consciousness is that

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each of us

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is the is is, the country is the same consciousness, but we are just different experiences of it. So

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if we think that we are all one field, and for me it’s more like a field. It’s like a time space continuum.

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Then

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I am that little plan that I just encountered.

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and

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she is also me. But we have very different experience.

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We probably have very different understanding of that experience.

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And so our learning process, our memory, our action would be different, which is normal. This is this is how it is.

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And then then comes the idea of oh, different species. So sure we are. But already, when there’s many studies

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they’re looking at certain processes in nature and certain species, so-called.

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and the species like it’s like, what is an organism.

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So mycorrhiza, for example, or that little ghost plant that I encountered today that

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so they thought, it’s like a parasitic plant that doesn’t do photosynthesis and just feeds on roots of other plants. But actually, they discovered recently that it’s working with the same mycorrhiza as photosynthesizing plants. And Macarisa gives it everything, and it just stands there. This beautiful white creature.

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and

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I think what is

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so for me there is no question. That is one field, and the experience of that field is different. And that’s what makes

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this being here interesting, that we are able to have our own experience, but also to plug into, to shape, shift.

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and through this respect and asking permission

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and entering each other’s dreams to co-create

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the world.

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And that’s what we are doing constantly. I think it’s just that we humans, we kind of lost a bit touch with that concept of co-creating together with the rest.

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So we kind of decided that. Oh, you know, we’re going to create our own kind of game.

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So. But we.

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the rules are there. The rules didn’t change. We thought that we can invent our own rules, but those rules they don’t really work. So we’re experiencing a lot of trouble.

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So what really interests me is how we can learn, together with all those other

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aspects of consciousness, and then start co-creating together. For example, I don’t believe

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that people were randomly roaming forests and tasting everything and getting poisoned and dying, and then maybe picking up plant. Oh, and magically, it’s a healing plant. I really think it’s a very, very. It would be very strange if we did that. I think that

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it’s the opposite. We, I think we came out of time, space continuum, where where we were much more tuned.

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and we were able to listen and to understand and to ask and to make conclusions by merely connecting with this other spectra of consciousness.

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with the plants, with the animals

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through much more spiritual, or, let’s say, subtle connection, and really asking questions and really sensing into that field. And I think this is what we are relearning, what this is, why so many people are feeling called to go and learn different techniques how to actually listen, understand

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the information that they’re receiving in whichever way it arrives to them in visual, sonic, symbolic, olfactory way, and then start retuning

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through senses, but also beyond senses, their Psyche to the rest of the world. So we

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slowly like.

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you know, mending the fabric that we kind of torn apart, and so that we are really can survive on our own. But we can’t, because we are very much dependent

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on. You know what we call other than human or more than human.

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yeah. And that’s exactly it. And I feel like what you’re saying is is, and I like that. You put it into the terms of you know we try to change the rules, but the rules are the rules, and therefore we’re just suffering because

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we continue to look to do these things as if we’re different. I think one of the most beautiful things that’s come out of my even my own personal journey is to recognize that while I am an individual being, with so many different aspects and characteristics that are weird and Kooky and individual.

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I’m still the same. I’m still like part of nature. I’m still a human being, which means that there are some things that are universal that I experience, and I feel and and that, like you said when you tune back into that, so you tune

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back into yourself.

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But as a being of nature, recognizing those threads, those threads that connect us all like you said

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that space-time continuum that is the fabric of everything. And you remember, oh, I am a part of that. I’m not even. I’m not even on the fabric. I am the fabric just like everybody else’s. Then all of a sudden, I can start to hear those whispers. And I and I do really love that metaphor that you know, that example that you gave, which is.

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we didn’t go around trying to taste everything, and when we got poisoned we didn’t go. There’s millions of species out there. There was no way for us to just randomly find the combination of this one kills me, and this one helps me. And in some cases it’s the same plant, just about dosage, or how, or even ayahuasca itself. When people talk, I mean, there’s 2 vines in there like there’s 2 different plants. There’s a vine. There’s other

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there that is because when you’re so in tuned.

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you are naturally pulled into that direction. It’s like you, said. The healing doesn’t only come from ingestion.

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The healing comes in across all my different senses, and the more in tune I am, the more I allow, like you said those subtle senses to come back online, those senses that are connected to the fact that I am nature, that I am plant, and I am animal, and I am rock, and I am bacteria, and I am all these pieces, and therefore.

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when I sit into that which, of course, as we know, spending a lot of time with nature, you just naturally get there. There’s no better way of saying it, and then you can feel it. You can hear it, you can sense it, you know where to go, because

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all of your different senses. Those beings can then tune back in and be like, Hey, I see that you’re in distress. It’s kind of like when now they’re they’re discovering that dogs can smell, for example, diseases when when maybe we don’t have tests yet that are able to determine that you have that disease. Well, of course, because their senses are much more subtle, much more

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sensitive to that. And therefore that’s the same thing that happens with a plant who has a medicine within that plant that senses inside of you something and says, Hey, listen! Come over here, come over here, come over here. I have something you need. Come.

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I could just see how that happens. And this disconnection. I think we forget. We’ve talked a lot about biophilic design, and we talk about biomimicry, and we talk about all the different areas. But I think that this part of the disconnection is even more pronounced. It’s the fact that we’re missing out on

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really important relationships that help us live the types of lives that we were supposed to be living here, not where we’re going against, but where we’re flowing with. And we’re able to guide these synchronic flows. I just find that so important. And I love that you’re in a lot of ways. I feel like your work

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shows that in a way that is more accessible to people, because, like you said, poetry is yes, it’s words, but it’s not words. We know this. We know that poetry is more about the sound, the cadence, the rhythm.

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the feelings that are invoked. Very few people. Yeah, we sometimes sit there and analyze poetry. But the 1st time it’s about the impact it makes, we step out of the words and the definitions different than a play even. But even a play. It’s all about those interactions. And I like the pairing of the poetry with the visual aspects which you have multiple mediums that you work in, and that gives the diversity in the work itself

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to feel the impact across my different senses, which is what would be happening when I’m in the forest, and for those that are yet not feeling comfortable enough to go out into those forests who maybe don’t feel safe yet, or maybe they’re afraid this is such a powerful way of coming into it, and then

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discovering that connection in a safer way, to then be able to step out of it and move

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beyond and keep, you know, like you said mending that space-time fabric that’s happening. I love it.

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I feel like there’s so much we could still continue to talk about, because, you know, you have so many pieces.

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I would love 2 things if you’re up for it. One.

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I would love

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another poem because I would love to hear. You know what you feel calls to you, based on on all of this.

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and then I’d love for you to leave us with some final words connected to where people can find your art. And what are the projects that are really exciting you right now?

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Okay, great.

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So I will read from this cycle. It’s called forest time, Rilegar. So this is the one that I mentioned earlier

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that I did in the stupa frea in the Botanical Garden of tropical plants. And I will read you actually the poem of Trixonanga. So she want to be called like that in the traditional way. And I just wanted to say that

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maybe later we can give people link to the calligraphy. But the way it works and the way it works specifically in this series is that I also ask the plants how they want to appear.

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So when the poem is done, when it’s written, when it’s finished.

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Then I I tried to find the form, together with the plan that

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it’s like an essence

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of that plant. So I’m not drawing plants. I’m not trying to be realistic about that every plant has a spirit and essence.

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and that message that they pass on through poetry, which is inwards, then combines with this visual expression of

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how they choose to appear

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on the paper. So I do calligraphy work.

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The words are there. I also believe a lot in the power of the word when it’s written and visual.

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but then everything is also encapsulated in that shape and form.

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and usually, if they don’t agree, then the artwork is really not good, like, I I don’t like it, and I don’t put it up. So then I continue making until there is like a final stop. And it’s like, yeah. The plant also likes the form, because because it’s their form, and we need both to make sure that I like what I’m doing as an artist. And they like what’s showing up on paper.

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And so

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when that that is going to be a book that we’re going to publish probably already next year.

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we still are looking for funding for match funding. But this this cycle of poetry with the 7 plans will be there, and I will read this one poem to you.

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And so

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the people who are listening to us maybe they can close their eyes and just really relax and

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just listen and breathe.

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Slow down.

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slow down.

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slow down!

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Listen!

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All you have now

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is your heart.

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every human moment of time

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I hear it in the echo of my breath.

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Listen!

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I belong

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to this very piece of dirt

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with all my family.

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You don’t know their names.

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but they know your pain.

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Listen!

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The nauseating fever of the world

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draws its claws into your chest.

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This sickness is not yours.

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If you melt it down.

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I will weave it into a song.

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Listen.

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tore your heart with me to the wild place within.

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where your power

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has petrified into a rock.

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This is your finest medicine.

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Crush it.

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grind it fine.

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take it in.

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listen!

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So beautiful. This was Chirica Nango, the yesterday today and tomorrow plan that I rejected at the beginning. And she kind of came out to me.

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Yeah, I love it. There’s a lot of healing that happens through this kind of processes. And I really like it. And and and personal healing as well. I mean, we’re all humans that come with loads of things into this world, and lots of things that are unresolved and

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am usually healing a lot through this process, working with plants, forests, and places.

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but also they are asking for healing. And I think what my conclusion, so far with this kind of work is, that

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as much as we are looking for medicine.

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We are also the medicine

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For the land, for them, for all the beings for the forest and kind of. It’s obvious, right? But

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it’s when you really start feeling that, and that also that you can offer that medicine in the moment I think that becomes much more

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interesting because it becomes a true exchange rather than oh, you know, we just always need to take what is the next plant that I need.

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you know, to put into tincture or tea. There’s many courses. There is many people teaching, but I think we should always remember it’s like, Well, what can I give in the moment. So yeah, so that is very much where I’m standing. And the work that is kind of following through that

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like, how can we help heal

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the world? And in my case the forests. That’s the focus

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so wonderful. I am so grateful for this conversation. I’m sure everyone has enjoyed it as much as I have. And so I’m going to make sure that all the links are in the show notes so that people can come and find your website and your Instagram, and all the other places where you post and where you have your wonderful artwork, and where people can see what you’re up to next.

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Thank you so much, Jenny. I’m thrilled. I’m glad to have been able to have this conversation and to hear your words, and thank you for sharing your poetry, and more than anything for being like you, said that voice. That

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is, as we talked about with Sidney Kale, when I had her on the podcast sometimes you are, you know, a voice for the plants. Sometimes, instead, you are bringing a voice of your own that helps to share with the plants, and it’s that constant co-creation and being able to be in that state of

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of partnership that is so important. So thank you so much. Thank you. And if people want to know more about any of these projects.

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I think a tunnel forest

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website is the place to go. And I just wanted to add that

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because we didn’t really speak too much about it. But I just wanted to add that

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eternal forest

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is not just a concept, although today we spoke a lot about things that are a little bit more airy, I would say, not necessarily, but the

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but my practical solution for doing this work permanently, and that more people can do this kind of

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listening. But also action is

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creating a tunnel for a sanctuary. So if somebody maybe reads later the description, and they feel cold. They can always connect with me because we are looking for interested people and partners all around the world

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that can offer land and can co-create forest sanctuaries, so that this kind of work that we are talking about can be done on permanent basis in places where we can develop more intimate relationship with the place over longer periods of time. And of course we can contribute to protecting those places

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well, forever. Hopefully, I’m so glad that you mentioned that. Yeah, I’ll definitely make sure that I include the link to the project so that people who are interested can participate and can help make more of these forest sanctuaries around because we definitely need it. We definitely need it. Thank you so much, Evegnia. Thank you, everybody. And to everybody that’s listening. If you want to continue on, please

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go check out all of Jenny’s work. Go to her website and all of her different projects. I’ll make sure that they’re all in the show notes, and also remember that the naturally conscious community is the place to continue these kinds of conversations. It is the online community for nourishing these human plant relationships that we’re constantly developing

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01:00:55.160 –> 01:01:11.589 thanks for listening to this episode of reconnect with plant wisdom intro on outro music by Steve Shuli and poinsettia from the singing life of plants. So join me, Tigrilla, Gardenia, and my plant collaborators next time on reconnect with plant wisdom.