Ep.60 The Meaning of Spirituality | Talk with Gnomo Orzo of Damanhur

Welcome to Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. I’m your host, Tigrilla Gardenia, nature-inspired mentor and leadership coach. In this podcast I share ancient and modern knowledge from biology to spirituality about the wonders, ways in which plants can help you lead a naturally-conscious life.

Hello Hello Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom. It’s me Tigrilla Gardenia, and for this episode, which is our episode 60 I still can’t believe it’s episode 60 Like It shocks me to think how long and and especially since I’m right now, every day I get new ideas of things that I really want to share. With you. And so So, you know, it takes I don’t know if you’ve ever done a podcast before, you know, it takes a little while to get into your stride. And now I feel like I’m like, Okay, I’m starting to get this thing.

And this episode is one that sort of came out of the blue I actually wasn’t expecting it at all. So as you know, I live in Damanhur spiritual community, one of the largest spiritual communities in the world in Italy. And last week, I was invited last week from the time that I’m recording this. I was invited to a talk with Dominica and it’s these talks that we do with Gnomo also who is one of the theoreticians here are dumb and her and usually it’s with somebody named Intel over today, this time it was with a month ago who’s one of the Head of Communications here and DME and her, and it’s these talks where they invite in other Damanhurians to talk about a specific subject looking at it from the way that fuck with that article, the founder of Damanhur her might have talked about it and how any of our spiritual studies and our philosophies look at it, and then also how you yourself have interpreted it and and so I was invited to do a talk on the meaning of spirituality and the talk was just so good. It was so good. It was so interesting that when we finished I was like monta, please can I can I release this on my podcast?

So I really am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this because spirituality is a word that has so many different meanings for so many different people. It could be extremely secular. It could be really almost religious like it could be very rigid, it could be very loose, it could be a philosophy, it could be a structure, it can be so many different things. So we want to share with you I want to share with you how normal and I see the word spirituality and then invite you to come into the naturally conscious community and have this conversation with others because I am excited to see what comes up here of your own understanding of spirituality based on everything that we have a discussion with. So with that, I leave you to Episode 60 The meaning of spirituality a talk with Damanhur her

this night we have to talk about people and it’s a very interesting topic. Very raised very big topic. Tonight with we are with Manta and the gorilla boy ma’am Manta will be our the host of our meeting and maybe degree love would you like to spend some words about you who you are, what are you doing? You have a very interesting work.

So hello convoy convoy, everyone, my name is Tigrilla gardenia. I am a nature inspired mentor, a certified life coach. And mostly I’m known because I’m the world ambassador, a world ambassador for plant advocacy. So my specialization is plant intelligence plant neurobiology, critical plant studies, plant humanities, there are so many plant for apology. It’s so amazing how this field has just grown over the years. And so I basically help creatives and multi potentialized and nature inspired professionals to develop their true nature. And that’s just like, the headlines like that’s the way if I was to sit here and try to give you my whole background, which I’m sure we’re gonna get into in this conversation. It would take a while, but I’ve been a dominator for the last. Oh my goodness when I think about it, it’s been 13 years that I have been a Damanhurian and an initiates I am also an instructor of the School of metod action and of the Damanhur Academy and I am extremely excited to be here with you.

Thank you Tigrilla Gardenia

Okay, so thank you very much degree love to be with us tonight I asked Tigrilla to to be with us because I think you can all also enrich this. This topic with maybe many other perspective, also about your research about the plant worth because maybe we can go straight into the topic. When we talk about spirituality in the seminar we are talking about everything we are talking about. Nada have to connect everything to a connection so not to divide aspect between you know, spirituality and physics and religion and so on but to found a way to connect everything. So first of all that Manta disappeared on me I will just leaving you the stage to try to escape. Try to try to be appearing.

I think that Manta has question question for us. Yes.

We as usual received some question on our channels and on the community in the meantime. And so the first one is the I mean, the basic one probably so it’s what does it mean for you to to be spiritual follow a spiritual path and living a spiritual life?

Who wants to start near money?

A gentleman.

So I thought a lot about this question when I first heard it because I think that spirituality is one of those words that we take for granted. I think we hear it so much that we at some point, forget to even give it a context or a definition. So and so when you go back and you think about what is spirituality and spirituality really is about living a life in awareness and in connection with the human spirits, you could say the human soul. I think for us, we would also say with connection and awareness of the Divine ecosystem, so it’s kind of like that connection that goes from us all the way out and from out you know, from the primeval divinity, all the way back down to the individual and all the connections that we do. And for me, that’s always been the core of spirituality. My spirituality has always been a quest to first of all understand who I am at my most expansive self, senses personalities, the structure of my soul, my physical as well as my subtle connections and abilities. My aura levels, you know, are subtle bodies, all these different pieces.

But more importantly than that, and especially now after all these years of working with the plants, it’s also about those, what I call a spiritual ecosystem, like how is it that I fit into that spiritual ecosystem? What is my soul here to do and what is this particular life Give me the ability to do as part of my overall so mission? And how does that soul mission fit into a greater a greater mission for humanity? Or you know, and so I so I, for me, spirituality and being it and doing it are all the same thing, because it’s whatever is how do I stay connected? How am I how do I increase my awareness and how do I contribute actively or consciously to this mission that my soul has chosen for, you know, my life times inside? Of this greater game of life? And that’s always even before Damanhur gave me the vocabulary to understand it as well as Kabbalah because as a catalyst for many years before writing it’s almond heard these two have like, spiritual physics and Kabbalah for me are like mesh in together. But I feel like that’s really what spirituality is. It’s that greater understanding of my human souls path within this overall bigger piece.

Gorilla. And what about you and Damanhur? Yes,

I completely agree with the description of the grill about the huge, the huge, in vase the context of spirituality of course, I think that everyone can also describe also translated in a different way. But I also want to add something about the sort of Debian habits to express spirituality. Something that for me, I joined them in order. I was very young, I was 18 years old. And when I started to be at the memorial, what I discovered was an approach to put spiritually in spirituality into very practical aspect also, so to maybe I’m not talking about what is spirituality but how to interpret spirituality. Founding away so dominar spent a lot of energy to find a way to understand how to put in practice spirituality, in order to in some way to concur with our divine spark to conquer the matter to conquer the reality with the divine. You know, the divine element to enlight the matter with our actions, with our continuity, for example, in laminar we, we put a lot of attention about not only to act, but also to be constant over time in what we do. In order to be able to change the reality. We know I think that every one of us in our lives we discovered, we tested that to change something we have to be constant. It’s not something we can do as you know, something we do on the weekend. We chosen to express spirituality every day. It means that we also have to find a way to touch with the spirituality also our work, the food I don’t know everything, money, economy have the law of sex, everything, not only something that we can express even know in a temple or in a church, but something we can express every day in every daily life. Experience is not easy. It’s a challenge. It’s a challenge. Sometimes we forget I forget. But this is the challenge I think of dominance to try to connect together spirituality with daily life

and in the sense, taking your words as an inspiration. Another question that we receive what what is the spiritual path in and especially if it’s so deeply connected to all your life or your daily life? Yes.

Please, well, and I think that this is one of those places where probably no more and I will differ in a good way like to show the diversity of actually domine Hurrians because he always he said was very young when he arrived in Damanhur. So his path has been very much colored by Tom and Hurrian principles and then all the extensive studies and research that he’s gone into here. So you have this breath, that is like this depth, excuse me, that goes through where my spiritual path has been marked by breath. You know, I have, I have, you know, been an initiative other paths in the past. I have taught Kabbalah and practical spirituality and sacred geometry and all these different aspects. And now even the work that I do with the plants for me is very spiritual, even though it’s, it seems like it brings in science and spirituality similar in that aspect in Gnomo. With all of his work with the physics and the quantum physics and the spiritual physics to bringing in all these aspects. So I think your spiritual path is not so much what you do. It’s how you do it. It’s bringing in that that awareness that allows us to as we say, examine her divinities matter, right, when I elevate what I’m doing, and I give it a connotation that is beyond just my own self, and that I look at it as how does this move not just my own life forward, but humanity forward?

So I think for some it’s going to be the same path you always do. But for others like you, you follow this one specific path, and it has kind of different nuances, but it’s that general path and for some, they’re going to jump from one path to it’s going to look like you’re jumping to one path to another, but it’s about like numo said where’s the continuity? Where is the growth? Is it an evolution of path? Is it a path that you feel like you’re constantly growing in and moving and that your awareness is always going farther and farther from the eye to the out? And so I think that that really is one of the Telltales. important aspects of what what a spiritual path is, is are the elements for you to move towards greater awareness and greater understanding of who you are and what your place is and the impact that you’re making and all of these different pieces that move towards that divinization of matter. Even though it could look very different from the outside in different ways. I don’t know No, i i I’d love to hear your thoughts on this one though.

Yeah, maybe. First of all, I totally agree with Tigrilla that we came from two very different perspective because I started to enjoy also other visions after my my school in Ghana, so my first my first experience for maybe 10 or 15 years was a deep study into the dominaria philosophy. And after that, they started also to touch other aspects about it was another kind of approach. And I think that the only aspect I can add on this picture that we are painting together is that the end of the memorial path, we try to bring together the individual path, so an individual growth will also take paying attention that the entire spirituality can grow together. So in some way, maybe you will, who will love it’s a way to to take the best of communism and capitalism is bringing to a third way where we can bring together me and us but taking care about my free will, of course, but also taking care about the community.

So the species we believe in them are that the human species have to jump to a new level. Where maybe we will be doing b Not anymore. The kind of species we have today something more evolution, and we hope also something more connected with the other intelligences like for example the plant world and so on, where we can remember again that we are part of a larger ecosystem. So maybe this is the other aspect I want to add to our discussion. So the US of the melodeon spiritual path. So in the damanhurian School of Medicine, action, we tried to put together the group. So in the same time is a group every group is is a group of spiritual path, but every one of us is a person that is following his own path inside the group like an organism’s.

And thank you and you the meantime, I remind all our friends online that they can make a question on the channels. So please be as interactive as possible with us. We love questions. Yeah, and one man’s good. Yeah, one of it. It’s a little bit personnel and it’s about it’s about you and if you remember the, the beginning of your spiritual journey and what what has been the trigger what has been the question that place you into this path?

No, I’m gonna let you start with this one.

Okay, so I remember very well, the very first moment in my life when I started to give me a question about who am I and what is my position what is my you know, my position into the into the picture? I was very young I was in the into an hospital. I was I if I remember right it was six, six or seven years old. For maybe, I don’t know in English for my sea level for my for my throat. And yeah, and I was looking at the sky. The window was opened was summer. And looking at the sky. I understood that I was very small, into a very small planet. And I felt I was alone, completely alone. And from that moment on, I started to search for other people with the same effort to reconnect together all that stars of that story. For that moment on started to be a need for me and was very difficult to describe that need to other people. I was not talking about that because they were not understanding what I was talking about.

Until I joined Dominator and I found many persons that they were completely understanding by neither and there was searching for the same target. So I consider myself very, I am a lucky man. Because I was very young when I found persons people with the same mission with the same target with the same ideas. And after 35 years, I can say that it was a very right choice. That’s my personal experience. But I remember very, very well that night, feeling of you know, sadness and loneliness searching for you know something I have to do something without the person but I don’t know where I didn’t know how. In one word, if I have to summarize my first trigger, about my spiritual path that he was a research

that makes sense, and it’s so funny how we all come about it in different ways. I feel like my spiritual path has been kind of when we do the course on rebirth, some programming your rebirth, I feel like it’s been layers of rebirths within the same lifetime. Like, I was very lucky to have grown up in a location where my mother was a UN is still to a certain extent, even though I have a feeling we’re gonna get into my mother at some point. When we talk about religion. It’s going to be a very interesting conversation. But my mother when I was young was a seeker in a very casual way. So my mother had studied pretty much everything like she had worked in a Jewish school. I had gone to a Catholic school, my mother studied metaphysics. And while she didn’t include me in the sense of like me participating, other than when I went to a Catholic school for a while, and I went to a Christian school before that, a Baptist Christian school. But other than that piece, there was just this curiosity and of of, of the ability to see multiple levels like I remember my mother would go to get her cards read, and she didn’t and she would visit she would accompany her friends to specific events, and she would tell me stories, but my mother wasn’t interested necessarily in being on a spiritual path. So much matter, you might want to shut your microphone off, because when your hands touch, um, and so she, so that created a base of the ability for, like you said, inquiry like searching and being a seeker in some aspect and yet, I went down the kind of more magic path like I was looking at Wicca and esoteric magic and things of that nature always attracted me. The occult attracted me much more where she was more on the metaphysics. realm.

We never really talked about it until way later, when I was in when I was initiated into another school. And there I came home and one day I was having a conversation with her about it and we got into a very deep, I hadn’t really understood just how deep her calm her exploration had been. But it was fantastic to see to know that you could search in whatever way works for you. And, and she was very honest about the choices she had made in the why so for me, I guess I always had certain rituals were always done in my culture, certain types of spiritual practices from Cydia to like I said Catholicism or Christian religions to metaphysical spiritual paths. Were always just there. They were around, and it made me feel like I could always look at things from a physical realm, but also from a non physical realm. I think it became much more concrete for me when I was lucky enough I have I always have very weird stories, guys. I just say, I have weird stories. That’s just who I am. My life is filled with very strange stories. But I actually was, I worked in high tech, I worked at Microsoft. And before right before I worked at Microsoft, I was working for another tech company and I was kind of I started to act and sing and dance because I come from a music background and a music engineering background.

And and I got cast in a show that happened to be something called a prayer formance so it was a performance in the middle of a intentional dance party with a very esoteric theme. And I was cast in this performance that allowed me to meet this entire group of people who were part of this mystery school, and the whole concept of an initiating path all of a sudden unveiled itself in front of me and it was funny because my first teacher on that path is now after many years, I was just recently featured on a Gaia original series called divine science. And she’s actually on the show too on my same episode. And so it’s really fun that my first Kabbalah and initiated teacher, the person who initiated me into that other path, we had become good friends, and then we sort of lost touches as our lives went in different directions. And now when we are both on the same show, and sharing stories, she’s a physicist. And so sharing stories of like, are are different, but yet United paths. So I think it’s really about for me it was about always having this curiosity that and this deep, deep, deep feeling that there was more than just what I was seeing physically and always feeling very comfortable within myself that this occult esoteric realm existed. And I it was just going to unfold like I don’t know how I can explain it other than to just say I knew that the steps to unfold it like I didn’t have to push it. I knew that as I became more ready, you know, that typical, you know, the typical meme of when you’re ready, the teacher will, you know, will reveal themselves and reveal themselves like that was me it was just like, I kind of knew that there was all these avenues I could pursue, and that I could just trust that the next step I would take would take me on my right stead of my path. And so so it really wasn’t a single this started it but more of all these different pieces building one upon another and giving me the space to to go that path. I can’t say this. I did spend a few years where I didn’t do anything.

Like I wasn’t connected to any real spiritual path. I would. I think that’s when I got curious about Kabbalah and I started reading about it but I didn’t have a teacher and I didn’t really know anything. And it was emotionally speaking probably the most difficult period of my life, not because anything was happening, but because I could feel that void. And at the time, I didn’t know that that what it was. It wasn’t until the teachers finally revealed themselves and all of a sudden all the pieces came together and I could like understand that this was my path and that I could and it’s always been like that, you know that school showed up. Then other things took me to another country then Dominator showed up and I never thought I would be living even after the first visit but it was like I met never first day was the arrived examiner.

We had we had dinner together.

We had dinner together.

So it was I thought it was only just so you all know that life is weird. And has these you know takes twists and turns I was supposed to only be here six months. And then I was supposed to go back to my regular life. That was years ago. Yeah, next month, and I was like, I’m done. I’m gonna finish this project. I’m out. 13 years later, I’m still sitting here.

And degree like you mentioned many different spiritual schools and many paths and the religion too. So one of the questions that we receive is, what is for you the difference between a spiritual path and religion?

Yeah, here I have to say I rely heavily on my Kabbalistic side to give me a a really deep understanding of that because if anybody’s ever studied Kabbalah, or has ever seen the Tree of Life, right the Tree of Life is made up of a whole series of sufferers. With three pillars you can see kind of three columns, the three pillars, one of them is the pillar of philosophy, the other one is the pillar of religion. And then you have this middle pillar. For me, the middle pillar is the spiritual is the for me my way of the spiritual path, which means I step in so the pillar of religion is about, as my mother puts it, because as I was talking about my mother, my mother at some point in her life, chose a religion. My mother is a Baptist. She’s a beautiful Baptist.

I love talking about religion with my mother because she’s extremely. She does her own studies, like she comes to her own conclusions. But it’s within the framework, and she says it very clearly. I chose to be to go from metaphysics and all of these other philosophies that I had studied and I chose a religion because I needed very direct rules. I needed to know that I would do this step and I would get to heaven. i She couldn’t handle the choose your own adventure that is a spiritual path. So to me, spirituality is kind of the weaving in and out between philosophy which is the which is the concepts, the ideas. And the religion which is the steps, the structure.

And you see this in the in the tree of Life. You see this through. You know the differences between Netsak and Hood, and in Heset and Gaburra you see, and in Chokma and Binah, you see the path of severity, not in a bad way, but more in the these are the. This is your structure that you should stay within. And philosophy which says, there is no structure. Follow your emotions, follow your experiences, and to me the spiritual path is the path that weaves it. And that’s why we call it like the middle pillar. Because you do have some structure, you know, whatever it is that you study, whether it’s you know, here and Dom and her, and you have your initiative path with our rituality and our alchemy, and all these pieces that has structures.

But it also has a lot of philosophical elements that allow us to choose how to apply some of those structures, or which one of those are more adept for me like for me, it’s really plant focus and personalities focused and certain things for Gnomo. It’s very, you know, spiritual physics and quantum physics. And all of these other pieces. We have a shared rituality, which is our kind of part that comes from that religious. the the pillar of religion, or the pillar of severity, and we have this philosophical side that comes, and so we can weave through them. And I feel like that’s really the difference. That’s what distinguishes religion says

I’m going to tell you what to think, what to and feel, not feel. You feel yourself. But I’m gonna tell you what to think and how to approach, that I’m gonna give you everything you need to get there. I’m gonna provide you that structure. I’m gonna show you the words that you’re supposed to get to. So it provides all of that in a way that yes, you have a little bit of wiggle room, but you generally follow that where spirituality is is, is, pulls from different aspects.

think interesting point, especially about structure rules that. in a word, of follow the flow are interesting elements to think about. So what about you? Beautiful?

The the vision about the division of the grill that come from the Kabbalah vision? Kabala. It’s beautiful new aspects. Yeah. Maybe something I can add with this very interesting discussion is.

That in my experience also in the Damanhurian and the Damanhur’s history, the division, the the limit between spirituality and religion is very thin.

and it’s so so very easy to float from one side to to the other, because I think that eventually the the only, the only one that can choose, if is following a spiritual path, or is only applying and religious roles, is the person every one of us. despite of every role or every you know model we have in front of us the Damarian school, or another magical school.

for example, I met some priests, some person in the Catholic Church. They were more moved. They are more, you know, from the point of spirituality and spiritual pattern, not religions, because they were not focused. strongly focused on dogmas. Also, talking about dogmas, I think that in the spiritual part.

in a perfect world, in the spiritual path the people are focused on paradigms, but not dogmas. because the dogma is a very clear limit. It’s a square that said there is something outside. Something inside. Outside is wrong. Inside is is good.

If you have a paradigm, you can move, and the paradigm is for is with you. And yeah, you have no limits. You have rows, you have a direction, but there is not a border, there is not a curtains.

I think that it’s something where we constantly choose inside of us sometimes in Damanhur. I was religious because I was following without, you know.

really analyzing what I was doing. And sometimes I’m a researcher, and I think that I’m a spiritual researching, a spiritual part because I’m looking, and I am aware about my actions. And in that case I’m more focused on a paradigm and not a dogma.

Thank you, Gnomo. And

someone is asking, what is the Falco view about spirituality in the chat.

Yes.

there you go. That’s your specialization. You go. No, you’ll have the answer better than all of us.

Falco was 1st of all, in 40 years, almost 40 years. Falco bring to us a very different point of view about spirituality, but maybe

one that Falco was repeating again and again, and we know why, because we had some very practical goal to achieve

in our life year, for example, the creation of the temples of humankind, the creation of the community.

the creation of a hotspot of the planet that helped everyone on the planet to understand that to do spirituality together is possible. So he was repeating many times that spirituality is connected to the practical aspect of, to do something to express our free will, and to put in actions our ideas and dreams. So it was a very practical point of view about spirituality

so free will express your own free will. Of course, to say, express your own free will means that you 1st of all, you have to do a research inside of you to understand the division between your real needs.

your real dreams. And what is something that is suggested by outside of you.

This is the way to understand what means.

To express your own free will. Sometimes we believe we are acting.

but we are only following suggestions, pushing of everything go outside of us.

in a nutshell, the Falco version of spirituality was to do a spiritual research and to express your own free will.

in order to do something that can be visible for the other people’s view.

something that the other people can touch can. So it’s not something that only happened inside of you.

Did you hear the one? Do you want to add something or no? I’m I’m actually thinking. I think

it’s funny as Noma talks. This is what I love about having, you know, conversations with Gnomo and Andom and I used to teach together. So it’s really fun to kind of be back in this environment. And and I was just thinking, as I hear him, oftentimes because

of the way that he describes Falco. I can. I can imagine those moments. And it it just brings me back to memories of, you know, walking down a hallway with Falco, having a conversation about something, and the way that he, the way that he approaches everything which was.

I think we’re e, you know each one of us has our own way of of touching into our spirituality. Some are are very analytical with it. Some are very you know, emotional with it. Some kind of expect a feeling versus you know how I’m feeling? And and Falco is just really about. What are you doing like your spirituality is expressed through. What are you doing like? How? And I remember one time we were in a a Friday Sedata

and he he made a comment that I will never forget, because he was saying how

it was talking about ideas and like impact and saying that you know, kind of I’m gonna I’m gonna

paraphrase him badly. But it was more along the lines of like your ideas, and and an idea in your head isn’t good for anybody like if it just swirls around in your mind, you have to bring it out through your actions.

and I would say that that was probably like the metaphor of his spirituality. Is.

it is, are you acting?

And and are you doing things that match

what it is that you want to put out into the world? Because that, then, is going to reflect back on who you are in the world kind of like, Gandhi said. You know happiness is when what you think and what you feel and what you do are in harmony.

and I feel like that’s also, you know you could say spirituality is that when what you act, what you, what you think, what you feel and what you do are in harmony with one another. That is really the core of it.

Thank you, Gigrila. And starting from this point of view, can you give us some examples of

which one you consider the but your best achievements in your spiritual life as a spiritual manifestation, or what you are doing.

Think of how you would even answer that.

So that’s a curiosity. Actually, I’m I’m gonna give you my answer. You want to know what my biggest spiritual achievement is peace of mind.

serenity, and peace of mind. I know it sounds ridiculous like that really has been

the the culmination. I realized that the more. It’s kind of like what I was just saying with the Gandhi quote, and even with Falkos quotes, it’s that augmentation of that that ever more complexity

without complication, you know, from a spiritual physics perspective right where I can do so many different things. And yet I feel spaciousness of time. I feel calm. I feel like I’m I’m on my path.

I feel like for me. That has been probably the most important spiritual achievement is reaching a place where I realized that I was getting up early in the morning. I was going to bed late at night.

but I felt peaceful throughout the course of my day. I felt like.

you know, that doesn’t mean that it’s 24, 7 always, although we’re we’re trying to get there. But I’m just saying like those moments where you realize that, at least for me, especially with the way that my mind works. I’m I’m somebody who just is very, very active, and I I love doing things and creating and and express seeing. And more importantly, I love seeing the transformations and the evolutions that happen with people.

And so I’m very hands-on in everything I do. People are afraid to ask me onto projects, because I usually give 150% like it’s just the way I am.

And yet over the years I’ve become like there’s less expectations from others on those things. It’s it’s there’s a there’s a flow. I was just recently interviewed for a Pbs documentary that’s gonna come out at the end of the year. And we were having this very deep conversation about that flow, that feeling like

you, if you really sit back and surrender into your true essence, like to your divine soul all the way back to all the connections.

the what the path that you’re supposed to be on sort of unfolds in front of you, even if you can’t always articulate it.

And and to me that is the accomplishment like that’s been, probably, and and there’s still more to come. But that’s

holding that for longer stretches of time. We’re feeling like my day is that way or where I’m I’m really feeling that trust and that faith and that peace. So many people use different words to to reach there. That that universal kind of

on that that universal love that comes. I hate using that word sometimes because it’s so, Corny, but it’s like so true. It’s that place where you just

in in Kabbalah. We think of it as like to ferrets. You know the the the beauty. Life is beautiful because you do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, and you feel it. That to me has been the the most

important true spirit. I mean. I could give you lots of external achievements, but that’s been like the thing that really has transformed who I am, and it’s transformed me a lot because I consider myself. I always say that if I write a book the 1st line is going to be, I’m the most positive negative person you’ve ever met because my mind thinks in negatives, and I was a big pain.

and so to be able to be somebody that feels like she can contribute in a group that can be an individual and be interrelated, and be really at peace with who I am and how I express myself. Heaven! Heaven! Heaven! Heaven! Heaven.

Yeah. Do you want to have something? Yes, for
for me is the moment where the fear stops, and

that’s my my goal. Every time in my life when I really stop to have fear.

and the fear is replaced with consciousness, I feel that I had the jump.

I found a way to to jump to another level.

Yeah.

to be more. To be honest, I have.

and and to me that is the accomplishment. Like to my to my day. I felt like.

you know, that doesn’t mean that it’s 24, 7 always, although we’re phrase phrase him badly. But it was more along the lines of on really, really in a flow, because the the next question was about is about the challenges and the difficulties. But yeah, we can. This is fine.

So you already answered, I answered.

but also, Tigrilla, you know

also degree like some way also answer to to this question. Right? Yeah. I mean, for sure, the fears. I mean, I still think that that the number one thing that holds humanity back, and I think that when we think about what is the the common element that we all, as human beings feel and experience is that fear.

and it’s like every time. If you go, I always say that when you when you act like a when you go with like a little child, and when somebody says I don’t know, this is my limiting belief, or or I don’t wanna do something or something like that. And you just keep asking the word. Why? Like why? And then they say, Oh, because of this. And then why and why? Eventually you get down to fear you. That’s that’s just the foundational base of what we’re here. And the only thing I feel like really works through the fear is that trust is getting to that opposite side of of unconditional love and trust, and that that faith that in yourself.

and so I feel like that’s a big part of your spiritual path is I have a faith in myself, but that because I am a member and a part of an overall ecosystem that I trust also. And so it’s like micro my minor like from the micro to the macro and the macro to the micro can’t speak it today. And I think that one of the difficulties in this is that as you move

through this radical honesty becomes a way of life.

and, like Gnomo, said, it’s like you have to be really honest with yourself and very transparent with yourself.

You. You also have to recognize that each human being and every other being, not just human beings that you encounter is on their own path.

And there might be some things that they do that they’ve already worked through, and there might be some things that don’t work through. And I think it’s very easy sometimes when we are on a spiritual path as we start to advance through and work through certain things for us to want to others to react the same way we’re reacting. Why don’t they understand that? Why don’t they see that?

And so I feel like that level of that’s probably one of those gotchas

that when you really are in a path that’s your own. You don’t worry about where anybody else is. I remember when I 1st came to Dom and her you know. Come having somebody who was, I mean, I’m Cuban American. I grew up in a very open environment. I have, many years of different practices, and there was certain things, and and we we see it all the time when guests come, and with initiates now all over the world.

Each one of us has some things that are easier, and that don’t cause fears or judgements where others have lots of them. And I remember one Damanhurian who looked at me, and he’s like you have to remember there are people here in Dominur that the very fact that they made it to Damanhur is a huge jump in their evolution

because they come from small towns where they were had to give up. You know, they had to fight the the stat, the norms and the belief systems maybe come out of their own religious beliefs, their parents’ expectations, and they had to take a huge leap of faith

to come to Dominur, especially in the early years, like when Gnomo came, where, by the time I came, the temples of humankind existed. Falco already had a a spirituality and a rituality that was pretty well known and understood. You know there was all these elements that existed where for other people, they came here on a complete leap of faith like that. This is going to change and transform your life.

And I think it’s important for us to remember that every person is in this incarnation of life to have a journey and an experience.

and I can’t judge or experience anybody else’s, and I can’t, and I can, but I can learn from them, I can. Even the most

rudimentary changes could have a humongous impact if I allow myself

to see this person, not for the exact thing that they did, but the fact that they did it.

and the and the what they had to experience in order to do it. And I think that that’s the beauty of living in community is that we have these mirrors of one another, and we can feel the triggers of our personality so much.

and if we, instead of trying to project that onto another person instead, take it in and say.

How do I learn from that? Or how do I contribute to making that better. How do? What is inside of me that can create the right field or the right physical action or the right experience? Right is the bad word. But I think you understand. What I’m trying to say is, how do I?

How do I contribute positively to this ecosystem, no matter what love, what? Where everybody is, because we’re all in it together.

And and I think that that shift is is a big challenge

on your spirituality, like a spiritual path means allowing others to touch me.

allowing others experiences to actually have an impact on me

and to grow and evolve from it.

And I think that that’s can be extremely challenging. And along with the idea of when am I supposed to

like consciously and move the synchronicity? And when am I supposed to allow the synchronicity to guide me. I think that that becomes another big challenge on this path. So you really have to know thyself. That is why that’s like the tenant of every spiritual path, is like, you really have to know yourself.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Tigrilla

we got a message that is very connected to the present moment, and it’s what should I think about spirituality? In a word, at war?

Ha.

hmm! It’s a good one. But yeah, 1st of all, I think we have to remember that

we are at war from, you know.

thousands of years, because, of course, in the last 5 years we start to experience a war in Europe or close to Europe.

But there are many other conflicts all around the world from decades. So

we are constantly at work

because human being is not yet arrived to really understand what means human being and spirituality.

because we are still putting actions on conflict instead of

found solutions and found a way to connect.

It’s a completely a different point of view.

the point of view of people that are searching for create connections and the point of view of people that are searching for conflicts for diversity in terms of something that can divide me

against you, instead of something that can distinguish me.

And you.

I know this is completely a philosophic answer.

In the other hand, I think that to like following the last words of Tigrilla

working to create communities is a very practical way to create examples of solutions of the war.

to produce solutions, and to show the solutions to the people of the world in order to, you know, to

touch more people, we can with the idea to create communities, because in this way we will take space that now is completely covered by the government all around the world.

taking space and helping people to understand. They can create communities and inside the communities create a new balance, a new system, that where can found solutions

and not to create conflict. So we’ve chosen

to practically apply in our daily life a solution that can be an example. Like many other groups all around the world are doing the same.

creating communities as a solution for the problems of the world.

Yeah. And I think that that’s that’s also one of the other beautiful things about being a Dominurian, no matter where you live, is that we approach these types of situations and and from many different angles. You know, there’s the physical angle. And then there’s, you know, the things that you can do on the subtle planes. And then there’s all these other aspects. And then there’s the individual.

I think the challenge that many of us have. I. I I work with many different people. Who often tell me, as as a as a that they feel very disconnected, for example, from their own lives and from their own bodies from all these different aspects.

And I feel like this is the macro. That’s the the the part that reflects out too many of these conflicts.

Many of these conflicts, as Gnomo said, have always existed, and one side of it is the fact that now we’re seeing them.

and I think that there is a humongous benefit that we should look at of the fact that so much of what was veiled and hidden is now unveiled and visible, because when it’s visible.

it’s when we can all start to move and take action towards it.

And I also think it’s important for us to remember that all of these systems and governments and organizations, whether you’re talking about climate or you’re talking about war, you’re talking about all this are still made up of individuals.

and these individuals kind of like the these entities have been created at an energetic level from what is being put into these groups.

But it’s what the individuals are putting into these groups, and I think that this is the aspects of where you have to ask yourself the question of how long like, what is the individual action that I shall take?

You might act on a global level. You might act on a community level, right? But it’s kind of like we were talking about earlier with Falco. We said, it’s important, like you have to act in some way.

and your actions have ripple effects. They make impacts, they leave a trace.

And so I think that your spiritual path is more important than ever right now

to ask yourself honestly.

okay, I’m incarnated in this period, where all of this is going on, where it’s so visible. It’s in your face every day. It’s in the news. It’s in the conversations I’m having with my friends. It’s in this. So it’s being mirrored to me all the time.

What am I going to do? What is my role in it.

Because if I don’t think that I have a role in it.

then I’m probably

part. I’m gonna feel like I’m part of the problem. It’s like I’m gonna feel the weight of it as opposed to. If you are doing even a little thing, you know, it could just be a a conversation. It could be the work that you’re doing for yourself overall. It will Snowball. It will affect greater. It will ripple out, and it will have its effect.

You know Dominique herself is a great example of that right one small little group of people who we started to have these meetings and then decided that we’re going to live together. And then, all of a sudden, you know, more people felt that call. And now we affect so many different people, but also government structures, and we are so active in so many different realms.

and the Damanhurians themselves, all Damanhurians around the world are also active members of their existing circles.

And that’s effect. And like normal said, there’s more and more communities coming online. So I think it’s if we think of ourselves as a ripple. And we start to really ask ourselves the question of what is my role and my role might just be.

I need to work through my trauma, or I need to become, whatever it could be, a dot.

Nobody’s saying you have to go stand on the front lines of like a protest.

but you have to feel that you have to deep down, feel that that is

contributing in some way.

in whatever way it might ripple out, even in ways you might not understand. But if you feel like it’s really contributing, then that’s what it is. And that’s why your spirituality is more important than ever. Right now, I think also, I’m gonna add one little piece. Because I I recently did a podcast. Episode on this that was like, why, I don’t have, especially the person who’s very connected to nature. Why, I don’t have econes anxiety, and I do think that also, understanding the overall

Nemo will correct my words here. But the overall game of life at play, by the permeable divinities, by what is happening at a he also

at and an overall level as a cosmological level, I think, also helps

you understand that

evolution and greater complexity doesn’t always come with Kumbaya. And look how pretty everything is!

Not always. even in nature. Competition or predation or parasitism isn’t our important factors.

They’re not. Primary. Mutualisms are definitely the best, like mutually beneficial relationships. But competition and predation. And parasitism has a role, an important role.

and so don’t discard it just because it looks ugly to you.

Does it always mean that all of it, like there is a greater game at play, and what’s most important is for you to understand that game so that you can be an active player in the direction that it needs to go.

Yep.

yeah. I was going to to to describe something very, very similar to the gorilla, because

we faced a pandemic.

and after that a war

now 2 different wars close to Europe.

And from our point of view, looking at the planet, we are in front of a very big, very big shift, and every big, every time human being faced a very big shift. It was. A challenge. Was not something usually very happy to to experience.

Like, you know, we are now facing the crisis because we are changing completely the scheme

we we don’t yet understood what will be the new scheme.

but we know for sure that the

the past is completely gone. We are now completely shifting to a new.

a new world, and we believe that the work of Dhamma and all the other communities all around the world that are working to create a system that they can sustain themselves.

It’s very important to offer to this new world new solutions, something that is not yet tried in order to

found something new. We cannot go constantly, apply all the solutions because they are not working anymore.

So we believe that now is the moment of change. Looking at the history of the planet, pandemics and war are the only real aspects that really change the world.

luckily

because we are not yet so, you know, evolved in order to understand that we can change also because of the happiness we have to go. We have to pass through this crisis.

I’m not saying that I love war, and I love the pandemic and all the effects of it. But you know we have to. We have to deal

with that aspect. And we are working every day because of that. Yeah.

I love that. And I. And I think that’s so important for us to to also get into. I just wanna say one thing about that. And I think that this is. This is exactly how we weave through. Why spirituality is, is such an important aspect as opposed to maybe some forms of religion, because religions hold the status quo right religions, because they have structures because they have these ways. They’re made on purpose

to hold to contain something and to not necessarily evolve and change little slight changes. Here and there a spiritual system is much more active. A spiritual path is about constant change, about

constant stabilization and destabilization. In order to be able to grow stabilize what you’ve had. Yeah, exactly. And that’s that’s really what what we wanna push. I mean, that’s that’s even the whole path of the cuisine and everything. It’s like, really about that constant. I take action. I move stuff. Then I stabilize. Then I look at what that came out of that, and then I see what direction to go, and then I destabilize again, and I flip the paradigm, and I I play with it, and that’s

if we’re going to find new models. That’s the only way to do it.

because if you stay within what you’ve always done, you will always get what you got right. So you need to play outside of that realm. And that’s where multiple intelligences come in. That’s where you know, plant intelligence and nature spirits come in. This is where divinities

have at play, like there’s so many elements in our cosmology that allow us and human beings are very stuck in our own way of thinking. We think we’re clever, and I think we need to give ourselves permission to quiet.

as they say in biomimicry, quiet that cleverness, and allow yourself to use your spiritual ecosystem and your own divine eco like who you are from us at a soul level to and and to connect into other kinds of beings that and other human beings as well. So you know humans as well as as other kin, and then shift to to allow new parts, and I think this is why

why art is such a huge part of the Dominurian culture as well, because in the world of art as well as in the world of dreams and astral travels.

Those rules that we have for what life looks like can can be completely shifted.

and they don’t exist, and therefore you can create. And you can start to get visions of what a new, what, what the next paradigm will look like. And so we need more safe spaces, space spaces like this, like what dominos doing, what other communities are online communities like in person communities, we need safe spaces to shift out of these paradigms, to say the things that seem weird and woo

to explore our our take all of this knowledge we have, and take the rules away while keeping the knowledge, and then see what happens if we start putting it into. And this is this is why the dominance spirituality is so focused on on research groups and on experimentation, in order to give us those safe spaces to shift out of those paradigms. Because, again, that’s what the that’s what the what the world is is calling us to do.

Yes.

thank you. We are at the end of our appointment today. Speaking about spirituality, we touch so many topics, action, understanding, mission even more so. Thank you for having been with us, and thank you to it. Thanks for the thank you very much for the questions. Yes, thank you so much and great.

And you can find these and all the other episodes on Damanhur community where you can find also more information about Damanhur, our mission, and you can share, and with the the other participants. So thank you very much, and see you for next one. Con voy, everyone! Con voy.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Reconnect with Plant Wisdom, intro, and outro music by Steve Shiuli and Poinsetta from the singing life of plants. So join me to Tigrilla Gardenia and my plant collaborators next time on Reconnect with Plant Wisdom.